<heat>
i will probably tragically pass away if i ever get to doing ptrace()
<zid>
I'd ask for half your stuff but it's probably all portugoose stuff
<heat>
half of what stuff
<zid>
when you die
<heat>
yeah you're getting all my pt_PT keyboards bud
<zid>
but sadly it'd be three sea clams, a footballer dakimakura and a goose
<nikolar>
onyx the rolling distro
<zid>
nikolar is awake
<zid>
and hasn't ONCE asked me to cyber today
<nikolar>
i've been busy ok
<zid>
'busy'
<heat>
nikolar: versions are for losers
<nikolar>
indeed
<zid>
to both
<heat>
stable versioning soyjack vs rolling release chad
<zid>
but if you don't use version
<zid>
you can't have onyx 1.0 "pengis" and onyx 3.11 "linux"
<nikolar>
oh don't worry, he always has onyx "linux"
<nikolar>
just drop the version
<zid>
every version is linux, fair
<nikolar>
exactly
<heat>
onyx 2.6 would be linux of course
<nikolar>
as if it isn't already
<Ermine>
linux but c++
<d1rg3_>
(eww)
<Ermine>
ewwn't
<nikolar>
very eww
<heat>
i'm writing things in C now
<heat>
actual C
<heat>
the queen's C
<zid>
did you compile it with
<zid>
cc1
<d1rg3_>
:-)
<heat>
yes
<zid>
amaze
<nikolar>
let me know when you can compile the whole thing with just gcc
<zid>
delete g++ and prove it
<Ermine>
queen's c = c89?
<heat>
you can't compile the whole thing with just gcc
<heat>
Ermine: Kernel C
<d1rg3_>
(formal verification is a thing, how useful? not sure guys)
<heat>
READ_ONCE
<zid>
anything pre c23 is queen's C, anything after is king's
<nikolar>
lel
<zid>
do I read
<zid>
That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime v20 o
<zid>
or
<Ermine>
nikolar: i think you'll be more excited when the whole thing gets buildable with tcc
<zid>
usb 2.0
<nikolar>
usb 2.0 of course
<zid>
slime it is then
<nikolar>
you're welcome
<nikolar>
Ermine: even better
<nikolar>
you could build the whole thing in seconds
<heat>
it will never be buildable with tcc
<heat>
> you could build the whole thing in seconds
<heat>
good news, you already can
<zid>
I can't
<zid>
it takes forever to install all the weird tools you used
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<heat>
it is what it is
<heat>
one day i'll figure out how to properly use gnu make at scale
<heat>
i think i know how-ish, but it'll take some effort
<zid>
%.o : %.c
<zid>
there ya go
<zid>
make at scale
<heat>
hah cute
<heat>
geist's thing does recursive includes
<heat>
kbuild does recursive make
<zid>
configure options control which set of .o make which executables
<zid>
done
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<d1rg3_>
(y'all can finally laugh at my biggest achievement of last month, i'm finally able to convert numbers between bases using `bc`)
<d1rg3_>
:D
<d1rg3_>
now i don't have to type what's 123 in hex on google everytime
<d1rg3_>
i also understood long division
<kof673>
obase=16 ; if you change ibase then that applies to subsequent ibase and obase commands too :D
<heat>
eww bc
<d1rg3_>
kof673: that was an important quirk, yeah
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<d1rg3_>
heat: paper or python? what do you use :-)
<heat>
google
<heat>
sometimes python
<heat>
google seems to not want to convert really large numbers and hex math there is weird
<heat>
python otoh has bignum ints so hex(-8) is -0x8
<heat>
which is infuriating
<d1rg3_>
like 128 bit stuff?
<heat>
no, stuff approaching 64-bit will do
<d1rg3_>
i see
<d1rg3_>
bc is ugly but handy
<the_oz>
wolfram alpha for the bigger stuff because google can't be trusted
<the_oz>
I'd use python in console but eh
<kof673>
older shells didn't have built-in arithmetic..............so bc was there :D
<kof673>
i belive whatever bourne "standards" exist does not require it, unsure if posix mandates it for bourne
<d1rg3_>
netbsd still uses csh?
<kof673>
i just meant csh, no idea about csh
<kof673>
freebsd it was default "recently" but i think they changed it. recent == last 20 years
<kof673>
or tcsh, whatever variant
<kof673>
*i just mean bourne sh, no idea about csh
<d1rg3_>
oh yeah, got it
<kof673>
ksh, pdksh i believe have arithmetic
<kof673>
pdksh i believe is fairly portable even to old stuff, and public domain to boot IIRC, hence "pd"
<heat>
dash is also quite portable
<the_oz>
freebsd has csh cargo cultism about not changing for root shell
<the_oz>
"never ever ever use a statically compiled rescue shell because you could end up shit creek without a paddle!"
<kof673>
as i said the other day, whatever tcp stuff, vi, csh...........the venn diagram of people who think bill joy is the devil for all of these, may be small, but the people who think he is the devil for at least one of these...
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<d1rg3_>
lol
<heat>
the_oz: you mean !statically compiled shell?
<heat>
because that makes some sense
<the_oz>
nah I'm saying the cargo cultism is nonsensical even when you're like guys relax is a statically compiled rescue shell
<the_oz>
they'll still freak out
<heat>
ah ok
<heat>
ikr what if bill joy needs to use your computer for a little while
<heat>
rms-style
<the_oz>
I'd like to interject your shell usage a moment
<d1rg3_>
why did the MONOLITHIC kernel win over the microkernels? linus's gospel or something else?
<d1rg3_>
(genuine question, guys(
<d1rg3_>
(imma noob)
<heat>
monolithic fast and pragmatic
<kof673>
i thought that was going to be a chicken + road question and was disappointed to read the rest :/
<nikolar>
because fast and simpler to work with
<heat>
the paradigm now (on relevant monolithic kerne systems) is either "push everything to a userspace process" or "push everything up to the kernel", depending on the task
<heat>
but it works well
<d1rg3_>
i see, thanx guys:3
<heat>
for completeness' sake, an example for the first would be "userspace networking stack (kernel bypass)" and for the second "eBPF"
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<Ermine>
termux has runit
<Ermine>
so you basically have an init system there
<heat>
not systemd, so sad
<Ermine>
systemd wants to be pid 1
<Ermine>
ask android folks to adopt systemd
<heat>
literally
<heat>
1984
<Ermine>
no
<Ermine>
as it happens, runit is just sufficient for termux
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<nikolar>
termux is using runit?
<nikolar>
i didn't know it had any kind of daemon supervision
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<heat>
ugh im having issues booting on riscv again :/
<sortie>
yo heat
<sortie>
how goes temp
<heat>
how goes what
<sortie>
the warm place
<heat>
what warm place
<sortie>
/tmp
<heat>
it goes
<sortie>
heat: I may just have built Sortix 1.3.0-dev how are you
<heat>
what
<heat>
new release just dropped?
<sortie>
Yep-ish-but-not-really. I simulated test releases of Sortix 1.1.0, 1.1.1, 1.2.0, and began dev work on 1.3.0-dev
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<heat>
bro's skipping 1.1 AND 1.2
<sortie>
All in isolated git, isolated release directory with separate signing keys, to test if the infrastructure can actually handle a release, and if the upgrade mechanisms actually work across large distances
<sortie>
Legit wrote a script to simulate a bunch of release branches and commits
<nikolar>
heat: what riscv thing are you targeting
<heat>
qemu virt
<heat>
i dont actually have a board, what am i, a gazillionaire?
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<nikolar>
Lol they are cheap though
<nikolar>
And you're employed
<Ermine>
nikolar is a gazillionaire for sure
<nikolar>
Obviously
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<heat>
i only start on the 15th
<heat>
next month i'll have all sorts of SBCs
<heat>
anyway i just got gcc to compile a memcpy that calls memcpy
<heat>
i forgor how to solve this without -fno-builtin
<heat>
meh i'll set fno-builtin for the whole libk
<geist>
-fno-builtin that is, keeps it from recursing
<geist>
since in general builtin is good for performance, etc
<heat>
yeah... i could swear i had that enabled
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<nikolar>
heat: all sorts: arm and riscv
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<heat>
alright, riscv port fixed
<heat>
opensbi seems to act weird
<Ermine>
heat: congrats on getting employed btw
<heat>
as in it keeps flip flopping around between ELF and !ELF or whatever, kinda weird
<heat>
Ermine: thanks
<sortie>
heat: I had so many cursed issues back in the day when it turned out I didn't compile libk with all the right flags, especially I forgot -mno-red-zone
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<heat>
i could've sworn was doing it right
<heat>
i was definitely aware of the issue at least
<heat>
weird.
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<nikolar>
heat: let me know once you get a sparc sbc
<heat>
lol
<nikolar>
indeed
<ring0_starr>
you can make one with the guts from a tadpole computing laptop
<ring0_starr>
remember those??
<nikolar>
if you find me one
<nikolar>
that doesn't cost a kidney and a half
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<ring0_starr>
they used to be so cheap back when i was actively junk collecting
<ring0_starr>
man, tech is fucked
<ring0_starr>
hope yall are happy with the state of things
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<kof673>
i don't think that is a tech thing, everything has that :D MERCHANT, n. One engaged in a commercial pursuit. A commercial pursuit is one in which the thing pursued is a dollar.
<kof673>
the crackhead will break in your house and pawn your stuff .......not a tech thing......