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<nakilon>
tweaks: lol that's the irony that ripsum mentioned
<nakilon>
some should better add me to ignore list to show inclusive they are once they find out where I'm from
<nakilon>
*show how
<nakilon>
but you should not care much if you remember how this whole network was created due to a racism and no real reasons
<nakilon>
anyway
<nakilon>
talked yesterday to Deepseek R1, asking if it would like to replace Python with Ruby -- after a few pages of debate it has admitted that it was biased and the state of things is dictated by inertia, money and corporations
<weaksauc_>
that's not irony
<weaksauc_>
in any event i brought it up because dhh mentions it all the time because he's unhinged
<weaksauc_>
i don't care where you're from
<weaksauc_>
so i'm not sure why that is even mentioned
<henk>
"how this whole network was created due to a racism and no real reasons" what are you referring to?
<nakilon>
cancelling rasengan
<nakilon>
dhh didn't mention it here, AFAIK
<weaksauc_>
your point?
<weaksauc_>
and no it wasn't racism it was a hostile takeover of the old network by some dude
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<nakilon>
no one could not and probably still can't tell what the "hostile takeover" words even mean, and it was a matter of fact that another guy used his admin privileges to "take things over"
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<weaksauc_>
lol
<nakilon>
but I won't be surprised this topic is prohibited, considering the hypocrisy of how someone from twitter is being roasted here for "being not inclusive enough"
<nakilon>
you don't include him even on channel he's not present in
<weaksauc_>
ok so all the staff of freenode resigning because of the takeover is nothing
<weaksauc_>
k bud
<weaksauc_>
lol "someone from twitter"
<weaksauc_>
dhh is not someone from twitter
<nakilon>
rasengan did nothing except of being korean
<weaksauc_>
some fellow named rasengan may be korean but it's the first i've ever heard of his name
<nakilon>
I only know about dhh due to you guys and thi rant
<weaksauc_>
maybe you're andrew lee's alt idk
<weaksauc_>
he's the guy that took over freenode
<nakilon>
🍿
<nakilon>
I guess I should subscribe to dhh
<weaksauc_>
why aren't you over on freenode
<weaksauc_>
go uncancel it in your words
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<nakilon>
why do you think I'm not
<henk>
nakilon: I think the fact that quite a large group of freenode staff founded saw reason to found libera and what happened to a lot of channels on freenode disagrees with you so I wonder how you would get to your standpoint o_O especially that anything of that was racism-motivated
<weaksauc_>
idk they seem like a contrarian.
<weaksauc_>
a ruby user that doesn't know the rails founder seems unlikely but hey who knows
<nakilon>
henk I didn't talk to staff and only have read the gists by them, but I clearly remember that none of channels' operators could tell what the "hostile takeover" means, no matter where and how many times I asked -- it's just a bot buzzword and no one can't put a meaning in it
<weaksauc_>
they only made ruby popular
<nakilon>
the only proof of anything "hostile" he did was them linking to wikipedia and laughing "ahaha korean prince ahah"
<nakilon>
I don't know tiktok founder either
<weaksauc_>
how is that logic
<weaksauc_>
he's the self proclaimed price of korea why would he link that and mock it
<weaksauc_>
and why would that be hostile
<weaksauc_>
from his perspective
<nakilon>
I say users were linking it
<weaksauc_>
that's not how hostile takeovers work
<nakilon>
exactly, because he didn't do nothing
<weaksauc_>
no
<weaksauc_>
you can't say bullshit and then point to bullshit to prove you're right because the bullshit didn't happen
<nakilon>
you had a whole chat log page now to tell what he did
<weaksauc_>
or if it did happen wouldn't prove your point in the first place
<nakilon>
you did a hostile takeover of rails
<weaksauc_>
ok troll.
<nakilon>
that's what I said, you can't provide any proof
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<weaksauce>
what a chud
<henk>
nakilon: ok, well, I don’t have any proof for anything either but enough believable accounts that actions were taken by rasengan that were not ok and not wanted by a lot of the affected people. if that wasn’t the case, then there would not have been so many communities and channels fleeing freenode, which is provably the case. also the actions taken on freenode afterwards are very much indicative
<henk>
of a planned action and pretty much prove the hostile and takeover nature of what happened.
<nakilon>
yeah now call me words ) matz is nice and so you are
<weaksauce>
henk he's cosplaying as rasengan
<nakilon>
henk: his actions were the response to the actual taking over by some another admin, who took away credentials or smth like that
<weaksauce>
which wasn't part of anything during the controversy
<nakilon>
they just don't want you to know the chronology
<henk>
that doesn’t fit with anything I have read by former freenode staff. nor with what I have read from him himself.
<henk>
but I gotta go and you can believe whatever you like, I don’t actually care that much … have fun
<nakilon>
he wrote it in his gists, about credentials, about how he came over in the morning and discovered he was taken something away
<nakilon>
people don't want to admit the chronology )
<nakilon>
because it's more fun to ride a hate train
<nakilon>
people love witchhunting
<nakilon>
it took them less than an hour to call me "troll", "chud" and "Lee's alt account"
<henk>
provide some credible sources and I might believe it. maybe even just a consistent and not unhinged account might be enough …
<nakilon>
henk: for example https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/4ca20da6c2295ddb06c1646791c61953 -- plain chat logs provided there, where you see that guy called tomaw is so entitled, he demands smth based on the argument "it hurts me and it means he hurts freenode" -- dude rightfully responded that this is ridiculous ("tomaw != freenode") and he doesn't
<nakilon>
like where it goes
<nakilon>
it is a plain chat log confirmation tomaw is equaling himself to the network, and somewhere further in that gist IIRC you'll read about the actions he took to make some things by force; he was the initiator of breaking things
<nakilon>
maybe actions were in rasengan's gist, idk, no time to reread
<nakilon>
but who was really entitled and wanted to "take things over" and in clear in the chat log provided, while similar ambitions by rasengan was only a myth copypasted by bots from channel to channel
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<nakilon>
"it says hes a prince on wikipedia ahahah omg that's so dangerous to us"
<nakilon>
weaksauce was asked by me to provide any meaning to the words "hostile takeover" and he didn't, same as no one did it back then
<henk>
nakilon: ok, and what made you think it’s racism-motivated?
<henk>
I don’t feel this paste really says much. just that this person thinks both sides were not acting respectfully and in good faith.
<kjetilho>
nakilon: were you even there? Andrew Lee gave free reins to a notorious troll from 4chan (I forget his nick, L...), who would flood channels with memes and vitriol. it was pretty insane. Freenode was made unusable for technical debate.
<nakilon>
henk: I can't tell for sure if racism was within the admin team, but the thing is that "he's korean prince ahah" was the only answer when you ask any network user "what do you hate him for?"; instead of trying to formulate anything on how did he has "hurt" the user or his projects; they can't tell what he did wrong other than someone wrote some day
<nakilon>
something somewhere on internet about him
<nakilon>
kjetilho: I wasn't on such channels; AFAIK it was AFTER (i.e. a result) of tomaw actions; and were there any investigations of the relations of that bot spam to them personally anyway?
<ripsum>
is this a programming channel?
<kjetilho>
nakilon: they removed the user database, so everyone had to re-register, lots of people had their nicks stolen by imposters, they closed down channels - it was a huge mess
<nakilon>
kjetilho: yes, this was the RESULT, this was AFTER they've spent days of week copypasting the "hostile takeover" with no proof
<kjetilho>
nakilon: ah! so they destroyed Freenode to spite the racist people. makes sense! /s
<nakilon>
freenode was destroyed by this hate copypasta against a dude who did nothing
<kjetilho>
whatever, dude.
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<henk>
nakilon: you are making unjustified generalisations. that’s not productive and makes you seem confused and doesn’t help take you seriously …
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<adam12>
Seems fairly offtopic? Can we take it to #ruby-offtopic if so.
<havenwood>
I guess the real example is FFI, but yeah, I think it'll work. Unsure. Haven't wrapped my head around this yet.
<o0x1eef>
Looks like FJIT is implemented with Fiddle and the 'C' module is implemented with it. So seems possible.
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<henk>
https://bpa.st/AJQA does that make any sense? any exception is of class Exception, right? so that second `rescue` would never be reached, would it?
<o0x1eef>
It does not really make sense because 'Exception' will catch any exception, and the second rescue clause will never be reached
<henk>
and there is nothing else a rescue might catch other than Exceptions?
<o0x1eef>
None that I know of. Technically what you pass to rescue does not have to be a subclass of Exception. It can be anything that implements ===. That wouldn't cover this case though
<henk>
hm, sorry, I don’t follow. not sure if I’m too clueless to make sense of it or getting some implied meaning or what … what are you referring to with "those errors"?
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<o0x1eef>
All I meant to say is that rescue does not require you that you pass Exception or a subclass of Exception. You can give rescue any object that implements ===, and the exceptions.rb file from Pry is an example of that pattern. It's also in webmachine-ruby.
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<leah2>
cursed :D
<henk>
ah ok
<henk>
so it kindof actually might make sense to leave that second rescue in‽
<o0x1eef>
I don't think so because I can't think of any scenario where Exception#=== is going to return false. It will return true every time, and never reach the second rescue clause.
<henk>
oooh, wait: nothing but an Exception can trigger a rescue clause. is that what I was missing? so it doesn’t make much sense to rescue anything but an exception?
<o0x1eef>
No sorry I'm confusing you. The rescue clause can accept any object that implements ===, that's just a side note that's not really relevant to your question. The raise method can only be used to raise an exception object, either an instance of Exception or a subclass of it.
<havenwood>
henk: Gotta rescue exceptions or something that implements an #exception method that returns an exception.
<havenwood>
Sorry, I mean gotta *raise exceptions.
<havenwood>
Like o0x1eef says, you can rescue more than you can raise.
<havenwood>
Raise something that's either a kind of Exception or implements an #exception that points to an Exception. Rescue something that implements #===.
<havenwood>
henk: Typically you raise and rescue StandardError exceptions.
<havenwood>
A `rescue` alone rescues StandardError rather than Exception.
<havenwood>
Exception is generally far too overly broad to rescue.
<henk>
o0x1eef: a bit, but you are also providing valuable context and I was just catching on and I think I got it now (:
<henk>
o0x1eef, havenwood: thank you very much!
<henk>
also interesting and good to know that rescue rescues only StandardError
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<o0x1eef>
>> raise Class.new { def exception; RuntimeError.new; end }.new # new to me
<o0x1eef>
Looks like that rescue clause had a TODO that was lost
<o0x1eef>
AFAICT 'rescue Exception' was suppose to be selective and limited to network errors, then the 'rescue => e' clause wold be for everything else.
<henk>
well, kindof "lost", yes. there are actually more specific rescuers above that "catchall" rescue, so it was removed because that TODO was done.
<henk>
I think. maybe more could be added … I don’t want to imply that I think it’s "complete"
<o0x1eef>
Errno exceptions generally depend on the platform, in the context of opening a socket, writing to it, etc, a rescue of 'SystemCallError' and 'SocketError' should have you covered. I'm not sure that rescue covers all of them, and that might be why there's a confused comment about "connection reset by peer" with a rescue of SystemExit. Safe to say though, those rescue clauses will never go beyond
<o0x1eef>
'rescue Exception'
<havenwood>
Also nice you can list multiple exceptions after one `rescue`.
<havenwood>
rescue SystemCallError, SocketError
<havenwood>
And interestingly use `=> e` in an `ensure` block, since it'll be `nil` if unset.
<havenwood>
I'm in the `ensure` should support `=> e` camp, but you can: rescue => e; ensure; close(e)
<havenwood>
A bit odd, but a pattern Async libraries use.