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<dre>
what are sly stickers?
<dre>
I'm making an addon for SLYNK to neovim
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<kagevf>
dre: check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DLdQ6yb7h8 ... it covers sly stickers ... I'm personally not a sly user, but stickers looks like a pretty useful feature
<dre>
thanks, helpful
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<neominimum>
Hi all! How does one indicate that a method specialises on an instance that is a subclass of STANDARD-CLASS. I don't know how to find the name for a class of foo #<STANDARD-CLASS FOO>. If I want to specialise on #<FOO {some-number}> Then I write (obj foo) but I don't know what the specializer should be in the former case.
<beach>
Are you looking for an EQL specializer maybe?
<beach>
The AMOP uses the preposition "to" for specialization, and I think it is good practice to follow that convention, so "a method ON a generic function specializes TO something".
<beach>
neominimum: Perhaps you can tell us what the nature of the object is that, when given to the generic function, will make the method applicable.
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<beach>
But you can find the class of any object by using CLASS-OF. And you can fine the name of that class by using CLASS-NAME.
<neominimum>
That may be what I am looking for. Okay, the object is one that is returned from say (find-class 'foo)
<beach>
Well, the class of that object is a metaclass object.
<neominimum>
The method should be applicable to all (find-class 'name) where name designates a subclass of foo
<beach>
So depending on how the class FOO was defined, it could be STANDARD-CLASS, BUILT-IN-CLASS, or some implementation-defined class.
<beach>
And you are not allowed to define a method that is applicable when given only instances of classes defined in the standard.
<beach>
So then you might have to define a different metaclass for FOO.
<neominimum>
Okay the generic function takes two parameters the first being an instance of standard-object
<neominimum>
the second being an instance of a class
<beach>
OK, but you are not allowed to define a method (defmethod bar ((x standard-object) (y standard-class)) ...) because it would be applicable when given only instances of standardized classes.
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<neominimum>
by standardized classes are you saying classes subclassed from standard-class?
<beach>
I said "standardized classes" by which I mean classes that are specified in th e standard.
<neominimum>
thanks
<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
Let's see if I can find the relevant passage...
<beach>
Oh, but wait, your generic function is your own yes?
<beach>
Then the restriction doesn't apply.
<beach>
You can do what you want with your own generic functions.
<beach>
However, it is often not useful to specialize to STANDARD-CLASS or BUILT-IN-CLASS.
<neominimum>
Yes I see that too "Defining a method for a standardized generic function ..."
<neominimum>
Yes it is my own creation, mwahahaha!
<beach>
Heh.
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<neominimum>
So, does that mean I could write (eql (find-class 'foo))? And expect it to work? Or are there constraints for eql specifiers.
<beach>
That would work.
<beach>
The restriction doesn't mention what kind of specializer is used. Only when the method is applicable. But again, on your own generic function, you can do what you want.
<beach>
And, yes, an EQL specializer is often more useful in cases like this. Especially if you don't really know who defined the class FOO.
<neominimum>
Ah yes it does work, now I just need to find one that applies to all subclasses of FOO.
<beach>
If you control the definition of FOO, another option is to define a metaclass for FOO which is typically a subclass of STANDARD-CLASS.
<beach>
Then you can specialize to that metaclass.
<neominimum>
Right, I'll give that a try. Thanks beach
<beach>
Sure.
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<gendl>
Hi, I asked this before but does anyone know how I can print a startup message in *slime-repl...* buffer upon connection?
<gendl>
I want to do this from the swank side not from slime
<_death>
I'd look into swank::*new-connection-hook*
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<gendl>
I tried adding a hook to swank:*new-connection-hook* but got no output.
<aeth>
is it going to the right *standard-output* ?
<gendl>
It's going to (connection.user-io conn)
<aeth>
anything you print could output to *slime-repl foo* or to *inferior-lisp* depending on the *standard-output*
<gendl>
where conn is the argument to the hook function
<aeth>
when you mess with threads, they mostly go to *inferior-lisp* unless you rebind *standard-output* on creation of the thread. But this is with threads, but before the SLIME REPL so it's weirder
<gendl>
I'll look into streams a bit more, thanks.
<_death>
well, it looks like those streams get set up by slime-repl.. so you may need to get a hook running afterwards..
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<_death>
having a *create-repl-hook* in swank-repl that gets run in create-repl seems to work, if a bit crude
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<gendl>
_death thanks I'll try replicating that. Then I'll come back to ask you why you feel it's crude.
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<_death>
if it gets the job done then it's ok ;)
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<gin>
(cond ((f) (g))) -- Is it possible to store the result of (f) in a variable and then pass it to g? Like (cond ((setf result (g)) (g result)). Is there another way to do this?
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<_death>
that's the usual way.. I suppose some may like anaphora (acond)
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<gin>
_death: thx!
<gin>
acond seems to bind the result to IT. what does IT stand for? the English pronoun "it"?
<_death>
yes
<pjb>
gin: (cond ((let ((r (f))) (when r (g)))) …)
<pjb>
gin: when you give only a test in a cond clause, it's result is returned: (cond (nil) (42) (t)) #| --> 42 |#
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<pjb>
s/it's/its/ of course
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<gin>
thx
<gin>
(format nil "~{~a~}" '("foo" "bar" "baz")) ; <-- works fine. but is there any format control to make this work too? (format nil "<some magic here>" "foo" "bar" "baz")
<Alfr>
gin, ~A~A~A would come to mind.
<gin>
I meant that there are arbitrary number of arguments. sorry should have mentioned that clearly in my question.
<Alfr>
gin, but that will eat all remaining arguments.
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<gin>
great thx. yes, I do want all remaining arguments to be eaten. this is perfect. thx Alfr, susam
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<aeth>
or, in general, you can replace the NIL in the FORMAT with a stream variable from WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING
<aeth>
and use multiple FORMATs or use FORMAT in a LOOP or in a DOLIST or do whatever else you want.
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<aeth>
since now the string is returned from WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING instead of from FORMAT itself
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<gendl>
_death: it is working, brilliant!
<gendl>
Now I have to figure out how to package this.
<gendl>
and whether I should be submitting an MR to the slime proj, to add that hook call there in create-repl.
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<gin>
is there a CLHS function or a popular idiom for doing this (if (plusp x) x nil)
<gin>
if nothing, I'll just use the above code
<aeth>
you could do (and (plusp x) x)
<aeth>
but this is one of those things on IRC where eventually there will be 10 different ways to do it posted
<gin>
thx
<aeth>
if you want to avoid an error it's (and (realp x) (plusp x) x)
<aeth>
(plusp will error on nonnumbers and on complex)
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<susam>
also, (when (plusp x) x)
<aeth>
no
<aeth>
WHEN is technically valid here, but is semantically for a side-effects thing
<aeth>
gives you a whole giant implicit PROGN to work with
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<White_Flame>
I'd prefer the AND version here as well
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<mathrick>
so I have (check-type condition simple-condition) in my code, and it signals this: The value of CONDITION is SIMPLE-ERROR, which is not of type SIMPLE-CONDITION.
<mathrick>
but: (subtypep 'simple-error 'simple-condition) => T
<mathrick>
what gives?
<mathrick>
same with ETYPECASE
<mathrick>
ooooh, I see, that's because I'm actually looking at the *symbol* 'SIMPLE-ERROR, not the type
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<gin>
if one thread does (setf a 10) and another thread does (setf a 20) without any synchronization, is it possible that we will have a corrupt value in a? that is, a value that is neither 10 nor 20?
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<hayley>
No one has put forward a memory model for Common Lisp yet.
<hayley>
But, based on what implementations and instruction sets I've poked at, the answer is probably no.
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<hayley>
The only place corruption can occur is when threads need to update more than one word (e.g. element of a complex double floats array, hash table entry) or less than one byte (e.g. bit in a bit vector).
<gin>
thx hayley!
<White_Flame>
the language makes no claim as to what might happen; it's a combination of implementatio & hardware that happens to affect it
<mathrick>
AFAIK, the language doesn't make a single mention of threading or concurrency anywhere, so it's entirely outside of the spec