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<Reinhilde>
Griwes: it's more being transformed into shit, than dying outright
<Griwes>
well, you keep being vague, so I'm going to file this under 'old man yelling at cloud' and move on
<Reinhilde>
anyway, this is what it's about: an exchange in which the maintainer of hardenedbsd learns that everything linux touches turns to shite. https://bsd.network/@lattera/110175816633326907
<bslsk05>
Note by Shawn Webb: "@mrhamel I can count on zero fingers how many times I've run into ZFS issues prior to Linux's takeover of the OpenZFS project. Over the past year, there have been two major issues."
<Griwes>
lol anecdata
<Reinhilde>
that's how they all slag off data they don't like: "oh it's just anecdootdoots"
<zid`>
Turns out if you actually use something
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<Griwes>
vOv I've been running root-on-zfs on linux for the past... 2.5 years? and on my nas, and the only issues I've had was that the initrd scripts often assume that you're not running root-on-zfs and a friend of mine has to fix that lol
<Griwes>
and yes, that's also anecdata
<gog>
all linux suffers from being linux
<Griwes>
but that person is just spewing accusations without providing a single bit of actual proof or analysis that shows that the code is, as they claim, of so much worse quality than before
<Griwes>
and also "Linux's takeover" is, frankly, a very silly way to describe the move to support linux as a first class citizen in a project that taints the kernel when you load its module with a gpl-incompatible license
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<Reinhilde>
requires more monitering
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<geist>
gog: linux is suffering
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<gog>
me too
<gog>
(from success)
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<ChadGPT>
i decided to ask chatgpt genuine questions, of course got bs
<ChadGPT>
> what is the fastest way to implement memset without simd instructions on amd64 cpus
<ChadGPT>
> The fastest way to implement memset without SIMD instructions on AMD64 CPUs is to use the optimized assembly code that is provided by the compiler.
<ChadGPT>
thanks mate
<zid`>
can confirm portugal doesn't exist btw, wordle.pt isn't even registered, much less parked, much less in use
<ChadGPT>
rephrased that
<ChadGPT>
> what is the fastest memset implementation without simd instructions on amd64 cpus
<ChadGPT>
got a toy memset with sse2
<zid`>
because that's what it managed to steal from stackoverflow
<ChadGPT>
right
<zid`>
while(c--) *s++ = *d+=; is the fastest btw
<zid`>
go nuts
<ChadGPT>
fasterestest
<zid`>
Any slowness detected is a tooling error
<ChadGPT>
> what is the fastest memset implementation without sse instructions on amd64 cpus
<ChadGPT>
i might have broken it, no response
<zid`>
amd64 don't even make cpus
<ChadGPT>
btw the memset it copied is also crap, simd or not
<zid`>
>from stackoverflow
<zid`>
I already mentioned it was crap
<ChadGPT>
right
<ChadGPT>
generated on the second try, this time indeed no sse in it
<ChadGPT>
however, it generated an 8-byte loop which is utter trash
<heat>
cry
<heat>
is chatgpt pessimal????
<ChadGPT>
> does netbsd scale better than solaris in a multicore setting
<ChadGPT>
asking tough shit here
<zid`>
chatgpt should just tell you to ask fuz
<zid`>
that's what I'd do
<ChadGPT>
> Both NetBSD and Solaris are highly scalable and performant operating systems that can handle high levels of concurrency on multicore systems. The choice between them may depend on other factors, such as ease of use, availability of software, and specific hardware support.
<ChadGPT>
lmao
<ChadGPT>
asked netbsd + openbsd
<ChadGPT>
> As with the comparison between NetBSD and Solaris, it is difficult to make a definitive statement about which operating system, NetBSD or OpenBSD, scales better in a multicore setting.
<ChadGPT>
[snip]
<ChadGPT>
> That being said, both NetBSD and OpenBSD are designed to be highly scalable and performant on multicore systems.
<ChadGPT>
tada
<ChadGPT>
not even the interwebz think openbsd scales, so who knows where this shit came from
<heat>
"I'm sorry, but I cannot provide information on individuals that may have a negative connotation or could be considered defamatory or libelous. It is important to avoid spreading false or unverified information that could harm someone's reputation. If you have concerns or information about someone engaging in illegal or unethical behavior, it is best to report it to the appropriate authorities or seek professional guidance on how to handle the
<heat>
situation."
<heat>
:(
<zid`>
so it was the latter then
<zid`>
noted sexual deviant
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<ChadGPT>
chatgpt keeps giving answers which sound like a grifter
<ChadGPT>
for real
<GeDaMo>
Condensed humanity :|
<zid`>
stochastically correct
<zid`>
the only kind of correct that chatgpt is capable of
<kazinsal>
bot can't get me a mommy, a shameful bot
<heat>
ChadGPT, did u see my funny openbsd bash i sent u
<GeDaMo>
That would be a different kind of bot :P
<ChadGPT>
no fink so
<heat>
<heat> if runtime.GOOS == targets.OpenBSD {
<heat>
<heat> parallelism = 1
<heat>
<heat> }
<heat>
<heat> // Avoids too much concurrency on OpenBSD which can't handle this much.
<heat>
this is legitimately code in syzkaller's build dawg
<zid`>
kazinsal: just keep sending red superchats to nina
<zid`>
like normal
<ChadGPT>
heat: very appropriate
<zid`>
<kazinsal> shit, how did he know!?
<ChadGPT>
> The overhead of zeroing 16 bytes of memory on an Ice Lake CPU will depend on several factors, such as the specific CPU model, the amount of memory being zeroed
<bslsk05>
www.vice.com: 'It's Hurting Like Hell': AI Companion Users Are In Crisis, Reporting Sudden Sexual Rejection
<heat>
ChadGPT, syzkaller's build will spawn $parallelism go builds, which then branch off and also spawn more threads and processes. funny build OOM-killed me a bunch a times
<heat>
their estimates for parallelism also suck. they go by memory size, but it clearly isn't up to date
<zid`>
// Typical systems have 256MiB of memory
<zid`>
is accurate for openbsd
<zid`>
nobody wastes a good machine on it
<heat>
go's a cute language, i kind of like it
<ChadGPT>
you have a botched reference point
<ChadGPT>
c++'n shit
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<zid`>
It's like recommendations
<zid`>
"If you liked C++, you'll love Go!"
<heat>
go has objectively aesthetic code
<zid`>
"If you like being kicked in the balls, you'll love this new spanking machine!"
<ChadGPT>
hehe
<zid`>
but for programming languages
<ChadGPT>
> how can you kill a zombie process on linux
<ChadGPT>
> A zombie process is a process that has completed execution but still has an entry in the process table.
<ChadGPT>
> On Linux, you can use the kill command with a signal of 9 (SIGKILL) to remove the zombie process from the process table.
<ChadGPT>
:]]
<ChadGPT>
i specifically asked because there are accepted SO answers claiming you can just send a signal to a zombie and it will disappear
<kazinsal>
more like a zombie mommy process amirite
<kazinsal>
amirite
* kazinsal
dies
<heat>
freebsd? more like stupidbdsm
* heat
lives
<zid`>
can we swap that around
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<ChadGPT>
lmao
<ChadGPT>
> is the xchg instruction with a memory operand expensive on amd64
<ChadGPT>
> Therefore, while the xchg instruction with a memory operand may be slightly slower than the same instruction with a register operand, the exact performance impact may depend on the specific hardware and software context.
<ChadGPT>
no clue that xchg with a memory operand has an implied lock prefix
<gog>
hi
<heat>
why do you keep asking it things you know it doesn't know about
<heat>
hi gorg
<ChadGPT>
fwiw i had only seen fuckw^Wwebdevs praising chatgpt
<ChadGPT>
heat: i got hit with a bunch of videos on youtube claiming chatgpt is liek programmer replacement
<gog>
that's fair we are fuckwits
<gog>
i speak for all web devs
<gog>
i am the web dev spokeswoman
<ChadGPT>
heat: and/or how to use it to write majority of the code for you
<heat>
webdevs don't know C
<gog>
i don't either
<heat>
is that so goggles
<gog>
yes
<ChadGPT>
heat: techniclaly it could have known this bit though
<ChadGPT>
it is in the manual
<gog>
but also this ai hype is hilarious to me because the llm's can't reason about the code they're spitting out and anybody who uses it to write code with an uncritical eye is going to be in for unwanted surprises
<ChadGPT>
ye copyint from chatgpt is the new copying from SO
<heat>
but chatgpt is a language model thingy, it doesn't know shit
<gog>
yes
<ChadGPT>
massage it a little bit, now it compiles, ship
<ChadGPT>
heat: see my previous remark
<gog>
that's the thing i keep emphasizing everytime somebody asks me if i'm going to use it to try to write code
<kazinsal>
osdev: *arguing about dumb shit
<ChadGPT>
i would genuinely be afraid
<ChadGPT>
kazinsal: hey, first day after the holidays
<kazinsal>
me: "gog: mommy?"
<ChadGPT>
you do that or you respond to email
<ChadGPT>
and i'mn ot responding to email
<gog>
i responded to an email from a scooter company who charged my company card twice for rides i didn't take
<gog>
and now i'm trying to understand what changes to this partner api i need to implement because their changelong doesn't show what they changed lmao
<heat>
you don't need cld so i'm relatively annoyed
<ChadGPT>
cld is slow as shit
<kazinsal>
ChadGPT: ir is 3am in UTC-7 and I am still hooched up
<ChadGPT>
for real
<ChadGPT>
you would think it would be gobbled up like a nop, but no
<heat>
are eflags changes all slow or what
<zid`>
everything old and crunchy is slow
<ChadGPT>
definitely not *all*
<gog>
is there any circumstnace in the c x86 abi where direction would be set? idgi
<kazinsal>
spinlooping between 0x90 and 0xmommy
<gog>
across a function call
<gog>
fishy imo
<ChadGPT>
gog: no, but in this context it makes sense
<bslsk05>
github.com: Quake/gnu.txt at master · id-Software/Quake · GitHub
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<zid`>
The question is mainly whether I am allowed to show you bits of a gnu project without the licence files, in snippet form
<zid`>
gnu poo ell 2
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<mrvn>
zid`: in what context? Fair use covers a bunch of cases that negate any license.
<mrvn>
and how many? You can't cut a project down into 10 lines snippets and then say you never saw the whole thing.
<mrvn>
also: legally or morally?
<FireFly>
presumably same reasoning as quoting an excerpt from a book or whatever else applies, so basically fair use concerns I guess (but obvious IANAL etc)
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<zid`>
Fair use doesn't apply to me making a book from unattributed copy pasting of 'less than a paragraph at a time' or whatever though
<zid`>
to further that comparison
<heat>
fair use is hard and copyright is hard and complicated
<heat>
i've been truly thinking about relicensing all my shit gplv2
<heat>
mainly because I got in this for the fun and not the lawyering
<zid`>
I'm relicencing gplv2 when they pay for a licence
<zid`>
who the fuck licences things for free
<heat>
so not being able to implement RCU and whatever just because IB-fucking-M told me not too... yeah it sucks balls
<zid`>
sw patents are illegal in portugal
<heat>
isn't the problem that your software becomes kind-of-illegal in places that do enforce patents on it?
<zid`>
how is that your problem
<heat>
it sucks
<zid`>
for who?
<zid`>
not you
<zid`>
just don't update your github on your american holiday I guess
<zid`>
gitlab is dutch apparently, if that helps :P
<zid`>
one of those SArl tax scams that steam uses
<heat>
yeeeeeeeeeeehaw fuck the taxes
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<mrvn>
gplv2 doesn't have a patent clause, that's v3.
<mrvn>
and I don't believe whatever any license says changes anything about patent issues.
<mrvn>
"Firefox just prevented this site from opening 187 popups" What is the thinking there? I open 1 add pop-up the user will just ignore it out of disinterest for my product. I open 10 he will notice it but still think "nah". open 20 he will get annoyed. Open 50 he will be really angry. But aroud 150 he will overflow into loving it and go buy it?
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<zid`>
my favourite tax scam is being portuguese
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<heat>
zid`, bruv if you're foreign you can come here and pay like half the taxes normal people pay for a good couple of years
<gog>
i pay so much in taxes
<heat>
come to portug
<gog>
k
<heat>
good weather, less taxes for some years, me
<heat>
all positives
<heat>
nice people (except me)
<gog>
true true
<gog>
my portuguese co-workers are very nice so i believe it
<Ermine>
gog: may I pet you
<gog>
yes
<heat>
gognix kernel
<gog>
i will never write a nix
<gog>
you cannot make me reimplement unix
<heat>
watch me
<heat>
i'm your boss, i'll make you reimplement unix and you'll like it
<bslsk05>
'YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!' by thenoiboi (00:00:02)
<heat>
why u screem
<heat>
ChadGPT, "64-bit linux(4) ABI support was added for saving CPU floating point state across signal delivery. 0b82c544de58, 20d601714206"
<heat>
wtf?
<ChadGPT>
it's a lol entry
<ChadGPT>
what is meant here is that thit was bogus and now probably is not
<heat>
how did nothing ever break?
<ChadGPT>
who said it did not
<heat>
does anyone use the linux emul?
<ChadGPT>
breakge is how the problem was foud
<ChadGPT>
signal delivery however is not *as* frequent as you think
<ChadGPT>
let alone unlucky enough to fuck up simd
<ChadGPT>
afair it was crapping out when benching openssl
<ChadGPT>
i used linux emul for years and never had any issues with this bit fwiw
<nortti>
in my attempts to get sortix running on pentium II I did a build that didn't save any floating point registers. it worked surprisingly without glitches, even when I had two games running at the same time
<heat>
anything xorg abuses signals afaik
<ChadGPT>
for what?
<nortti>
*didn't save any floating point state when doing a context switch
<heat>
idk, i just know it does
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<heat>
although I guess you don't run xorg under linux emul
<ChadGPT>
there is sigwnch
<ChadGPT>
but it's liek a noop by default
<heat>
do yall need help with this shit
<heat>
only getting vDSO support on linux in 2023 is kind of serious
<ChadGPT>
i thought that happenedyears ago
<ChadGPT>
did chatgpt give you the dates
<ChadGPT>
why the fuck are you evening reeading the release notes
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<heat>
either i'm a closeted freebsd user, or lwn posted the freebsd release
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<ChadGPT>
lol
<ChadGPT>
15+ years ago there was a funny joke btw
<ChadGPT>
there were probably bogus results posted by fbsd geezer claiming it beats linu
<ChadGPT>
x
<ChadGPT>
so linux folk posted an april 1st message saying there is no choice but migrate lkml.org to freebsd
<heat>
then on april 2nd they migrated lkml.org to openbsd?
<bslsk05>
www.shlomifish.org: Welcome to Gentoo is Rice, the Volume goes to 11 here.
<geist>
to be honest i've met exactly 0 red hat people, but i generally assumed it's folks that were forced to use it because of some work
<ChadGPT>
geist: majority is genuinely incompetent
<gog>
ahhh the good old days
<heat>
oh cmon
<ChadGPT>
heat: do i need to remind you of the squid bz
<heat>
idc
<heat>
most red hat people i've seen around do really good work
<ChadGPT>
heat: that was about 110% of idiocy norm
<ChadGPT>
as in usual stuff is not *that* bad, but still below usability line
<ChadGPT>
gog: i remember giving people shit for using gentoo back when i was 22
<ChadGPT>
gog: good times indeed!
<heat>
gentoo sux
<gog>
i used to use gentoo
<gog>
i can't be bothered these days i have a life now
<heat>
but now you use MANJARO SO I FUCKING HATE YOU
<gog>
join the hater queue
<ChadGPT>
don't you have a fastr computer to reocmpile
<gog>
we're serving haterade for refreshments
<heat>
SORRY, I'D LIKE TO HATE ON YOU FURTHER, BUT YOU'RE DDOS'ING THE AUR
<gog>
lmfao yeah
<gog>
manjaro devs are a menace
<ChadGPT>
i don't know, maybe web browsers caught up in compilation time overhad
<ChadGPT>
so you still install the freshly built package only to find there is a security update
<gog>
yeahhhh
<gog>
not about that life anymore
<gog>
i'm no longer a skinny nerd in my windowless basement
<ChadGPT>
you got fat?
<gog>
i'm a musuclar nerd in my office that is all windows
<heat>
ChadGPT, anyway, I have no idea who you're talking about here (RHEL distro people, fedora people) but the folks involved in doing FOSS work are really good, in my experience
<gog>
i did but i got skinny again before getting musculed
<ChadGPT>
heat: what do you think about a senior developer who does not know what a file descriptor is
<gog>
file... descriptor?
<ChadGPT>
heat: doing userspace stuff for fedora
<gog>
ok enough i have to go now
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<heat>
he's bad at his job if he's writing C or sh, he's okay if he's writing something else
<ChadGPT>
he is doing c
<heat>
that's kind of worrying
<heat>
how senior is senior here?
<heat>
like the old senior "20 YoE" or current senior "3 YoE"
<ChadGPT>
how about this guy: emacs was acting up with some memory limit not working, so his idea was to wrap malloc() with a func which would read /proc/self/maps to find out memory usage
<ChadGPT>
bonus: he did it with fopen() which mallocs on its own
<ChadGPT>
the code obviously hung, he had no idea why and asked me
<ChadGPT>
senior as in having senior in the job title
<heat>
on the other hand, they hire really key people (mingo, david hildebrand, roland back in the day, you, etc)
<ChadGPT>
i think i exlpained there is a massive skillgap, where ~80% (or ~70% if you are generous) of the staff is straight up worthless
<ChadGPT>
the top is indeed top notch, but that's a mininuscule percentage
<heat>
honestly I think you're exaggerating a bit
<ChadGPT>
nope
<ChadGPT>
red hat intentionally built offices in places were it does not have to compete for talent
<ChadGPT>
for the most part they throw cheap bodies at problems
<heat>
what do you think of suse?
<ChadGPT>
i don't know the realities over there
<Ermine>
And those people are basically defining linux?
<ChadGPT>
the lullers are not really dcision makers, but they do negatively impact the state of the ecosystem
<ChadGPT>
with the never ending stream of shit changes
<ChadGPT>
heat: here is a funny example i just remembered
<ChadGPT>
dude pushed a patch upstream to fix a problem with supposedly missing /dev/null in some chroot-like environment
<ChadGPT>
the patch was to pre-open /dev/null before chrooting
<ChadGPT>
this could not be right, so i had a look what's going on
<ChadGPT>
and found this: they chroot + exec, the code before exec makes sure to open /dev/null for 1/2/3
<ChadGPT>
... except it adds the O_CLOEXEC flag so it disappears
<heat>
sgtm
<ChadGPT>
from git log some fucking knedlink was adding the flag to all open et al calls and this was a mindless victim
<ChadGPT>
and so on
<ChadGPT>
all self-induced bullshit papered over
<ChadGPT>
so no, heat, i don't think i'm exagggerating. it's breakage all over. perhaps it would help to note there is plenty of internal code
<ChadGPT>
which is SO BAD
<ChadGPT>
heat: here is my litmus test: is malloc a syscall? guess how many people writing c code knew
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<bslsk05>
web.archive.org: nethack.xd.cm - public NetHack server
<gog>
yes
<klange>
i suggest animating the rotation of the rainbow
<klange>
I am deeply disappointed to report that while you can assign the rotation from a variable, it will not keyframe animate in Firefox...
<gog>
dang
<klange>
You can animate background-position, and you can animate the transform on a div that covers the whole background and rotate _that_... :thinking:
<gog>
i do have a div that covers the whole background
<gog>
:thinking:
<klange>
yeah but it's the container for the text, so if you tranform it, you transform the text, and that's just silly
<gog>
hmmm
<gog>
i tried with a statically positioned div outside of the background div but i couldn't get it to work right
<gog>
i'm turning #osdev into #webdesign
<gog>
sorry
<moon-child>
what's wrong with using a gif like xd.cm
<klange>
gifs don't scale to ridiculous screen sizes
<gog>
i'm really just playing with layout and css rn
<gog>
see how much i can do without images
<gog>
i understand not enough about this and it makes me not do good designs at work lol
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<gog>
design isn't my job but i'd like to be a little more competent here