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<lisp123>
Josh_2: Thanks re BKNR & a few days ago
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<antonv>
anyone using gmane?
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<_death>
yes
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<antonv>
_death: how do you connect to it with TLS?
<antonv>
directly to some TLS port, or to the unencrypted NNTP port 119 and then upgrade with STARTTLS command?
<drakonis>
gmane is still around
<drakonis>
?
<_death>
hmm, I don't think I use tls with it.. mostly vanilla leafnode configuration
<antonv>
drakonis: yes, it is, but the domain is now gmane.io
<_death>
gwene is alive as well
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<antonv>
what is more mature, portable and better maintained: trivial-sockets or usocket?
<aeth>
Afaik, usocket is the most popular, but having used it, it has a few annoying limitations in TCP that in my IRC bot tests basically lead me to ping out eventually (over the course of days, usually, I think, iirc).
<aeth>
Unfortunately, one of the other popular ones depends on something called 'libfixposix' (you know, so it can run on Solaris and NetBSD and stuff), which complicates things by adding in a(n obscure) C dependency.
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<aeth>
"Returns true if there is a character immediately available from input-stream; otherwise, returns false. On a non-interactive input-stream, listen returns true except when at end of file[1]. If an end of file is encountered, listen returns false. listen is intended to be used when input-stream obtains characters from an interactive device such as a keyboard."
<aeth>
The problem being "If an end of file is encountered, listen returns false." This means you might have disconnected and usocket knows this and the stream is now an EOF, but you are still LISTENing as if you might have a connection still.
<antonv>
This should depend on the protocol. I don't know the IRC protocol, but most of the protocols define a way for communicating parties to know exactly how many bytes to read.
<aeth>
there is no READ-CHAR-NO-HANG equivalent for bytes, but if you need to do the text decoding on your end, you have to do this as bytes instead of chars
<antonv>
Like Content-Lenght or chunked encoding in HTTP
<aeth>
at least afaik portably
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<aeth>
Because LISTEN doesn't work properly for TCP but usocket relies on it, I have to write my own timeout where I do a hanging READ-BYTE to check for EOF (unless there's another way? it's non-obvious), but every now and then there's some kind of concurrency issue which eats a byte, which will eventually result in a missed ping
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<aeth>
"Reading from a stream which has been closed at the remote end signals an END-OF-FILE condition, meaning that reading from the stream and detecting that condition is the way to do it." https://usocket.common-lisp.dev/api-docs.shtml
<aeth>
is the official way to do it
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<aeth>
But reading hangs unless it's READ-CHAR-NO-HANG or guarded by LISTEN, which doesn't check for END-OF-FILE
<aeth>
This is naturally incredibly frustrating.
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<aeth>
looks like usocket is supposedly the successor to trivial-sockets according to its documentation, though. https://usocket.common-lisp.dev/
<fiddlerwoaroof>
I've been writing some code that needs to send and receive on multicast sockets and, afaict, there's no way to do this even with the no-portable sb-bsd-sockets library
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<antonv>
aeth: maybe you could chose some other approach, I don't know - a bit difficult to follow your explanation because don't know your task and maybe never done such task. Why do you need LISTEN? Are you trying some kind of async-io, where one thread handles multiple connections?
<antonv>
If you have a dedicated thread per connection, you could just use READ-CHAR, READ-SEQIEMCE, etc.
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<antonv>
In this appraoch, the only problem to deal with, as far as I can see, is some stuck remote peer, who does not send anything, but keeps the connection open - your thread will remain occupied forever. This can be approached with read timeouts. Usocket docs advertise possibility to set read timeouts on sockets (SO_RCVTIMEO).
<antonv>
I may be wrong.
<antonv>
Anyways, thank you for the response.
<antonv>
fiddlerwoaroof: thank you too.
<aeth>
antonv: it's necessarily async to some degree because you can READ-BYTE and WRITE-BYTE
<aeth>
i.e. you can receive IRC messages and send them
<antonv>
aeth: to convert bytes to characters, it's possible by wrapping the binary stream of the socket into a flexi-stream (you probably know that)
<aeth>
it's disappointing how something so simple as an IRC client isn't obviously easy to implement correctly in usocket
<fe[nl]ix>
aeth: the main reason libfixposix exists isn't to run on Solaris or NetBSD, it's to be able to wrap C macros