klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<gog> hello
<heat> hai
<mcrod> hi
<gog> hi mcrod
<puck> kinda funny how osdev wiki stuffs end up being relevant for a completely different platform, just because everyone uses the same chips anyways
<gog> hi heat
<mcrod> hi gog
<gog> hi puck
<gog> hi hihihihih
<gog> mellow greetings
<puck> tho it doesn't help with the subtleties of interrupts and horrible horrible pseudo-dma
<gog> are there other platforms that use the i8259
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<gog> i think there are actually
<heat> define platform
<puck> this is custom interrupts logic but they use the standard PS/2, floppy, and some standard-ish SCSI controller interface
<heat> arch or platform in a literal sense?
<puck> heat: yes.
<gog> not necessarily arch
<heat> that doesn't help!
<gog> like pc98 or whatever
<heat> i8259 has a device tree schema, so it has been used in non-PC x86
<gog> that's a distinct platform to ibm pc
<puck> idk, "the only platform ever publicly-ish released for its arch" counts as both imo :p
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<gog> a platform is any loosely-related software-compatible computer system
<gog> what is software-compatibility?
<gog> shut up and stop asking me
<puck> also this emulator is, annoyngliy, non-deterministic
<puck> because dual-core arch :(
<gog> what is it?
<puck> AT&T Hobbit
<gog> hahaha
<gog> "but what about second cpu"
<puck> tbf you don't have to use two cpus for the hobbit, but the only known platform with sorta public info about it (BeOS) *requires* 2 cores
<gog> BeOS best os
<heat> BestOS
<gog> heat
<bnchs> OS-9 best os nine
<bnchs> cirno approved
<gog> cirno's favorite operating system
<heat> gog
<gog> i don't feel good :(
<heat> what's wrong
<bnchs> i like to think nobody fucking knows what OS-9 is
<bnchs> gog: awww, i'm sorry you're ill :(
<gog> i have an illness and i wrote bad code'o
<heat> sadg
<heat> why is it bad code
<gog> because it doesn't work and i PR'd it
<gog> thinking it worked
<zid> My illness is that I just watch youtube instead
<zid> of writing the code that doesn't work
<gog> and i'm going to get fired from my job
<gog> and i'm going to get deported+
<zid> yes
<heat> damn don say that
<zid> send you back to the jungle
<bnchs> gog: damn :(
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<zid> become monke
<gog> ok i'm not going to get fired probably
<bnchs> if i got deported, i would die
<gog> but damn i need to get my shit together
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<heat> fucking up is okay
<heat> normalize fucking up
<gog> no
<heat> yes
<bnchs> fucking up too much is not okay
<zid> normalize heat fucking up.
<bnchs> that's how you get windows 98
<gog> normalize spiraling into depression every time you make mistakes
<heat> shut up benches that's a bad take
<zid> normalize your own feelings if inadequacy (Done, 10/10, A+)
<bnchs> heat: oh, sorry, i'm gonna hide in my hole
<zid> You are.. successful at that.. so you werne't inadequate at it.. now I'm confused
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<sakasama> gog: I'm already expert at that.
<bnchs> sakasama: me too
<bnchs> i call myself a retard when i do mistakes
<sakasama> In fact, I don't even need to make mistakes.
<gog> maybe i need to go back to therapy
<averymt> it's good to be in therapy even (and sometimes especially) if you don't think you need it
<zid> I think I'd win at therapy
<bnchs> averymt: "if you don't think you need it"
<bnchs> i think it's not good in that case... for me
<bnchs> it's a moneyhole
<zid> Convince the therapist that life is meaningless and you just sort of coast along doing what you want until you die and none of this matters
<bnchs> this guy sucks the money off of my wallet
<averymt> then find a different one
<bnchs> averymt: they all suck money off of my wallet
<bnchs> so i'm only in therapy IF I REALLY REALLY want to
<zid> Are there league tables for beating therarpists
<averymt> so does food, though, does that mean you should stop eating?
<bnchs> zid: i lie to therapists
<bnchs> averymt: i only go to therapy to get a piece of paper
<bnchs> that says i'm okay
<bnchs> but except for that case
<bnchs> they're a huge waste of money to me
<bnchs> also bad take, food is WAY WAAAY cheaper than a therapist
<gog> i don't think i'm really ok
<zid> have you considered having a little cry
<averymt> it's still most definitely a nontrivial amount
<bnchs> ^
<zid> then feeling much better afterwards
<zid> that's what I do
<gog> i did and it didn't help
<zid> Hmm
<heat> gog, do u want a hug?
<sakasama> bnchs: Maybe, at least until you need to go to a therapist so you can stop overeating.
<bnchs> sakasama: hey HEY!! you don't bring that shit up
<zid> cup of tea for sure then
<bnchs> i-i mean
<zid> break out the big guns
<bnchs> well.. that's just my coping
<averymt> sakasama it's also cheaper than undereating :P
<zid> undereating is super cheap, I'm good at it
<zid> it's like hypermiling but for people
<bnchs> i'm good at overeating
<bnchs> averymt: i'm still not going to a therapist, they're fucking annoying
<bnchs> i've been forced to therapy a few times
* sakasama licks honey off a spoon.
<bnchs> but maybe for some people, they're good
<averymt> mmm, sakasama, that sounds really good
<bnchs> i luv honey <3
<sakasama> Therapy is good for people who don't have an aptitude for introspection.
<zid> reinforcement of good behavior is good regardless
<zid> like having a cone on after surgery, but for thoughts
<bnchs> i'm like.. i'm gonna undereat so my therapist can overeat my money
<averymt> sakasama introspection can only go so far, you have to know what to actually do with that information
<averymt> positive coping strategies don't come naturally, and have to be taught.
<bnchs> i have my own coping ways
<gog> i am neither coping nor seething
<bnchs> "seethe. to suffer violent internal excitement"
<bnchs> i am SO FUCKING EXCITED!
<gog> the existence of copenhagen implies the existence of seethenhagen
<bnchs> city of crying wojaks
<zid> or failhenhagen
<bnchs> and soyjaks alike
<sakasama> averymt: Nothing comes naturally. I've talked with a few therapists though and there's not much they can provide me in terms of coping strategies because I already do most of the things they suggest.
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<gog> sorry for saying a thing and turning the channel into venting
<zid> that's your silly talking
<zid> I 100% plan to come here and cry if needed
* moon-child pets zid
* bnchs pets zid too
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<sakasama> You shouldn't do that. He might poop on your bed.
<averymt> that's why you take him to the petting zoo
<bnchs> sakasama: ho<<'"dq
<bnchs> aaaa, backspace is up the enter key
<bnchs> fucking pinky finger
<sakasama> Is that valid J? I'm a bit rusty.
<bnchs> i meant to say
<bnchs> how's your clone of yourself thing
<sakasama> I won't clone myself: that would double the torment.
<bnchs> you're still cloning your brain
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<sakasama> No. I'm making an expert system to augment my brain with.
<bnchs> yes
<bnchs> a clone of your brain with enhancements
<bnchs> wait no no
<bnchs> jrkjzmktjzmtzj
<heat> ok
<sakasama> That's at least something I'm good at.
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<heat> the worst part of touching my old code is that I need to live with my old self
<heat> this sucks
<bnchs> heat: i like to live with my old self
<bnchs> even though they're bad
<bnchs> i wanna be their friend ^^
<sakasama> Why not rage against them and seek their destruction?
<bnchs> sakasama: i would rather give them a big kiss on the cheeks and help them become nice like me
<bnchs> and therefore apart of me :3
<sakasama> Oh. I don't want anyone to become like me.
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<heat> ok i have la57 support now
<heat> yay
<moon-child> but why
<heat> 256TiB aint enough
<heat> that and efi
<moon-child> oh it can give you addresses with bits 52:48 significant? Annoying
<zid> 256TiB is just barely enough for me
<bslsk05> ​edk2.groups.io: devel@edk2.groups.io | Side effects of enabling PML5 in EFI
<zid> "Firmware chooses to use 5-level paging when the platform using this firmware claims to boot 5-level paging OS only."
<zid> good solution, if it works, how does it work?
<heat> i know, very handwavy, an intel fw classic
<zid> ah so the usual, "it doesn't"
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<zid> tbh though what I said probably still stands, if the firmware installed is one modern enough to provoke a pml5 immune response, the kernel will be new enough to handle it
<zid> so you could probably just whitelist linux and windows using simple heuristics
<zid> and add an [auto][enabled][disabled] for it
<zid> like I have for 80 other cpu options
<zid> I can disable stupid things like prefetching
<heat> there's no way you can disable it like that
<zid> £5 says pml5 is disableable in bios on machines that have support for it
<heat> that shit is too central and should affect the memory map and the whole paging structures
<heat> i've seen the toggle man, it's a build time toggle
<zid> I've been able to toggle a hole at 15-16MB, force disable the A20, all sorts of stuff
<zid> disable smp
<zid> why not pml5
<moon-child> you can turn off prefetching at runtime too, can't you?
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<heat> oh wow they made that garbage toggle dynamic
<heat> jeeeeeeeeeeeesus
<heat> what a bad idea
<zid> disable it on syscall entry
<heat> fwiw there's no way to get firmware settings from flash before having to decide, *I THINK*
* heat knocks on wood
<zid> heat can you revive my mobo for me
<heat> no
<bnchs> heat can you help me sleep
<zid> It fails to get its firmware settings out of flash
<zid> (I think it gives up before then, even)
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<heat> zid, gosh, anything between the flash chip(s) and the cpu may be fucked
<zid> yup :D
<heat> if you have no more output, it's very freakin hard to find that out
<zid> It updates the seven segs
<zid> nearly instantly, and gives up
<zid> so dead flash or dead me or something idk
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<heat> E
<zid> E
<sakasama> Estradiol.
<kazinsal> part of this complete programming experience
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<kof123> "With a sufficient number of users of an API, it does not matter what you promise in the contract: all observable behaviors of your system will be depended on by somebody." -- hyrum's law re: pml5
<kof123> anything not locked down will be stolen
<kof123> abstract for other contracts/APIs :D
<kof123> so, just keep the users under the buggy amount and all is well
<kof123> conway's law even: some ppl will be limited to what is observable versus a hypothetical ideal world/code (and vice-versa, other ppl will be trapped in perfection)
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<bslsk05> ​'Polish National Team Member rages falling off his Chair' by Nikolay Kartsev (00:00:21)
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<gog> hi
* vdamewood gives gog a fishy
<Ermine> gog: hi, may I pet you
* gog chomp fishy
<gog> Ermine: yes
* Ermine pets gog
* gog prr
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<vdamewood> kitty go prrr
<gog> i fixed my code and i feel a little better now
<gog> but i'm still ill
<gog> i might go home early again
<mjg> fix it better
<mjg> maybe that will help
<vdamewood> gog: Have you tried debugging yourself?
<gog> i don't have the most recent symbol file
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<gog> meowe
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<heat> mjg, mjg mjg mjg mjg
<heat> can you confirm that freebsd la57 is broken in qemu? i may look into it if it is
<heat> since i have no real hw that does limit things, but, erm, you shouldn't need real hardware to test adding a new paging level to yer code
<heat> (tlb, etc all remains the same)
<heat> i know you may want to be careful when handing out the new ranges to userspace, cuz pointer tagging and all that. linux doesn't hand it out by default (I think you need an extra flag for mmap, or just MAP_FIXED)
<heat> mjg, or ofc if you have access to your swanky amazon machines and those have la57 👀
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<mjg> heat: i don't know and can't be arsed to check
<mjg> heat: sorry mate
<heat> fucker
<heat> give me ssh to hw and I'll check
<mjg> lol
<mjg> can't do that as is mate
<heat> SAD
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<gog> sad
<heat> i offer my amazink skillz and Big FreeBSD does not want my help smh my head
<mjg> ay lmao
<mcrod> hi
<gog> hi mcrod
<mcrod> hi gog
<heat> mjg, from the commit msg disabling it it does sound like it generally works but some random hw broke with it
<heat> and instead of debugging they just "fuggit, lets disable it, we'll take a look Later(tm)"
<mjg> that was the one time someone used it with hw which supports the feature afaics
<mjg> so i would not say it is in the state of mostly works
<heat> hmm fuggers
<heat> the patches to onyx Just Work
<mjg> :d
<mjg> onyx > freebsd confirmed
<heat> granted, I did not test on real hardware, but fucking hell this has nothing to do with real hardware
<heat> its ... just an extra paging level
<heat> bud, that has been confirmed a long time ago
<mjg> i'm trying to convince netflix to migrate to it
<heat> yes yes good option filesystem very good writing to filesystem very good
<heat> tcp no bug promise
<mjg> netflix reads from filesystems
<mjg> does not wrire to them
<heat> yes yes slab allocator go vrooooooooom fast percpu good
<mjg> do you support reading
<heat> yes
<mjg> speaking of testing, i wrote a patch with some knobs
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<mjg> people said one recommendec config works, the rest is crap
<heat> what patch for what thing
<mjg> i postd a new patch without knobs, which acts as if said config was there
<mjg> now guy claims this patch regresses over the previous one + said config
<mjg> :X
<mjg> ye i did not see that coming
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<heat> see, he does benchmark, he just takes it too... literally
<gog> mark my bench
<heat> gymrat gog back at it again
<gog> i didn't today, i'm ill
<gog> my arms are lookin p good still tho
<heat> sad
<heat> happy
<gog> yes
<gog> rapid cycling like a good bipolar girl
<mjg> you lift?
<heat> my knee has been slightly fucked but I had leg day today
<gog> yes i lift
<gog> i'm not v strong tho
<heat> the best part about leg day is when your crotch feels slightly fucked for a day
<lav> yes you are
<gog> i can bench 50kg max that's not very much
<gog> 55 if i really push it
<heat> that's very decent
<lav> that's more than i can i think idk i don't even lift, sis
<heat> do u even lift sis
<mjg> what's your weight
<heat> also none of u helped me pick out new strings so im upset, send me 20 usd dollar for un-upset
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* mjg sends heat a cryptozoo coin
<heat> sorry I only use bitconnect
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<mjg> that's too bad
* lav throws at ball of yarn at heat
<gog> mjg: 70
<zid> 50kg is a lot of benches
<mjg> do you crossfit?
<gog> no, i'm doing ordinary HIIT
<gog> cardio, resistance, cardio, stretching
<gog> typical routine
<zid> I also do HIIT, I walk downstairs to go pee sometimes.
<mjg> lifehack: pee into a bottle
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<mcrod> i hate writing shell scripts
<nikolar> what happened
<heat> how much do you bench mjg
<heat> and i don't mean will-it-scale
<mjg> i already told you
<mjg> postkres
<mjg> actual workloadz
<mjg> that kind of shite
<mcrod> nikolar: nothing bad happened, more or less just the syntax is foreign to me
<nikolar> you get used to it
<nikolar> it's not so bdd
<nikolar> s/bdd/bad
<mcrod> essentially, I'm trying to write a shell script to download and compile a toolchain
<mcrod> with fancy auto-detection like "hey, you at least need a host compiler to compile this thing."
<mjg> there is prior art in the area
<mjg> build.sh from netbsd
<mcrod> hm, i see
<zid> there's a build script like that for gcc itself at least
<Ermine> Does EFI handle ctrl-alt-delete?
<mcrod> also, it's impressive that CLion doesn't support using an external clang-format
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<mcrod> if you generate a style config with the clang-format from homebrew, CLion will die with it
<heat> Ermine, no
<mcrod> i have decided that clion is a great IDE for anyone who doesn't need a CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE or to care about clang-format
<heat> Ermine, actually... OVMF does seem to
<heat> funny
<Ermine> Fw on my pad does it too apparently
<heat> i wonder if its the app doing it... EFI does not have interrupts
<heat> only a single interrupt is handled, the timer
<Ermine> Ah, nvmd, dumb me
<Ermine> helios got the control by that moment
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<heat> hmm, yes, but efi definitely has some logic for CAD to reset
<heat> cute and hacky
<zid> how did you find my middle name
<heat> Ermine, why the sudden interest in efi?
<Ermine> I just was surprised that cad worked
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<mcrod> ok, question
<mcrod> I assume even with git lfs it's a pipe dream to try and store a toolchain into a git repository
<bnchs> mcrod: yes because github will hold your large files ransom
<mcrod> read: I've never had to do this
<bnchs> with git lfs
<mcrod> define "ransom" here
<puck> you get 1GB of bandwidth per month, max
<puck> (unless you pay extra)
<bnchs> mcrod: will not allow anyone access the file unless you pay them, if you reach a limit
<mcrod> well I do have a storage pack
<bnchs> a bandwdith limit
<mcrod> that's not a problem
<mcrod> basically, I want to be able to git clone everything but non-LFS stuff, and then selectively clone a toolchain based upon one's host system (manually)
<puck> ..you're willing to pay $5/mo for 50GB of data usage?
<mcrod> it was a gift card.
<puck> yeah don't use lfs for that
<bnchs> ^
<bnchs> use a file server
<heat> you can use github build artifacts
<bnchs> do not use github's storage pack at all costs
<mcrod> I was just going to say in the readme "if your host system is 'x', download x-toolchain.tar.gz, extract it, ..."
<bnchs> it won't work if your repo gets too popular
<bnchs> you'll have to pay github more and more lol
<heat> every single one of my github actions publishes a built toolchain, and uses a cache to make sure I don't need to rebuild it
<bnchs> and that even includes people downloading it multiple times
<heat> and a file server won't? lol
<mcrod> indeed
<puck> how big is a toolchain? 100MB?
<heat> the gang pays 1TB in outgress costs
<bnchs> heat: fileservers have fairer deals
<heat> sorry, egress or whatever the fuck they call it
<heat> bullSHIT
<mcrod> puck: it contains LLVM, gcc, ninja, and CMake
<puck> okay so 200MB
<heat> that's not 200MB
<heat> its a heck of a lot more
<heat> even compressed
<puck> i'm going with 200 because it makes maths easier
<mcrod> however, I'm also rapidly discovering that LLVM's "building a distribution of LLVM" page is garbage, but it's all I have
<heat> a zstd compressed LLVM for me is already 200MB
<mcrod> also, I refuse to believe Docker is an answer
<mcrod> thou shalt not mention Docker here
<puck> okay so if it's 400MiB, that means it costs roughly 4 cents for every person that downloads your project
<heat> plus gcc should hit ~300, ninja and cmake should add what, maybe 50?
<mcrod> ninja is 200KB
<mcrod> cmake is uh, let's see
<heat> but cmake isn't. although a lot of it is text files right?
<mcrod> yeah
<mcrod> cmake is 56MB
<heat> may compress nicely
<heat> hmm
<mcrod> and that's after running strip on the binaries
<heat> but compressed?
<mcrod> compressed no idea
<mcrod> hang on
<heat> well, there you go
<heat> so you'll probably have around 25% of that compressed
<mcrod> well, I get all that
<mcrod> the problem is I actually don't know what's the "right way" to go about toolchain deployment in relation to git
<heat> there's no right away
<heat> pay for le egress, make them build (give them a nice script?), or publish github artifacts like I do
<puck> mcrod: scripts necessary to build the toolchain from scratch, plus possibly a link to a precompiled version
<bslsk05> ​github.com: x86: Add new memset implementation · heatd/Onyx@70c7b12 · GitHub
<mcrod> yeah, I was going to prefer a precompiled version
<heat> mjg, btw new memset!!!!!!!!!! although I just copied my memcpy and memset'd it
<mcrod> only because I can't possibly see why anyone would _want_ to compile everything to get exactly the same thing as the precompiled version
<mcrod> especially when it comes to LLVM
<heat> paranoia
<heat> also if you don't support their system
<heat> quick fuckin tip: don't try to support every system
<mcrod> well if I don't support it, then that sucks
<puck> mcrod: i don't have a /usr/lib/libc.so.6
<mcrod> don't worry, I'm definitely not a "it needs to work on a PDP-11" guy
<heat> i build toolchains for linux and macOS. even macos is too much since I have no way to feasibly test except for CI itself
<mcrod> puck: why not
<heat> cuz puck might have a /usr/lib64/libc.so.6
<puck> mcrod: (uhh. /lib/ld-linux.so.2. i also do not have a /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1)
<puck> (etc)
<heat> or musl yeah
<mcrod> i mean, on certain systems I assume existence of glibc for example
<puck> i have glibc!
<puck> just not There
<heat> but why do you give a shit?
<mcrod> I don't really
<puck> anyways, you want a script to compile the toolchain anyways
<heat> just support GNU SLASH LINUX, maybe mac, and if you're a real weirdo, windows
<puck> because otherwise you'll forget how you did it last time :p
<puck> heat: i have a gnu/linux os!
<puck> heat: just that my dynamic linker is at unless you hard /nix/store/1nyg1fvhpz8bx3vn3r9f18zhra2rpbx9-glibc-2.37-8/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
<puck> uhh
<mcrod> yeah, linux/mac/windows are the only host systems I care about
<heat> i know
<puck> s/unless you hard //
<heat> i'm hard
<heat> heheheheehehehehehe
<mcrod> puck: a script would be nice, yes
<lav> hi hard i'm parent
<mcrod> on windows I'd have no idea how to go about that, maybe a powershell thing
<mcrod> but at least for now I'll fuck with Linux
<puck> heat: well then it'll be at /nix/store/xnk2z26fqy86xahiz3q797dzqx96sidk-glibc-2.37-8/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
<heat> https://github.com/heatd/toolchains/tree/master its like i've trodden your path mcrod
<bslsk05> ​github.com: GitHub - heatd/toolchains: Toolchain utilities/patches for the Onyx operating system
<heat> even supporting just linux is hard
<heat> heck, supporting and patching fucking toolchains is hard!!!!!!
<mcrod> yeaaaaah, this is what I was afraid of
<heat> and i just ship llvm and gcc!
<heat> i need to update and rebase all muh patches for LLVM 16 and GCC 13
<mcrod> also, an unrelated note: i swear IDEs do not take kindly to people doing these things
<puck> compile a clangd too
<heat> oh yeah i have a custom clangd and clang-format and fucking everything!
<mcrod> well on the clangd front, on most IDEs you can't set per project paths to that type of granularity
<heat> but if your IDE sucks your IDE sucks
<heat> use vscode mofo
<heat> it Just Works
<mcrod> e.g. "project X is using clangd located at x"
<mcrod> on most IDEs it is always "specify the path, and you'll have to change it again when you switch to another project."
<puck> apparently clangd can actually query the driver
<heat> which driver?
<mcrod> point being, it definitely seems like the drive is "use docker"
<mcrod> and I keep having to say no
<puck> heat: the argv[0] in the compile_commands
<mcrod> because, I refuse to install something to spin up a VM to compile sometimes.
<mcrod> er, something*
<heat> puck, i've never had that work IIRC
<heat> 1) clangd with gcc gets kind of confused
<heat> 2) not-my-clangd with my own llvm also doesn't work
<mcrod> (also, I want to learn how to do these things because dependency management is awful.)
<heat> (unknown --target, etc)
<mcrod> heat: so your github actions builds a toolchain on CI and then you just roll with it?
<heat> define roll
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Release toolchain: Fix stuff. · heatd/Onyx · GitHub
<heat> no, i dont do releases, that was a hacky one-off
<mcrod> ah
<heat> see the action I linked
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<heat> each commit publishes a bunch of toolchain tarballs (which may or may not be identical to the previous commit's)
<mcrod> hm, I see
<heat> the CI build itself uses those toolchains, but you as a hooman (i assume) manually download them
<heat> i bet this could be scriptable but nah not me lol not on my watch
<heat> (fetching them automagically)
<mcrod> so if I were to clone Onyx
<heat> ... you'd need to download a prebuilt or build one
<mcrod> I get that
<heat> for which I provide a nice script
<mcrod> but I don't even see the download link for a prebuilt
<mcrod> unless I am blind
<heat> its in the action I linked
<heat> ignore those fucking warnings I need to fix One Day
<mcrod> yes, I'm looking at https://github.com/heatd/Onyx/actions/runs/4889008654 and I look in vain for "download artifact" and the like
<heat> dood just click em
<mcrod> i am.
<heat> ctrl+f onyx-llvm-linux, click the thing
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<mcrod> OH
<mcrod> okay I see
<heat> every time a file relevant for a toolchain's build changes, it rebuilds. until then it just uses the cached one (if its available)
<mcrod> right, I was just going to have something that says "ok you can use toolchain v1.0 for project versions 1, 2, 3" etc
<gog> khello
<mcrod> hi
<lav> gello
<bnchs> hi
<bnchs> can i learn rust in 10 seconds?
<lav> yes
<bnchs> how
<heat> bnchs, rust borrow checker slice Box<> unsafe {} fuck!(); cargo carog raog carog carog caroo is there acrate for that can we rerwrite it in rost
<bnchs> aaaaaa
<lav> cargo install left-pad
<bnchs> rust devs trying to install a dependency for a simple fucking function
<bnchs> 😎
<heat> virgin C "code writers" vs chad rust cargo users
<mcrod> bnchs: that's not limited to rust
<bnchs> mcrod: i know
<bnchs> node.js also applys
<bslsk05> ​libraries.io: left-pad 1.0.1 on Cargo - Libraries.io
<lav> https://lib.rs/crates/pad_left there's two of them even
<bslsk05> ​lib.rs: pad_left — Rust library // Lib.rs
<bnchs> rust and node.js programs will just be 10000 modules thrown together
<heat> kernel people: a
<heat> rost progamer: https://lib.rs/crates/aarch64
<bslsk05> ​lib.rs: aarch64 — Rust HW library // Lib.rs
<bnchs> lol, i wrote my own red-black tree rather than using GNU libavl
<mcrod> at work, there was talk about moving to rust
<mcrod> but I'm pretty glad that it didn't go anywhere
<bnchs> i'm comfy in C
<bnchs> it stands for Comfy
<mcrod> it's C99 here using IAR
<mcrod> probably the most annoying compiler I've ever had to deal with
<heat> using GNU libavl has the same effects of drinking bleach
<bnchs> heat: the joke is
<bnchs> GNU libavl is well-documented
<bnchs> and annotated
<mcrod> unfortunately, we can't move to gcc/clang because the MCU on two boards aren't supported by either compiler
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<heat> the joke is that i've never seen anyone use GNU libavl
<bnchs> heat: that's because it was meant as a docuemntation on how to write your own binary trees
<bnchs> like seriously, the documentation for it annotates everything that the code does
<heat> there are whole books on that shit
<heat> i know clrs is a horrible read but it's all there
<heat> and looking at GPLv3 code for documentation has that legally dubious smell I so desperately crave in the morning
<mcrod> (bonus points if anyone can guess what MCU isn't supported by gcc)
<heat> ia64
<heat> the fuckers
<mcrod> no
<mcrod> two more guesses
<heat> idunno
<mcrod> stm8
<mcrod> not really sure why you'd want to use stm8, when you can use a super low cost stm32C0 series MCU, but.
<heat> cortex a53 go brrrrrrrrr
<mcrod> also heat I'm looking through your llvm patch
<bnchs> mcrod: CPU or MPU or MCU
<heat> you can skip the sanitizers bit
<heat> that's the hard mode
<mcrod> MCU
<mcrod> i had no idea llvm-xray was a thing, and it's not listed on one of the pages I was looking at
<bslsk05> ​llvm.org: LLVM Command Guide — LLVM 17.0.0git documentation
<mcrod> and xray is nowhere to be found.
<mcrod> nor are like 3 others you're referencing
<heat> do not underestimate the junk LLVM can add to their project
<mcrod> I would say so far the documentation by far has been a nightmare to sift through
<heat> you know what's great? when they don't have any so you need to refer to GNU docs for LLVM
<mcrod> you're installing a stripped toolchain distribution, wherein the strip portion isn't discussed _anywhere_ on the build a distribution page
<heat> you know what's also fan-fucking-tastic? figuring out what goat you need to sacrifice to get a working LLVM build
<gog> the cutest one
<gog> they're very evil
<heat> there are like 4 or 5 "how to build LLVM" pages
<heat> all of them are incomplete or outdated
<mcrod> https://llvm.org/docs/BuildingADistribution.html is what I was looking at
<bslsk05> ​llvm.org: Building a Distribution of LLVM — LLVM 17.0.0git documentation
<heat> the "How to cross compile LLVM" uses an armhf gcc 4.4 target or so
<heat> sorry, 4.7! my bad!
<heat> safe to say it doesn't fucking work
<kof123> yeah, those crazy pdp-11 people
<kof123> https://github.com/PDP-10/kcc/ i built that, but have not tested
<bslsk05> ​PDP-10/kcc - Kok Chen's C compiler for PDP-10 (0 forks/7 stargazers)
<kof123> compuserve apparently ran tops-10/20 or something ...
<kof123> ironically, it actually seems to need a 64-bit type, because needs a type with at least 36 bits for some masking/shifting stuff
<gog> i like thsi compiler
<immibis> mcrod: PIC12F508?
<immibis> (this processor has 25 bytes of RAM)
<mcrod> no, it's an STM8
<mcrod> oh my
<immibis> I remember that because I pulled the least powerful processor out of my box of assorted processors to make something. I'd ordered an assortment of processors to evaluate for a thing but never got around to actually evaluating them or doing that thing; I picked one that definitely wouldn't be good enough for anything else to do a different thing.
<gog> that's enough memory for anybody
<immibis> then programmed it with completely DIY hardware and software
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<heat> gog, 25 whole numbers to remember is a hard task
<gog> i can't even remember one
<heat> i can do like 3
<lav> 7
<lav> you're welcome
<GeDaMo> The trick is to combine the 25 small numbers into one really big number :|
<zid> I'm going to start a new project, I'll need 10 good men. There's about 260 of us here, so we're about 6 good men short.
<gog> do i count as a good man
<gog> (i hope not)
<sakasama> I am but a flower.
<zid> gog: man as in mankind, but yes
<gog> i'm a cat tho
<lav> meow
<zid> sleeping a lot and owning catears on a headband don't *actually* make you a cat, sorry to have you find out this way
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<lav> get him!!
<sakasama> zid is cruel. :(
<gog> bruh moment
<zid> If that's what made you a cat, I'd be a housebrick
<zid> In every way except physical, I am a housebrick. *awoo*
<gog> housebricks don't awoo
<zid> see, I have the physical bit all wrong :(
<puck> <zid> sleeping a lot and owning catears on a headband don't *actually* make you a cat, sorry to have you find out this way <- it's actually the meowing and not giving a shit,
<heat> you dont even need to meow
<heat> you don't give a shit? cat
<lav> meeee
<gog> cats are aspirational beings
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<zid> I'm a housecatbrick now? :o
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<sakasama> You'll be a good housebrick.
<zid> Wrong tense
* moon-child pets zid
<sakasama> A housecatbrick is something that comes out the back end of a cat. You've got to work your way up.
<zid> petting a housebrick.. lightly tossing it through a window?
<sakasama> Sandblasting, perhaps?
<zid> That's grooming
<sakasama> Hmm... how about vigorously stepping on it?
<zid> That's a sex act
<zid> rock and wall torture
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<sakasama> Sorry, I don't know much about bsd culture.
<zid> we should ask heat
<sakasama> I'm glad we have experts here.
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<zid> Just don't cough when bits of plaster fall on you and you won't get fou-
<zid> I mean, weird
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<sham1> This is why you should change the stuff in the litterbox, so people don't just start peeing up the walls
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<mcrod> hi
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