klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<potatojs> hey guys
<gog> hi
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<potatojs> hey gog, how's it going
<gog> getting drowsy
<potatojs> get tucked into bed then
<potatojs> nothing is better than a good damn sleep
<sakasama> gog: That may be a sign you're approaching consciousness.
<heat> a standard link of vmlinux does 3 links just to get the symbols into the binary
<heat> this is blursed
<gog> link with me
<heat> first link links normally, then a .map file is processed and it generates a provisory .S (that gets compiled into a .o) with the kallsyms info, then it relinks, then it checks what addresses changed, regens the .S, compiles, relinks, and now the addresses should be identical
<heat> as I said, highly blursed
<heat> if only there was a cheeky linker option for this...
<heat> doing this with LTO must be super painful
<heat> also gog thats super kinky
<kof123> well, that sounds like something i would do, to seek something generic and not linker-specific. so yes, a little cursed
<kof123> is elf mandated?
<heat> mandated for what?
<kof123> vmlinux
<heat> this solution? no, they use .map files AFAIK
<jimbzy> Done with it already?
<zid> I need to go back and do a few things for achis
<zid> but that's game beaten at level 7
<zid> (squall's starting level)
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<potatojs> noice
<kof123> "We have to convert the test.elf file generated by linker to a MIDI file that" </soundart chameleon, used a dsp>
<potatojs> btw zid, i fixed the issue, the error code in ah was unknown disk or something, turns out , the disktype number that qemu gave was 0 , so i replaced it with 80h( apperently 80h and 0h treat the indexing differently?) and the sectors got loaded nicely, only 9 sectors tho, cus my img file was 5kb
<zid> It did work for me though, even despite the error
<potatojs> the sectors got loaded?
<zid> yes
<zid> [04:10] <zid> anyway, hlt before int 13h: 0x10000: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 ...
<zid> [04:10] <zid> hlt after int 13h: 0x10000: 0xe8 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x00 0xeb 0xfe 0x55 0x89 0xe5
<zid> [04:11] <zid> (and that's precisely what's at 0x200 in my .img)
<potatojs> ohhh
<potatojs> but you still got the error
<potatojs> very odd
<zid> Yea,
<zid> carry flag just seems unreliable for some reason in seabios
<zid> I think most things use the other interface though, the extended one
<potatojs> i see
<zid> 0x42 in AH
<zid> okay booted it back up and fixed the issue
<zid> your disk image didn't have 25 sectors, and that's what you shoved into one of the regs, hence the data from sector 1 being there, but the actual read command returning failure
<potatojs> i did change the number of sectors to 1 when we were testing , and still got the error ,
<zid> you probably had other issues at the same time
<potatojs> no that i look back maybe that was before you told me to add cli
<potatojs> yea
<zid> see, isn't bootloader nonsense really fun? It's hard to debug, badly documented, and nobody remembers how any of it works, plus this is *only* for qemu, there's a million motherboards with broken bioses for you to work around too :D
<potatojs> you description of fun is far from what i intended
<zid> it was a sarcstic fun
<zid> I told you not to fuck with bootloaders
<Mutabah> ^
<potatojs> some of us must learn the hard way
<zid> yea I don't think you should *never* mess with them
<zid> but losing days and weeks to trivial problems is *all* bootloader stuff is
<zid> once you understand what they do, how they're doing it etc
<zid> you should move on
<potatojs> so i should switch to grub
<potatojs> and start kernel?
<Mutabah> That's usually the best option
<potatojs> cus i was working on why protected mode doesnt work for me
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<Mutabah> get grub (or another bootloader) to get you into pmode and then don't touch the firmware again
<potatojs> if you can't beat em , join em
<potatojs> ok
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<Mutabah> (well, until you have a lot more expirence under your belt, and are ready to do direct uEFI support)
<potatojs> but can i atleast at protected mode and load my very very smal kernel before i switch
<potatojs> switch *
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<potatojs> goodnight guys!
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<zid> Just had one on the playstation discord :D
<zid> I'll paraphrase
<zid> "how i maek playstation gaem?"
<zid> "What experience do you have?"
<zid> "i made a minigame in roblox"
<geist> MAKE GAAM
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<zid> boo, wsl --install needs you to restart
<zid> guess I will get it in 2 months or so
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<zid> I think it wants to virtualize my install so they run side by side and not one under the other afaik?
<geist> wsl 2 it may be wanting to turn on the hypervisor yeah
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<kazinsal> just do what I did and buy an unstable piece of shit motherboard that hardlocks and gets watchdog reset randomly every 2-5 days. restarts will be routine for you at that point
<zid> I've never had unstable hw like that thankfully
<zid> It's MIGHTY annoying
<kazinsal> this ASUS B650 is possibly one of the worst pieces of hardware I've ever purchased
<zid> I've had known bad hardware I've successfully worked around only :P
<kazinsal> I'm going to buy a new board, probably a gigabyte or MSI
<zid> You should just install windows 98
<kazinsal> I just need to stop having so many expensive ass months
<zid> It also crashed every 2 days but but it'd nice and snappy!
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<Ermine> Also imo nice ui!
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<bslsk05> ​kernel.googlesource.com: refs/heads/x86/urgent - pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tip/tip - Git at Google
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<gog> hi
<heat> gog intel did the goofed again
<gog> best cpus
<gog> very market leading
<gog> this is worse than the Phenom II's that had a totally broken TLB
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<heat> i wonder... the latest, mysterious microcode update probably fixed this?
<zid> It's only.. all of alderlake and raptorlake, who cares
<heat> you know who doesn't care?
<heat> THE GLORIOUS AMD RYZEN USERZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!!!!!
<zid> (aka every modern deskto cpu they make)
<zid> bios is flawless too
<zid> every possible feature, they all work great
<heat> rdrand always return all-1s [ON]
<gog> ryzen is beautiful and perfect and you will not be sarcastic about it
<zid> what sarcasm
<zid> I am amd every day
<zid> 100% amd user
<gog> i was talking to heat
<heat> i am a 200% amd user
<gog> i know your unwavering love for the ryzen is sincere
<zid> what was the name of the thing that opens if you hit win-break
<zid> on windows
<heat> your cd tray
<zid> I don't have a win key
<gog> system -> about
<zid> ty
<zid> No intel here
<zid> Intel is dead
<zid> I've never even *used* intel
<gog> what's intel?
<zid> archaic silicon company
<zid> they made things like bus tranceivers
<zid> and memory modules
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<zid> some SSDs for a while
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<nikolar> Don't forget optane
<Ermine> it is 'some SSDs', isn't it?
<zid> That was ltierally the third thing I said of three :P
<nikolar> Do they count though
<geist> zid: oh yeah how have you been getting along with powertools a week or so on?
<zid> It's still hard to press and I forget
<zid> so I go ctrl-esc, C:\of ah shit, alt-space, C:\of..
<zid> but ctrl-esc is also hard to press I just need my muscle memory to catch up
<zid> by 2040 I will be good at it
<gog> bye
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<zid> rip, gog's dead
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<heat> two gogs deaded
<zid> I think you're supposed to report mass die-offs to the environmental agency
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<heat> google chrome update broke spotify
<heat> cheers m8s
<heat> year of the netbsd desktop or whatever they say
<zid> I still get a "someone tried to password recover your spotify" emails once every 2 days
<zid> for the past 10 years or so
<zid> I think it might be a bug because I am like, user #1
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<zid> I wonder if spotify has visible sequential user IDs anywhere, I'd be super interested to see it
<zid> I legit am probably sub 100
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<heat> ok i tried rolling back the flatpak and its still broken
<heat> fuck
<zid> flatwhat
<heat> music is overrated anyway
<heat> flatpak
<zid> I use uoutube
<zid> it's free and has weirder stuff
<heat> flatpak is like a containerized thing that makes things work better
<zid> better than what, running an .exe?
<heat> yeah
<zid> doubt.jpg
<heat> i don't need to use the fucking AUR
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<heat> nor wait for them to update their distro package, etc etc
<zid> archissues
<heat> it's legitimately plug and play
<zid> it's not like it's possible to build chrome
<zid> why a 'flatpak' and not a 'zip' though I will never understand
<zid> (or as redhat calls them, rpms)
<heat> because they depend on system packages
<heat> chrome is the annoying bit here, because they roll super fast
<zid> browsers are like MMO clients
<zid> they should just update themselves
<heat> it does on debian
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<zid> so debian > arch?
<geist> chrome updates itself pretty aggresively on windows/mac
<heat> /kick zid
<zid> If you let it :P
<geist> you should let it
<zid> so they can add 4 new web standards, yea
<geist> and bug/sploit/etc fixes
<zid> my biannual reboot gets it
<heat> 1) you can't do unmanned AUR updates because anyone can fuck with the package, or the PKGBUILD
<geist> yuo dont have to reboot to update chrome
<zid> no, but I have to reboot my browser
<heat> 2) there's no google-chrome-stable in the repos
<zid> which is the same as rebooting your entire PC these days
<geist> no, not really. but whatever
<zid> given how people actually seem to use computers now
<heat> given this, the flatpaks are the seamless-est way to update chrome
<zid> excel? I think you mean docs.google.com
<zid> calculator? think you mean google and wolfram
<geist> and? you just restart chrome
<geist> and then it reconnects, and then you continue.
<geist> i do it like twice a week, and works fine
<geist> you can even force it `chrome://restart`
<zid> yea I'm just not that into restarting stuff that doesn't *need* it
<heat> yeah updating chrome is really important
<geist> but it *needs* it if you update it
<zid> I don't even use chrome anymore, though
<geist> so it comes back to if you thing you need updates, and obviously you dont
<zid> I switched from pale moon + chrome to firefox
<heat> there's a boatload of exploits constantly getting found in v8
<zid> let's hope nobody ever payloads youtube.com with it against me then in the 2 week window between it becoming live and me updating
<geist> plus as a general restart it's usually nice
<geist> cleans out the ram, starts over, etc
<geist> not a bad idea
<heat> geist are you on linux right now?
<geist> on mac right now
<zid> chrome doesn't really have ram leak issues given it's multiprocess now
<zid> pale moon did
<heat> aw ok. i'm thinking that spotify itself broke widevine linux...
<zid> all the hash tables and shit would grow up and stuff
<zid> so you'd end up with a bigger resident set even if you closed everything
<geist> never even heard of pale moon, what's that based on?
<zid> firefox before the multiprocess split + removal of the plugin api
<geist> ah
<zid> they did those at the same time
<geist> mostly because one depends on the other
<zid> so if you were hanging onto an addon you never got multiprocess
<heat> forking browsers? lol
<heat> how 2 get RCE'd in 1 month
<zid> you do know that
<zid> people have to actually write exploits
<heat> for old firefox? yeah they can do that
<zid> nobody's hacking cloudflare and dropping a payload for pale moon w7 32bit
<geist> yeah can just keep a catalog of old exploits as part of a sploit package
<zid> they're doing 64bit w10 chrome
<geist> try every known sploit based on what they detect. no sweat
<zid> if you're getting *personally* phished that's different
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<zid> oh gog undied
<gog> hi
<zid> Both of your clients died so I called it a mass die-off and called the icelandic environmental agency
<gog> i think you overreacted
<zid> well you did say "Bye" first
<zid> It felt incredibly ominous
<gog> speaking of umhverfisstöðin íslands, i disposed of a dead computer responsibly
<gog> i chucked it into the harbor
<zid> perfect
<zid> now it's a fish habitat
<gog> jk tho i took it to the bin
<gog> the dead computer and phone bin
<zid> They tried to do that with old tires/tyres in the US, and they worked great
<zid> until the tie-downs failed
<zid> and all the tires started mashing the coral into dust
<gog> oops
<gog> the best laid plans of mice and men
<vdamewood> I prefer of Monsters and Men.
<vdamewood> Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir has an awesome voice.
<gog> i like them
<gog> but she's trying a little too obviously to emulate björk
<gog> which is fine
<gog> björk is legendary
<vdamewood> I don't hear it.
<gog> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<vdamewood> Da least Daði isn' trying to sound like Björk.
<vdamewood> At* least
<gog> nah he's got his own thing
<vdamewood> Okay, those are thr three Icelandic acts I know about.
<vdamewood> the*
<gog> it's technically a björk project, but the band she was in before going solo, the sugar cubes
<gog> recommended
<gog> sigur rós
<gog> everybody knows them
<vdamewood> I'll make a note of it.
<vdamewood> So, now that today is my actual birthday, It's time for me to travel the town, scamming free ice creams, desserts, and appetizers.
<vdamewood> oh, and coffee!
<gog> happy birthday>11
<gog> '!!
<vdamewood> Thanks
<heat> happy bday
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<vdamewood> I have plans with a friend to have dinner at my favorite restaurant after work.
<gog> :D
<heat> ok widevine seems to be broken
<heat> your bday officially sucks
<heat> year of the linux fucking desktop???
<vdamewood> Wasn't that supposed to be 2003?
<heat> disney+ is borked, netflix is borked, spotify is borked
<heat> fuck this shit
<vdamewood> Is Widevine a CDN they all use or something?
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<heat> no, its a DRM plugin
<bnchs> heat: this vdamewood's birthday is here to encourage you
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<heat> >fedora/vdamewood
<heat> you take a day off work and linux desktop goes to shit
<bnchs> >widevine breaks
<bnchs> >blame it on linux desktop
<heat> yes, yes its linux desktop
<bnchs> how about you blame the widevine devs
<heat> because it still works on normal platforms or there would be mass rioting world wide
<bnchs> because "normal platforms" have outdated libraries in the first place
<bnchs> to fit widevine
<bnchs> i'm assuming widevine is dynamically-linked
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<bnchs> and i'm assuming it has to do with library errors
<heat> no.
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<bnchs> i dont use these dumb ass sites anyway
<bnchs> because i don't support big corps
<bnchs> shelling out soulless shows
<heat> ok
<heat> good for you
<bnchs> so i think DRM breaking is a good thing :^)
<bnchs> anyway happy birthday vdamewood
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<mrvn> widevine sometimes works in firefox and sometimes firefox-esr here.
<mrvn> switches between updates.
<mrvn> and only Debian unstable.
<mrvn> (testing)
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<mrvn> Todays state: works in firefox, works in firefox-esr but not hi-res.
<bnchs> so, is this linux's fault?
<bnchs> this sounds more like widevine's
<heat> watch me reboot into windows and have things Just Work
<bnchs> heat: i don't care, usually this shit is more of the fault of widevine's linux porting team
<bnchs> i don't think distros should be hacking around their problems
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<heat> and i dont care. this is linux desktop.
<heat> if i cant do my normal desktop shit in linux, there's a problem
<bnchs> and you should go tell it to google
<heat> got a hack for this at least
<bnchs> good
<heat> no, no it's not good, how is this acceptable
<bnchs> because it's literally google's fault
<bnchs> not linux desktop's fault
<bnchs> distro maintainers shouldn't hack around problems and shit on a proprietary library in a broken way
<heat> who's "linux desktop"?
<heat> it's everyone's fucking fault that this is unusable garbage
<bnchs> heat: the entity you keep saying it's their fault
<heat> no, I'm saying tht linux desktop is broken
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<heat> because it is, always has been, always will be
<heat> there's no fucking entity here
<bnchs> boohoo my proprietary crap isn't working because the devs fucked it up
<bnchs> i shall blame the people who packaged it
<bnchs> rather than the people who made it
<heat> yes, because the FOSS portions are faring much better
<heat> ...
<heat> yes, i blamed the people who packaged it
<heat> > looks at flatpak
<heat> wait, it's the same people who made it!
<bnchs> did you download widevine from flatpak?
<heat> yes
<bnchs> then contact google
<heat> i dont care, this is broken, everything here is broken, i shouldn't need to run sudo chown -R root:root on crap to hotfix shit, because no one cares
<bnchs> anyway ill stop responding on this discussion
<bnchs> have fun on your dumb DRM, LOOOOL
<heat> remarkably, the bad proprietary google chrome is the least broken browser i've used on linux
<bnchs> skill issue
<heat> thanks, I will
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<bnchs> heat: i'm sorry for being a dick
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<mrvn> heat: it's "acceptable" because disney has billions of dollars and don't give a shit.
<mrvn> it's because copyright and licensing deals are totally screwed up
<mrvn> also without this most of the VPN providers would die because people wouldn't have to fake their country of origin to watch some show.,
<bnchs> mrvn: yes
<bnchs> that's literally it
* Bitweasil mutters something about The Usual Sources.
<Bitweasil> But without NordVPN, how would we have all our favorite YouTube creators funded? :p
<gog> hi
<nortti> I do wonder what the actual cashflows here are. I can't see how they'd be able to charge reasonable price for the service, pay all the ads you see, and not lose money
<zid> raid shadow legends, ofc
<zid> vpn services are damn near free to run
<gog> evony
<gog> dang i need to start a vpn service
<Bitweasil> ^^ Yeah. VPN services are insanely cheap to run.
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<Bitweasil> Also, don't forget Venture Capital. You can run at a loss for a long time if you can find the right suckers.
<Bitweasil> See Uber/DoorDash/etc.
<zid> Like, imagine if youtube cost $10/mo and you didn't actually have to have any storage
<mrvn> zid: someone hast to pay for the bandwidth.
<zid> You're basically an ISP but with no upkeep costs
<zid> no modems or infrastructure, no roads to dig up, no engineers to employ, etc
<mrvn> lots of uplinks and server racks in every country to pay for
<mrvn> legal team to deal with copyright infringement claims
<mrvn> (one per country)
<mrvn> zid: In germany most ISP buy the last mile and don't own that themself.
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<heat> i'm starting to think anon memory needs a different data structure from backed
<zid> did someone say union
<heat> like, atm it's very hard to plausibly expand an anonymous vma from the front
<heat> a red black tree keyed by offset will not work here, a radix tree will be slow too
<heat> there's no easy cheap trick here except storing the anon pages themselves in the actual page tables
<mjg> i thought people experimented with btrees or some shit
<mjg> is not maple syroup in that vein?
<heat> where
<heat> yes, but that's for VMAs
<heat> what do your vm objects use?
<jimbzy> zid, You ever play any of the Suikoden games? If you like FF you might like those, too.
<mjg> radix
<heat> fwiw, I'm fairly sure that linux does anon memory in the page tables themselves
<heat> jeez, how do you expand that from the front?
<heat> i.e move every freaking page back 2 spots because you added 0x2000 to the front of the vma
<heat> if you're lucky and offsets work out, you could just move the higher radix levels. but you're probably not
<heat> expanding a rb tree like that will be O(n), a radix tree will also be O(n) I think
<mjg> i think dfly is RB
<mjg> fwiw
<mjg> :s
<heat> why do I care? I want to reduce fragmentation in my vm maps by merging VMAs or mmaps
<mjg> not an os nerd
<mjg> i guess
<mjg> it's ok
<heat> hm?
<heat> anyway, I would love to know how freebsd does this. unless the answer is "it doesn't". because that's cursed AF
<mjg> i don't know, but it's probably stupid
<mjg> i mean totes mades sense on the vax, trust me bro, no way the fucked that up
<mjg> and it just aged poorly
<bslsk05> ​yourmom.zip: 413 Request Entity Too Large
<mjg> fucking bot
<heat> lol
<heat> didn't UVM differentiate anon from backed too?
<mjg> that i genuinely don't know and it makes sense to find out
<mjg> all the trash talk aside
<heat> https://grok.dragonflybsd.org/xref/freebsd/sys/vm/vm_map.c?r=1e0e335b&fi=vm_map_find#2091 the logic is somewhere here but I don't really grok (haha) this code
<bslsk05> ​grok.dragonflybsd.org: vm_map.c (revision 1e0e335b) - OpenGrok cross reference for /freebsd/sys/vm/vm_map.c
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<heat> vm_object_coalesce I think
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<heat> i'm fairly sure this only coalesces tail mappings though
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<mcrod> hi
<mrvn> If you have a tree then why aren't you simply inserting the pages into the tree and then nodes that are full collapse into larger nodes?
<mrvn> What do you want to collapse though? The virtual address range or the physical addresses?
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<innegatives> In original IBM PC, where do first 32 vectors in IVT point to?
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<nortti> innegatives: you can emulate it using pcem and see
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<zid> That's definitely the sort of information best gotten from IRC
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<zid> a list of thirty two number pairs from a machine older than we are
<heat_> zid how does inc x86 instruction work
<zid> heat_: line goes up
<heat_> is there cargo crate
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<mrvn> innegatives: If you don't know that then maybe you shouldn't be writing an emulator?
<innegatives> im almost done tho
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<innegatives> i have to write system software, otherwise where do i even start, how long will i do fucking webdev
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<Bitweasil> If you're not handling interrupts... you're not "almost done" with an emulator. :) In any case, stick around, I'm out for the day but I play with emulators too.
<bnchs> i'm writing an emulator too
<bnchs> ... it's not a hardware emulator
<bnchs> but a OS emulator
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