<bslsk05>
www.thelayoff.com: Don't trust your boss - post regarding Red Hat layoffs
<Ermine>
Fuck geoblocks
<GeDaMo>
Is that site geoblocked? Or was that just a random "fuck geoblocks"? :P
<Ermine>
that site is blocked
<mjg>
Ermine: where aer you
<mjg>
anyhow
<mjg>
> About a month ago, my boss along with my colleagues was singing praises about how crucial I was for the upcoming projects. My boss even said that my contributions were going to be so important for the success of the team. And then, out of nowhere, I was told that my position was no longer needed. Don't trust your managers, people. They'll lie in a heartbeat.
<mjg>
:D
<mjg>
this is corporate 101
<mjg>
fucking people thinking it is not need to wake up
<mjg>
cc heat sham1
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<gog>
unions
<gog>
heat: unions
<heat>
onions
<gog>
those too
<heat>
mjg, does read_mostly make a large difference?
<heat>
in pErF
<mjg>
yes and no
<mjg>
it would make real diff if everything was fully annotated
<mjg>
since it is not and vars fly around everywhere you get wins or losses depending on shit which is not annotated yet
<mjg>
e.g., something false shares by accident or does not
<mjg>
real wins come from separating vars which get slapped with atomics
<heat>
hmm, I was thinking read_mostly would put you in a separate page?
<mjg>
it does
<heat>
anyway, I want __ro_after_init or whatever the linux people do
<mjg>
but the thing you read_mostly'ed disappeaerd from the original location
<mjg>
which shifted other things around
<heat>
my vm layout constants became extern unsigned longs :/
<mjg>
so in particular it could make them false share *or* no longer flase share
<mjg>
as in 2 vars updated with atomics suddently are in the same cacheline
<mjg>
or are not
<heat>
yeah i understand
<mjg>
the real fix imo is to stop the fukcing linker from shitting on vars across .o files
<mjg>
this would auto-eliminate most of the problem and increase real locality
<mjg>
but it would not achiev ro_after_init, if you are after security
<heat>
yes, i know
<heat>
ro_after_init gives me securiteh and performance
<heat>
poggers!
<mjg>
it is a half perf-loss, just like read_mostly
<mjg>
because it fucks with locality of adjacent vars which *are* used together
<heat>
environment variables are a half perf-loss
<mjg>
mentioning perf loss reminded me of RUST
<heat>
i think kees (or at least the hardening people) have played around with variables that are mostly-read and when you need to perform a rare write you disable CR0.WP, (or use an alias mapping, etc, depending on the arch)
<heat>
so they effectively get RO'd except when you do need to write
<mjg>
that would work but i don't know if its worth the cmlpexity
<mjg>
if you want to fix something which matters, here is something
<mjg>
ebpf pages get temp mapped writable
<mjg>
and then remapped rx
<mjg>
or just x
<mjg>
this results in IPIs to tlb shootdown
<mjg>
who gives a fuck you ask
<mjg>
answer: if you log in over ssh on linux, you end up invoking this shit
<mjg>
and someone one channel over complained it on a router -- they get a latency spike for loggin in :O
<mjg>
the idea to fix would be to use DMAP for writes
<mjg>
there is moer to it of course but that's the gist
<zid>
how do I get a sponsorship to play factorio all day
<Ermine>
Please share if you find one
<zid>
Maybe I should just send random emails to corporations, claiming I am an influencer
<zid>
billions of people know who I am
<zid>
ooh good idae: "henlo I am maek youtube video, I will be needing 144 cans of dr pepper can I hab pls?"
<jimbzy>
Haha
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<innegatives>
In here https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/cwd:cdq:cqo it says "DX := SignExtend(AX);" at "Operation". It should be "DX:AX := SignExtend(AX);" instead, right? is it a mistake?
<bslsk05>
www.felixcloutier.com: CWD/CDQ/CQO — Convert Word to Doubleword/Convert Doubleword to Quadword
<GeDaMo>
innegatives: well, AX doesn't change but DX gets set to the sign value of AX
<innegatives>
ok thanks
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<heat>
mjg, hmm, is that when jitting?
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<mjg>
heat: probably
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<innegatives>
Hey, would you implement LOCK instruction if you are making 8086 emu to run ms/dos, or is it unnecessary?
<mjg>
heat: you can ebpf to find out :X
<innegatives>
if you have a LOOP instruction and CX == 0, does it still decrement CX?
<mjg>
heat: if you mean recompiling the binary to have a fuckton of added code to support "profiling" (and that's what it used to be), then it should be self-explanatory
<heat>
but they're nop'ed out
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<mjg>
their existence fucks with actual profiling
<heat>
there's no overhead until that shit gets patched though?
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<heat>
where would that fuck you over?
<mjg>
for example various loop targets will shift from 8 -> 16 alignment by accident
<mjg>
or back to 8
<mjg>
and if you -falign-loops=16 to nullify this problem you just increased icache footprint
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<heat>
how?
<mjg>
how what
<zid>
how what
<mjg>
nops take space i how
<heat>
how will those shift m8
<mjg>
:]
<mjg>
is
<heat>
then your codegen is brittle
<heat>
IF ANYONE TOUCHES THE CODEGEN THE JUMPS GET PESSIMIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<mjg>
did i mention yet how volatile this is?
<heat>
what is?
<mjg>
have you read that paper which benched -O2 vs -O3 and so on
<heat>
yes m8
<heat>
well, not O2 vs O3 but I know the effect
<mjg>
then you should know that whatever perf you benched got disfigured
<heat>
that preso where environment variables changed the speed of the prog
<bslsk05>
'Legolas forgets Aragorn's father's name' by sirN4NCEalot (00:00:31)
<mjg>
:S
<mjg>
i don't know if you are to young to be expected to have this movie under your belt
<heat>
i have never watched that shit, no
<heat>
cuz that's for NERDS
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<mjg>
mate, given your age, it is plausible you relaly did not
<mjg>
so don't fuck with me here
<heat>
did not what
<mjg>
did not see LOTR
<heat>
it's not an age thing
<heat>
i just... don't care about LOTR
<mjg>
did you watch dragon ball z?
<heat>
yes when I was a kid
<heat>
remember jack shit about it though, except idk, vegeta or something
<mjg>
:S
<mjg>
youth today!
<heat>
ANYWAY, if your loop speeds matter a lot, add more attributes to them? (I think hot applies to loops too?)
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<heat>
or -falign-loops=16
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<heat>
like, hoping the loops get automagically 16-aligned sounds brittle enough to me
<mjg>
it is a tradeoff between icache footprint and loop speed
<mjg>
and you are fucking with it with your nops
<mjg>
and i'm not really convinced it is worth it given the current support for profiling
<mjg>
where is my ebpf fix
<heat>
up yer arse :p
<heat>
i know very little about the ebpf code so i'll maybe maybe maybe look into it later
<heat>
fwiw most linux kernels get CONFIG_FUNCTION_TRACER=y'd
<heat>
"If it's runtime disabled (the bootup default), then the overhead of the instructions is very small and not measurable even in micro-benchmarks (at least on x86, but may have impact on other architectures)."
<heat>
per kconfig
<mjg>
is that just nops on entry point?
<mjg>
if so that's cheap af
<mjg>
also note linux skips the usual func prologie/epilogu
<mjg>
e
<heat>
yes dude
<heat>
that's what I've been talking about
<heat>
it's just a 5 byte nop
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<mjg>
maybe i confused it with the old tracing facility
<mjg>
it "instruments" the shit out of everything bloating the code into oblivion
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<mjg>
so ye, nops on entry are a-ok
<mjg>
check out kgmon :X
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<zid>
By which I mean you feel worse for having watched it, but is cinematically excellent.
<mjg>
> A young man's mother is bitten by a Sumatran rat-monkey. She gets sick and dies, at which time she comes back to life, killing and eating dogs, nurses, friends, and neighbors.
<heat>
>roman pol
<zid>
mjg, have you seen arachnaphobia
<heat>
SKYUUUUUUUUP
<mjg>
fucking not even B-rated synopsis should be enough of an apetizer
<zid>
I used to watch that every time it was on T
<zid>
TV
<mjg>
zid: no
<zid>
aww shame, it was good
<zid>
not like, amazing, but it's a good random 80s movie
<zid>
like the goonies or whatever
<mjg>
meh
<mjg>
have you seen edge of tomorrow?
<zid>
what's that tom hanks one about the weird neighbours.. the burbs!
<mjg>
that's a great "fuck it and have fun" movie
<zid>
that's the 2001 disaster movie?
<GeDaMo>
Is Arachnophobia from the 80s? :|
<zid>
2014
<zid>
fuck that
<zid>
GeDaMo: 1990, so it was made in the 80s
<mjg>
glengarry glen ross then mofer
<GeDaMo>
Yeah, still older than I thought
<zid>
I am also like this
<gog>
i've been watching boardwalk empire
<zid>
I was born in the 80s but grew up in the 90s
<heat>
quentin tarentino could make a 3h movie of him shitting in a bucket and I'd eat that shit up
<zid>
I am arachnophobia
<mjg>
gog: nice
<heat>
literally? yes. Metaphorically? yes
<zid>
Can we clone jeff daniels from the 80s and have him make movies again
<mjg>
ey mofer do you like miami vice :X
<mjg>
i tried atching it and holy shit how is it so bad
<zid>
Can someone reboot my PC for me and plug my usb card in
<zid>
I cbf to restart all my programz
<gog>
mjg: it's pretty damn good
<gog>
steve buscemi in a serial drama of cinema quality is what the world didn't know it needed
<mjg>
dude stars in THE SOPRANOS
<mjg>
which yous hould have watched first
<mjg>
just sayin'
<gog>
i have watched it
<mjg>
aight
<heat>
have you watched "the death of stalin"?
<gog>
oh that's right!
<mjg>
heat is a FANUK
<gog>
cousin tony
<mjg>
tried it straight
<heat>
steve buscemi as khrushchev was brilliant
<mjg>
gog: that animal blundetto, yes
<gog>
haha
<gog>
tony b
<mjg>
sacred and the propane
<zid>
death of stalin is a riot
<gog>
steve buscemi's brother played a schizophrenic guy who calls himself 'god' and shouts obscenities at people on the street in nurse jackie
<gog>
who is also a gifted artist
<zid>
jason isaacs doing a yorkshire accent for the part is an A+ take
<kof123>
death of stalin is great <skates by> "play better!" ... need to see the recent john wick
<mjg>
oooh
<heat>
the movie is like 5x better with that than if they had made up some really shitty russian accents
<mjg>
one flew over cuckoos nest
<mjg>
motherfucker
<mjg>
's the movie to wach
<zid>
why
<zid>
it's boring and old
<zid>
like, amazingly boring
<mjg>
OH
<zid>
It's like the deer hunter but only the first part
<zid>
and then it ends
<mjg>
not enough explosionsfor you
<zid>
no, not enough *anything*
<zid>
He literally just sits in a chair in a medical facility for a week
<zid>
and has silted conversations with ill people
<zid>
It's got less plot than an episode of Arthur
<heat>
i both really liked and really disliked homeland
<heat>
great show but soooo boring sometimes
<heat>
also, really, 8 seasons? m8
<mjg>
wait
<mjg>
heat
<mjg>
have you seen LOST?
<zid>
LOST is what made me stop watching american TV, and I didn't even see lost
<mjg>
it was the biggest shit around 2005-2010
<zid>
I just heard people raving about it constantly, while knowing it looked shitty, and then watching it get shitty enough that the people who liked it started hating it
<heat>
i have not seen lost
<mjg>
and suddenly everyone stopped talking about it
<zid>
They wrote it into the ground
<zid>
like all american TV shows
<mjg>
zid: ye they really trolled the audience
<zid>
They get recomissioned per series
<mjg>
albeit that's nothing compared to s8 of got
<zid>
so they have to write up more and more exceptional bullshit because this is either the *last* series or the 2nd series, at random
<heat>
hot take: a show with more than 3 seasons usually means it's starting to suck
<mjg>
well
<mjg>
lost summed up in one term: MYSTERY BOX
<mjg>
authors neglected to mention the box is empty
<zid>
hotter take: Anything that made it to 3 seasons was usually already bad, you just cared less because it was novel
<mjg>
WALKING DEAD
<mjg>
fuck that show for continuing
<zid>
fallout 4
<mjg>
fucking bold and beautiful of non-soap opear
<zid>
The entire video game is about a mysterious institute with unknown motives constantly fucking with you
<zid>
The reveal is that
<zid>
The end.
<zid>
*watches taskmaster*
<mjg>
as far as i'm concdred the fallout series died with the second game
<mjg>
s/died/ended/
<zid>
fonv was decent
<zid>
brother of steel / fo3 are bad
<zid>
fo4 is like.. an interesting *game*, as in, clicking the mouse is sorta fun
<zid>
I put 2k hours into EU4 but now I'm missing half the dlc
<zid>
and don't know what I am doing
<zid>
so I've not played it in forever
<geist>
i just dont particularly like high stress PVP things like counterstrike, or destiny in pvp mode, etc
<zid>
Only pvp game I seriously played was starcraft 2
<geist>
they're fun, but high stress, and i like to use gaming as a way to *reduce* stress in my life
<heat>
i haven't played actual video games that are not football manager since like august 2022
<zid>
I've played a few otehrs casually
<kof123>
"citizens are upset, they are hoarding the tp" -- simcity 2040 (not meant to imply anything except a revision would have some new crisises)
<heat>
oh and dark souls, had a bunch of weeks where I played a lot of it
<geist>
also like building things for a while. like Astroneer
<geist>
also explore and sandbox stuff like No Man's Sky
<zid>
factorio + terraria are the two true games
<geist>
yeah
<heat>
space engineers?
<geist>
Oxygen Not Included
<zid>
I also like the 'small studio puzzle game' phenomena
<geist>
kinda bounced off space engineers. maybe should jst put more time into it
<geist>
also a fun one i randomly discovered last year: Ship Breakers
<zid>
stephen's susage roll, baba is you, monster's expedition, toki tori, etc
<geist>
totes
<geist>
also i will mostly drop whatever i'm doing if a new metroidvania comes out
<heat>
unravel is gr8, i totally need to finally get into it
<geist>
especially if it's retro
<geist>
especially if it's more exploration than hard boss fights
<heat>
i remember the unravel guy pouring his heart out on stage in E3 like 2014 or something
<zid>
I'd like to play more bloodstained ritual of the night
<geist>
yeah i remember playing unravel one. it was amazing
<zid>
but my controller's right stick is broken
<geist>
yep, i finished ritual of the night. was pretty good
<heat>
there's a sequel too!
<zid>
It broke while I was 2 hours into the hardest mode
<zid>
I think heat should buy me a new one so we can play fifa
<heat>
i haven't played fifa since like fifa 2011
<zid>
(and I can play trackmania and bloodstained)
<zid>
yea but I need a hook
<zid>
to get you invested in buying me a new controller
<geist>
get you a zid kickstarter going
<geist>
just show some sad pictures of your old xeon machine
<zid>
ikr
<geist>
add some fake cobwebs and plastic spiders on it
<zid>
fake?
<zid>
why would I need to add fake ones
<geist>
even better!
<zid>
It's 12 years old!
<zid>
It's got a hearty collection of real ones
<geist>
though actually didn't you say you recently got something new one?
<zid>
yea I'm on a 5800x now
<heat>
zid super PAC when?
<zid>
anyone wanna trade a xeon for a controller?
<geist>
oh rad. welcome to team red
<zid>
Intel is dead
<zid>
AMD AMD AMD
<zid>
Xeon was great, so was coal
<geist>
god i have too many old computers already. i need to start donating locall
<zid>
that board might be relatively fixable
<zid>
but I don't have parts or microsoldering gear or whatever it needs
<heat>
tfw your local homeless shelter figures out what to do with a SPARC machine
<zid>
think I'd need an spi flasher module and a new flash chip as a minimum
<geist>
well, there is a local facebook group that's like 'free stuff on the island' that folks will just show up and take it away
<geist>
but in that case theres kinda an obligation to clean it up, make sure it's stable, etc
<geist>
because you're not just donating it to some recycling thing, someone is presumably going to want to actually use it
<zid>
**UNTESTED** A+++++
<zid>
you need those keywords
<zid>
and you can do anything
<geist>
sure, but the point is to actually give a working thing to a person that needs it
<geist>
otherwise yeah if it's just going to be parted, dont care
<geist>
being the engineer i am that means take each computer out, find a disk for it, get it cleaned up, load up windows on it, run memtester and prime95 on it for a day. then declare it stable and donatable
<heat>
why would you load up MICRO$HIT WINBLOW$
<geist>
because that's what everyone wants
<heat>
no, force feed them a linux distro
<geist>
i could
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<geist>
that's usually the default thing i toss on things
<zid>
oh ps4 controllers are way cheaper than they used to be, last time I locked was COVIDGANZA so maybe there was a spike
<heat>
Haaaaaaaaave you tried fedora?
<zid>
£30 now rather than £60
<innegatives>
I just found out that IBM PC had 8088 till AT, which had 286. Does that mean I can't run IBM MS/DOS on 8086 emulator?
<geist>
side note, i finally upgraded my main windows gaming machine to windows 11 from 10
<zid>
oh I read that backwards
<geist>
verdict: no real advantage, but mostly as stable as 10, but a little quirky
<heat>
geist, fwiw depending on the age of the computer you probably should just load up gnew slash linux
<zid>
That you'd upgraded to windows 10 from 11, and was impressed as your acumen
<zid>
at your*
<zid>
I'd still be running xp64 if it were viable, w7 is.. tolerable, after *much* fiddling
<geist>
heat: <sbhrug> i understandwehat you’re sayiong and you’re probably saying it in jest, but i’ve literally thought about this for like 500 msec
<zid>
disabling about 80 services, uninstalling a bunch of 'windows shop' and cortana bullshit, changing 20-30 policies, etc
<heat>
yeah
<zid>
w10 is*
<heat>
i like windows 11 and the centered start menu
<zid>
w7 I know how to pare down to something I actually like, w10 still annoys me massively
<geist>
probably will justdo that. but honestly 100% of regular people that would be like ‘oh yay i need a computer my last one died and i need topay the bills’ will not know what to do with linux
<heat>
yes totally, computerz are hard
<zid>
like, did nobody actually ever try to *use* w10
<geist>
and 100% of people that would want to use linux would just immediately repave it with whatever distro they like
<zid>
so, I start typing a path into the bar I am supposed to type paths into, it autocompletes for me:
<zid>
(right arrow key then left arrow key does work, and is what I use currently)
<Ermine>
puck: thank you
<puck>
zid: ah, yeah, i think this is a Power User Feature they don't do. i'm tempted to suggest win+r for your path navigation, i think that has the behavior you want
<heat>
geist, have you uncentered the start menu yet?
<geist>
100%
<heat>
:(
<zid>
puck: unfortunately, my keyboard doesn't have a win key
<heat>
i think it's a good idea
<geist>
honestly the biggest gripe is the taskbar. i hate that it insists on collapsing windows from the same app into one icon
<heat>
kinda like macOS's dock
<zid>
I'd have to do ctrl-esc, run, enter, F:\of [down arrow]
<zid>
(and win-r is actually really hard to type)
<geist>
zid: on windows? should be able to win-r, f:\of
<geist>
oh.
<kof123>
yes, collapse into one icon...then next scrollbar arrows, then ...
<geist>
i have win-r so built into my brain now i just do it without typing. and then powertoys has it's own set of popups you can enable
<geist>
for things like sleep and shutdown and whatnot
<kof123>
tear-off/sticky menus...just a matter of time
<zid>
I spent like 80 hours looking for a keyboard and this is the best I could find
<zid>
and it's crap
<puck>
actually, i wonder if powertoys run does the thing
<geist>
i'll get used to the w11 collapsed windows, but i dont like it. have all this taskbar real estate to use and can't use it because it smashes things into basically like 1/10 of the width of the screen
<geist>
i'm used to having lots of chrome windows by topic, naming the window, and then having an easy to read list of windows with the name on it
<zid>
oh yea, w11 doesn't have a don't group taskbar entries mode right?
<kof123>
i actually hate it to, just find it
<zid>
unusable.
<geist>
like 'main' or 'programming' or 'game' or whatnot
<zid>
imagine using a PC and not having two copies of explorer open
<zid>
ever in your life ever
<kof123>
*too just find it ... nostalgic
<geist>
zid: yeah honestly given that there's no real advantage for w11 yet that's enough of a deal breaker where i wouldn't upgrade to it if you dont have to
<zid>
It took me what, 5 years past eol to upgrade from w7
<bslsk05>
learn.microsoft.com: Install PowerToys | Microsoft Learn
<zid>
this is the link I needed
<heat>
puck, and then otoh wayland still kind of sucks, and so does X11, and so does anything else
<geist>
anyway, fiddle with that. there's a bazillion options in it. unforunately one of the options is not 'fix the fucking taskbar'
<heat>
becausssssssssssssssssse linux desktop fucking suckkkkkkkkkkkks
<zid>
did w11 ever fix the window tearing
<puck>
heat: idk, X isn't great, wayland isn't great but is getting there
<zid>
that's been here since dwm
<geist>
apparently MSFT is really doubling down on w11 taskbar. used to have a registry setting to restore the separate windows behavior in beta, but apparently is hard removed now
<heat>
also discord screensharing in linux wayland is busted
<Ermine>
Plasma is nice actually
<geist>
now the only fix for it is literally a binary patch for it
<heat>
my best bet is to use discord on chrome to screenshare
<nikolar>
It's really easy to fix tearing on Linux though, you need to set an option in some file can't remember where exactly
<puck>
heat: the kde people have a fix! also discord should update their electron
<nikolar>
Arch wiki for the rescue
<zid>
nikolar: shame I need to fix it on windows then
<geist>
zid: i have never seen windows tearing, ever
<bslsk05>
invent.kde.org: System / XWayland Video Bridge · GitLab
<zid>
windows has torn since dwm was invoked and w10 still tears
<nikolar>
Shame indeed
<puck>
Ermine: hey at least they don't do the Zoom thing
<zid>
put a youtube video behind a pdf viewer
<heat>
puck, i think the AUR has discords with newer electrons?
<zid>
scroll the pdf viewer
<geist>
zid: that sounds like a broken install, bad hardware, bad drivers, something
<zid>
the exact bounding box of the youtube video will update a frame late
<zid>
for the past 15 years
<geist>
oh, that's not windows tearing, that's just the app being slow
<puck>
Ermine: of saying "hi i am Gnome Screenshots and i would like to do 30 screenshots per second"
<geist>
wwindows tearing is like you drag the window and it tears
<zid>
It tears, it is tearing
<geist>
within the app, sure. if it's slow to update, etc
<nikolar>
Lol unpacking default discord and stuffing it into newer electron
<geist>
pdf tearing is just need a bigger computer or a better pdf viewer
<zid>
their dirty rectangle alg gets out of sync with itself
* geist
shrugs
<zid>
the *pdf* isn't tearing, the *rendering* is tearing
<geist>
hell i see that everywhere, except maybe mac
<Ermine>
puck: what did zoom devs smoke?
<heat>
crack
<puck>
Ermine: workarounds
<geist>
but then mayb ei see it less since i run on a 144hz screen
<zid>
okay this alt-space thing works, I just need to.. undo 20 years of ctrl-esc
<puck>
zid: or map it over >:3
<geist>
so tearing there of any type is less pronounced
<zid>
I want ctrl-esc still though I think
<puck>
Ermine: the one that takes the least amount of mental effort because do you think Zoom can afford Linux devs
<zid>
maybe
<Ermine>
They can say "we do not support Linux" as well and do not spend money on linux devs at all
<puck>
Ermine: also the gnome devs did fuck up by not properly restricting the screenshot interface, to some degree
<puck>
tho it's hard to protect against internal API abuse
<heat>
Ermine, yes and then linux people complain that MICRO$HIT WINBLOW$ (or ZoomShitWinBlows) doesn't care about linux!
<heat>
at least it works
<puck>
i kinda wonder how well the xwayland video bridge works
<geist>
oh yeah never thought that zoom might not work on linux, i assumed it had a linux port because.
<Ermine>
heat: those people will always complain at something?
<Ermine>
s/?//
<geist>
can you zoom from a browser though?
<puck>
sometimes
gog has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<Ermine>
You have zoom on linux? Wayland when? pipewire when? flatpak when? $newshinytech when?
<Ermine>
RIIR when?
<puck>
zoom does wayland/pipewire nowadays (but also checks if it runs on GNOME because fuck you), and there's a flatpak for it
<Ermine>
flatpak is unofficial afaik
<puck>
yes
<puck>
but it exists :p
<heat>
FREEBSD WHEN
<puck>
just run wayland and pipewire on freebsd
<Ermine>
But anyway, if some other technology will be released, people would start demanding supporting it. Wayland and PW are examples here
<heat>
i demand a sane desktop experience
<heat>
i'll never get it on linux
<puck>
tbf i think a lot of projects still use pulseaudio even on pipewire
<heat>
KDE is garbo, GNOME is garbo
<Ermine>
puck: moreover, pipewire devs advice using pulseaudio api
<Ermine>
KDE is not so garbo
<puck>
heat: when my desktop fell over (due to what i thought was a gpu failure but was actually a psu failure, which i figured out *after* buying a new gpu) i ended up running fedora+gnome for the lols and it sure was an experience
<heat>
in all honesty if my desktop was just a chrome instance i'd be happy-ish
<puck>
i kinda wonder what the kde ux is like these days
<heat>
Ermine, my KDE sometimes starts randomly flickering
<puck>
at least it's not tearing,
<heat>
I truly appreciate the "do you have epilepsy" tests
<heat>
also firefox on wayland is broken
<puck>
..how?
<Ermine>
Idk, I changed my gpu to amd and my experience became smooth
<puck>
Ermine: both were amd cards! my experience with nvidia cards is .. weird
<heat>
puck, weird flickering, sometimes the text cursor decides to disa-fucking-pear in the middle of writing in a text box
<heat>
so I switched to chrome and it Just Works fine!
<puck>
tbf this feels like the experience a coworker has when hotplugging two external monitors on a laptop with nvidia graphics (and eDP-1 routed to intel gpu)
<puck>
heat: hrm, are both running on EGL?
<Ermine>
firefox can't get its sharing indicator right on wayland
<puck>
oh yeah that one is fun in sway
<heat>
puck, idunno
<puck>
heat: modern firefox uses EGL for both X and wayland, so it really shouldn't change behavior
<heat>
all I know is that hurr durr evil chrome bad gogle!!!!1!1 works so much better than firefox
<heat>
a good bit faster too
<Ameisen>
Turns out that MSVC cannot take an array of unions and return just a value, it will always dereference. Or take an array (that is constexpr/constinit) and just cast the address to something else. Always emits a memory read.
<Ermine>
I use sway for a month on fedora 38, and it works quite smoothly
<Ameisen>
Clang and GCC handle that case fine
<heat>
everything in FOSS desktop is at least slightly broken
<puck>
heat: is everything on macOS / Windows perfectly working?
<heat>
i don't know
<puck>
(the answer is no)
<Ermine>
Nowadays I get artifacts when doing WiDi
<heat>
my windows and macOS experiences were a lot more polished
<bnchs>
Ameisen: do not use MSVC
<heat>
and i'm telling you this as a person that cannot use macOS to save his life
<Ameisen>
bnchs: easier said that done.
<Ameisen>
this is just a rather critical part of things here.
<bnchs>
lol, if you wanna port a program to windows, use mingw with GCC
<Ameisen>
I would usually just use clang-cl
<Ermine>
my windows experience was super polished in the times of winXP and win7, nowadays my linux experience == my windows experience more or less
<Ameisen>
the resulting object code with LTO isn't compatible with MSVC though
<heat>
puck, it turns out when the tiny FOSS desktop community fragments itself into stupid little opinionated bits, you get dog crap wrapped in cat shit
<Ameisen>
thus it causes compatibility issues
<puck>
heat: eh, KDE and Gnome are both pretty big groups
<puck>
my issue is i'm pretty sure i've gotten very used to all the quirks of all the big OSes
<puck>
so i can't really go "oh [experience] is smoother"
<Ermine>
but actually every os sucks
<bnchs>
Ameisen: well i think Clang has a MSVC compatibility mode
<puck>
Ermine: except haiku,,
<heat>
yes, use Onyx
<Ameisen>
It does, but that doesn't change the bitcode output :)
<Ameisen>
that's always going to be LLVM bitcode for clang
<heat>
i wholeheartedly admit that it sucks. period.
<heat>
you know what you're getting upfront!
<Ameisen>
basically means you cannot make a static library that supports LTO/LTCG with clang-cl to be consumed by MSVC.
<Ermine>
heat: so you are the most honest osdev out there
<heat>
absolutely
<puck>
just use clang with mimcrossoft codegen,
<puck>
(Clang/C2 i think is very dead now)
<heat>
should you use linux instead? yes. windows? yes macos? yes freebsd? absolutely not, what the fuck
<Ameisen>
Clang with Microsoft Codegen is Clang/C2
<puck>
yes
<Ameisen>
but yeah, it's very dead though
<Ameisen>
I'd rather MSVC just handle this annoying vase
<Ameisen>
case*
<heat>
bug report?
<Ameisen>
there's basically _no_ way aside from doing a struct that has a member function that shift/ors to make this work
<Ameisen>
it's not a bug per se - it's perfectly valid output
<Ameisen>
just very sub-optimal
<heat>
sounds like a bug to me
<nikolar>
Pessimal
<Ameisen>
if I were to report every case where MSVC generated suboptimal code, they'd be very rapidly overwhelmed.
<heat>
haha is this a mjg moment
<heat>
Ameisen, have you seen arm64 msvc division? :v
<Ameisen>
I've not.
<heat>
Ameisen, i like windows 11 and the centered