klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<zid> You need to find the correct truck-kun first
<sakasama> Oh dear, too many memes. I am not sufficiently expert.
<sakasama> Seems dubious.
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<gog> freebase? no i said REbase
<sham1> FreeBSDbase
<gog> smoking crack instead of working on freebsd sounds good
* sakasama smokes freebsd.
<sakasama> Ah, the joy of healthy compromise.
<mjg> in freebsd land fentanyl snorts you
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
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<gog> Ermine: yes
* Ermine pets gog
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<heat> kernel operating system development osdev linux freebsd openbsd solaris
<lav> so true
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<heat> i am now an seo bot
<lav> that's valid
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<heat> thank you lav, i feel validated now
<lav> I'm happy to help.
<lav> mow :3
<gog> User-agent: heatBot
<gog> Disallow /
<heat> who's that heatBot fella? do I have competition now?
<gog> opernating systme
<gog> i know assembly
<lav> dveloupment
* lav disassembles gog
<gog> gog disassemble
<heat> gog u learn assembly now? like the ihatethinking fella?
<gog> yes
<gog> i don't understand it but i learned it
<heat> good
<heat> geeks2geeks assembly tutorial where
<bslsk05> ​www.geeksforgeeks.org: Introduction of Assembler - GeeksforGeeks
<gog> gekes5keegs
<gog> the builder across the street is using a laser level and he shined it directly into my eye
<gog> i don't think it was on purpose but breh
<zid`> it'll only be a milliwat jobbie
<Ermine> use mirror
<zid`> I had a 50mW laser that was fu
<zid`> n
<gog> yeh i'm sur it can't do me any harm from 30m away but it startled me :P
<zid`> You could point it at people's eyes through walls
<heat> has anyone seen zid?
<gog> no
<gog> psure zid is unseeable
<zid`> no
<zid`> try sending him zoomer memes and see if he complains
<zid`> if he does, he's awake
<heat> sorry, i cant find good genz memes
<bslsk05> ​www.reddit.com: Reddit - Dive into anything
<zid`> I posted a comment
<zid`> bonus points if you get the reference
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<heat> oh look its zid wtf
<heat> "good luck(?)"
<heat> GOOD FUCKING LUCK
<zid`> gog: Do you want to join my science based 100% dragon mmo?
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<heat> zid`, wow that's an obscure-ass reference
<zid`> one of the most upvoted reddit threads of all time? not really
<zid`> well, commented on
<zid`> it was a huge meme
<gog> zid`: yes
<nortti> when was that? I used to use reddit a fair bit but never heard of it
<zid`> used to 11 years ago?
<nortti> ah, before my time then
<zid`> before heat was born
<nortti> (2014~2016ish I'd say I was most active)
<zid`> My account is.. 14 years old, but I didn't register for a good while
<gog> i was active on reddit until like 2019
<gog> i was a moderator on a very large sub and it destroyed my mental health
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<gog> ugh my git branch is all tangled
<heat> omg omg a reddit mod!!
<zid`> rebase all the things
<heat> are you a discord mod too
<lav> have you tried combing it?
<zid`> gog: i didn't know you were fat and ugly :o
<gog> i'm not ugly
<heat> how much do you like preteen girls
<gog> lmfao god
<zid`> omg was it r/jailbait
<gog> no
<gog> i am not violentacrez
<zid`> shame
<nortti> wait that still existed in 2019?
<gog> no
<gog> i can't remember when all of that was finally nixed
<gog> but it was well before that
<zid`> it was r/egg_irl
<gog> i was never a moderator of any trans subs
<zid`> It was r/eggs_irl
<zid`> about eggs
<gog> lol
<heat> r/The_Donald for sure
<gog> yes
<gog> you figured it out
<zid`> r/fffffffu
<zid`> gog a big rage comic fan
<sakasama> I'm ugly. If I get fat, can I be mod?
<gog> i used to ba a MAGA chud before gender happened to me
<zid`> I've never had gender happen to me :(
<gog> aw there there
<zid`> I just inherited one
<sakasama> Same. It was horror ever since.
<zid`> sounds like gender happened to you
<lav> Nice gender, nerd! Did your mom picked it out for you?
<zid`> Yea that's basically it
<zid`> I also feel that way about socks
<zid`> much happier if someone else buys it for me
<sakasama> I wore my sister's clothes when I was a baby, then they told me I was too ugly for them.
<zid`> The realities of being trans for me wouldn't be "do I want to be a woman?" it'd be do I want to be an *ugly* woman :p
<heat> sakasama, holy shit
<sakasama> Yes. That's how it works for the uglies.
<heat> you got fucking rekt
<zid`> my face has CHARACTER
<zid`> as in, it looks like someone threw acid on it
<heat> have you considered freebsd development
<sakasama> You'll fit right in! When's the last time you bathed?
<zid`> what's that
<zid`> idk, december?
<sakasama> You should be ripe enough.
<sakasama> We can begin.
<zid`> what are we doing? :o
<sakasama> I don't know yet, but I'm certain it will be traumatic.
<zid`> neat
<sakasama> Roll this d100 to select a random event from my childhood...
<gog> ok ok i think i untangled this branch
<zid`> did you use rebase
<gog> yes
<zid`> rebase -i $initial_commit
<zid`> sqush everything
<zid`> "Initial commit"
<gog> but i had to manually excise an unrelated commit from master because i was a dummy and i rebased to it earlier today
* sakasama sometimes has nightmares about git.
<gog> sakasama: lemme tell you about the times reflog has saved my ass
<gog> huge changeset and i nuked it all by accident
<gog> thankfully it wasn't pruned yet
<lav> $ man git-reflog ;; ohh ref-log, not re-flog
<gog> i was prepared to jump out the window behind that
<zid`> reflog is my BDSM sex dungeon name
<sakasama> I've never actually done that.
<lav> flogging?
<zid`> bsdm sex dungeoneering?
<sakasama> Usually I'll end up eating inordinate amounts of time reading about flags and searching stackoverflow.
<zid`> I just only ever commit push and pull, easier
<sakasama> I haven't done any bdsm either, though I've been recommended to join "the littles" which I'm too terrified to consider.
<zid`> I'd join a club full of little people no questions asked
<gog> operating system develpobept
<gog> .þþþþþ
<gog> þróun st+yrikerfis
<zid`> gog's having a stroke
<heat> gog, hi how much operating system do u want to develop today
<sakasama> Except they're not little people: they're big people acting like they think little people would in some bdsm context.
<gog> i don't
<zid`> what the fuck
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<gog> ok as soon as i submit this PR i am going to go home
<heat> GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE CHANNEL THEN
<sakasama> gog: Did your stack overflow?
<heat> WE DO OPERATING SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT, EXCLUSIVELY
<gog> i sometimes want to do ospery develpment
<gog> sakasama: yes
<zid`> osprey development is raising chicks
<zid`> presumably
<zid`> or military aircraft
<gog> if it's the military aircraft it'll grow up to crash and kill US marines
<zid`> No
<zid`> US vehicles kill *british* soldiers
<gog> not in this case
<heat> US soldiers kill US soldiers
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<heat> pat tillman moment
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<gog> nice, i deleted more code than i added
<gog> love when that happens
<zid`> The trick is to delete the good code, then add less, worse code
<heat> US military "avoid shooting friendlies" challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
<zid`> it's the fastest way to improve the ratio
<gog> i'm deleting the bad code and adding less, marginally better code
<gog> and unweaving the tangled mess of interdependencies between our applications
<gog> fucking OOP
<heat> gog you're a good software developer
<gog> i am sometimes
<gog> i'm still pushing el jefe to do a bug bash on our sales front
<gog> it's so brittle
<gog> every change we make fucking brakes something halfway across the thing
<zid`> gog your english is very good btw
<gog> takk kærleiga
<zid`> pretty good for a third language
<heat> déjame hablar con tu jefe
<heat> hola jefe, gog quiere hacer un bug bash, por favor
<gog> el jefe vayase a casa
<zid`> gog is a queer haver, a bug bash, as a favor
<gog> pasado quarenta minutos
<gog> cuarenta
<gog> yo hablo ekki spænsku
<heat> omg quarenta
<heat> are you portugal?????
<gog> no but i understand my portuguese-speaking co-workers' spanish more than my boss'
<zid`> Heat I am out of vindaloo, what do I do now
<zid`> what do portugal people do, start eating seagulls?
<gog> ok i'm going now
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<heat> zid`, nandos
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<zid`> figured it out, egg fried rice
<zid`> actually might be my best attempt
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<zid`> gog whose serve is it
<gog> idk
<zid`> heat: gog says you're on the bottom bunk tonight
<gog> bottom text
<gog> 'alæsdfjæadljga'
<zid`> bottom freebsd user
<zid`> I suppose that's redundant
<gog> don't insult bottoms like that
<zid`> they're not *all* freebsd users I'm sure
<zid`> there's just a high correlation
<gog> lav: are you a freebsd user
<lav> no
<lav> but i've considered trying it
<zid`> experimented in college
<zid`> but it wasn't for you
<lav> >_>
<gog> <_<
<lav> completely irrelevant to this, but how come blood is so tasty
<zid`> ...you're a vampire congurations
<zid`> or have an iron deficiency
<lav> yay
<sakasama> It's actually a decent beverage with a distinctive flavour for each species.
<sakasama> Mammals are a better source of beverages than food.
<zid`> yea nah
<zid`> a cow has 350kg of meat on it, 40L of blood
<sakasama> Yes, but the blood is renewable without needing to wait for another reproduction cycle. If you cut the thigh off of a cow, it doesn't grow back.
<lav> oi 'a's real bri'ish food innit
<zid`> good news, cows grow more cows
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com: cows & cows & cows - YouTube
<sakasama> Yes, but so slowly! ... and their blood is so smooth and refreshing.
<zid`> not even slowly
<zid`> I eat cows much slower than they grow
<zid`> 350kg is a lot of cow to eat
<sakasama> I have a large appetite.
<zid`> 2500kCal/kg too, so that 1kg/day contains more than you need calorie wise
<zid`> not sure I'd want my diet to be 800g of cow a day, every day, and nothing else though :p
<lav> that's weak
<sakasama> It's okay, you can make smoothies too.
<zid`> I think it'd be a "lumpy" rather than a smootie
<zid`> lumpie
<sakasama> You need a more powerful blender, running a custom OS.
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<kof123> this chat has confused cow tools cow...congrats?
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<sakasama> kof123: Did you mean "cows gratis"? Showing search results for <something you don't want to see>.
<kof123> Cow Tools - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org and you can label "autoconf" or whatever else
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<gog> i'm eating plants
<GeDaMo> Chocolate comes from plants, right? :|
<gog> yes
<gog> but it also comes from slave labor
<zid`> do chickens count as "eating plants", it's just.. heavily processed
<gog> technically you're just eating solar radiation
<gog> huh it's like if you took all the wet out of skyr
<gog> wet your drys, dry your wets
<gog> then you dust those wets
<lav> wet his drys is what is what "wesley" "so" does when he sees Tigran L. Petrosian
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<heat> lav, YOU WAS DOING PIPI IN YOUR PAMPERS
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<heat> WHEN I WAS WRITING OPERATING SYSTEM
<mjg> chess reference
<mjg> noice
<mjg> that was so bad i had difficulty believing it is real
<mjg> also i'm pretty sure the quote is wrong
<lav> omg people understood it \:3/
<heat> mjg, are you an avid r/anarchychess user
<mjg> nah, their trolling only rarely vibed with me
<lav> i like it but i think that says mkre about me
<lav> more*
<lav> <small>phone keyboards are transphobic
<heat> i've spent more time on chess recently
<heat> although I don't go past anonymous 1/3min lichess games cuz then I get pissed
<lav> years ago i used to play chess "for real" but it got too serious
<heat> yes chess is a silly game and should be left as a silly game
<heat> my issue is that I fucking hate losing
<heat> so I obviously get wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too pissed at a fucking nerd game
<lav> i remember reading some mediaeval manuscript that explained how you need to be just good enough at chess, but not so good you're a nerd
<zid`> I just don't have enough focus to get good at thing anymore
<mjg> i heard it used to be bad manners to not know how to play
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<heat> those chess mofos are all way too elitist
<heat> there were lots saying that streamers shouldn't stream chess because they're bad at it
<heat> when that huge chess boom happened in 2020
<zid`> can we stop heat from reporting what zoomers think about people older than them, somehow
<moon-child> I have a vague memory of doug16k's saying that physical memory below 1mb (or 2mb?) is slow; is that right?
<zid`> might be if it's all rom and virtualized and shit
<zid`> but I doubt it
<mjg> heat: personally i recommend just not playing
<heat> moon-child, no.
<zid`> how do you make it slower without fucking up the memory busses
<heat> it was a thing about caching on <1GB physical
<moon-child> idk I'm just quoting doug16k
<moon-child> who is a very trustworthy source
<moon-child> heat: caching on <1gb physical? o.o that's a lot
<heat> there's a hack on intel x86 where you can have multiple mappings with multiple caching modes and it Just Works for that legacy 1G range
<moon-child> oh
<moon-child> but you could just not do that
<heat> whereas it's totally undefined for the rest of physical space
<heat> well, the slight slowness came from that hack's handling specifically
<heat> (IIRC)
* moon-child nods
<heat> does it matter? fuck do I know
<moon-child> seems somewhat unreasonable to skip the low 1gb though
<\Test_User> could use it last, and prefer the rest
<heat> "If two adjoining pages in memory have different memory types, and a word or longer operand is written to a
<heat> memory twice. This action does not present a problem for writes to actual memory; however, if a device is mapped
<heat> memory location that crosses the page boundary between those two pages, the operand might be written to
<heat> to the memory space assigned to the pages, the device might malfunction."
<heat> haha this is cute
<moon-child> poor device!
<heat> moon-child, sorry, not 1GiB, but 4MiB :p
<heat> it applies when the processor detects a large page that conflicts with the MTRR, the processor just maps your large page as multiple 4KiB pages
<heat> because in theory if you have a large page then all its memory needs to have the same caching mode, which is not likely in those lower megs of physical memory
<heat> it's 11.11.9 in my local SDM
<heat> i am wondering if going down the 32-bit support path makes any sense
<heat> particularly when it comes to riscv. the other stuff is either too embedded(arm) or legacy(x86)
<zid`> for what
<heat> my OS, so a general purpose UNIX
<zid`> oh, god no
<heat> facts: 1) riscv support should be relatively trivial to make work for 32-bit, it's essentially the same but the width of registers is cut in half
<heat> 2) riscv32 boards are much more affordable and should be kind of useful still?
<zid`> port it to 6502 then
<zid`> those are cheap and limited also
<heat> the big problem with fuckin 32-bit is all the UAPI stuff
<moon-child> 32-bit userspace on 64-bit kernel, or just 32-bit kernel?
<heat> 32bit kernel
<heat> and lfs support and offset stuff and then physical addresses are (or should be) larger than your native pointer size
<moon-child> heat: 4mb--more reasonable, but what about 1g pages?
<heat> all really awkward issues I haven't had the pleasure of tackling bcuz 64-bit
<heat> moon-child, still applies, but I'm not sure *how*
<heat> does it break up that MTRR'd range with 4KiB and do 2MiB large pages for the rest? probably not, but I can't tell honestly
<heat> the SDM's wording seems a little vague here, but i'm not a native english speaker so it's totally possible there's something I'm missing
<zid`> shall I translate it into spanish for you
<moon-child> it's the intel manual; of course it's vague
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<heat> zid`, sí por favor señor zid
<zid`> tough shit
<gog> hi
<heat> gog yo necesito de traducción
<heat> tu eres mi gordo americano favorito
<zid`> pagitabledad sono estas banana
* moon-child pets gog
<moon-child> chonker
* gog prr
<heat> siesta
<zid`> I just woke up from siesta
<gog> i actually know my mass and it's a great number
<gog> a nicec number if you prefer
<zid`> mine is 69kg
<gog> yes
<zid`> (not joking)
<gog> same actually
<sham1> nice
<heat> i hope you understand how hard spanish is for me
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<heat> i do struggle to speak this fucking cursed language
<gog> i do
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<gog> there are three portuguese-speaking people in the office and four spanish-speaking people
<zid`> in iceland
<heat> it's like misspelt portuguese m8
<zid`> an english majority country
<gog> the spanish-speakers don't deign to try to speak portuguese but the portuguese speakers speak great spanish
<sham1> Iceland isn't English-majority country though. They actually do speak Icelandic, it's not a made-up thing
<heat> is no one in iceland icelandic?
<gog> zid`: we útlendingar outnumber the icelanders
<gog> at least in the office
<gog> we're a tourism firm so
<sham1> Ah, tourism. Makes sense then
<zid`> english majority.
<zid`> most common spoken language
<heat> gog, in general portuguese people just fucking wing it and get some really weird mix of portuguese and spanish
<gog> two of the spanish-speakers are catalan so they do too
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<zid`> heat: just speak english instead, as a communal language
<heat> in general I try to double check against google if what I'm saying is actually correct
<gog> me i just barely understand most of the conversations happening in the office at any given time
<gog> i'm the only american and native english speaker :P
<zid`> 'native'
<heat> OI ONLY ZID SPEAKS PROPAH ENGLISH BRUV
<gog> ingerland has 4484 different dialects of english bruv
<gog> america has like 20
<zid`> next you'll be telling me singlish is english
<gog> and they're mostly the same
<zid`> la
<heat> that's not true
<gog> i talk american
<gog> 1. i drive a big truck 2. i eat cheeseburgers all 5 meals of the day
<heat> you have the new york mob boss accent, the boston mob boss accent, the texas, the deep south alabama, the valley girl, and default
<gog> i speak default because i was raised on tv
<zid`> appalacian
<gog> 3. carry an assault rifle
<gog> actually 3 is based
<zid`> I don't trust americans to own guns, you've continually demonstrated you can't be trusted with them
<heat> least gun loving american
<heat> zid`, just cause british soldiers keep getting shot? come on
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<sakasama> We use guns for way more things than target practice on Brits.
<zid`> Like target practice on children
<sakasama> Yes. They don't even need to be British.
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<heat> "I also prefer not/and/or vs !/&&/||. Makes the code a tad bit more readable."
<heat> Note: do not browse r/cpp
<zid`> it's self selecting
<zid`> if you like C++ you have bad opinions definitionally
<klange> i like `not` and `!` which is why my language has both
<klange> (they have different precedence)
<klange> (`not` has... weird precedence in Python; Python doesn't have ! so I was free to make it have less-weird precedence)
<heat> not is definitely a python thing
<heat> unless you have a /really/ weird keyboard/charset
<zid`> like .pt
<heat> cry
<zid`> I've tried to type on onyx, it's incredibly weird
<zid`> how do you even type slashes
<heat> shift+7
<heat> or numpad ofc
<zid`> do you know where they are on a normal layout
<heat> no fucking clue
<zid`> next to left shift, and next to right shift
<zid`> full ass buttons
<klange> where can I get me an onyx
<heat> my github actions
<zid`> because it cannot be built on a normal machine
<klange> the last build of master is from 3 weeks ago and failed
<klange> what branch should I be looking at?
<heat> it failed bcuz running qemu tests is busted for some reason
<klange> you have a million artifacts, which one do I want?
<heat> it's mildly annoying how every single one just fails
<heat> onyx.iso
<heat> zid`, it can be built on a normal machine
<zid`> just not mine
<heat> it just has an exotic build setup which I need to fix one day
<zid`> which is abnormal in having every tool possible
<zid`> but not the weird one you wanted
<heat> what did you not have? gn?
<zid`> some weird isobuilder that wasn't mkisofs
<heat> ohhhhhhhhh right, you don't have grub-mkrescue
<zid`> yea I never installed the tools to reinstall its own bootloader cus it always had one
<zid`> I think it's using grub 0.97 still from when I first made it
<heat> yeah, onyx only supports grub2
<zid`> I don't have the grub 0.97 tools either
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<zid`> you can't build them with an fpie defaulting compiler
<zid`> and nobody's updated the makefiles to work
<zid`> so it's just masked in gentoo now
<klange> You should be able to install the grub2 tools without, like, installing grub2.
<klange> There are even windows builds for most of them!
<zid`> I could yea
<zid`> easily infact, gentoo doesn't run random programs just cus you installed them
<zid`> that's sort of the main part of gentoo
<klange> i thought the main part of gentoo was that package installation was [generally] package building?
<klange> and that tends to involve running lots of random programs
<zid`> why random ones?
<zid`> also it's all done in a jail shell and then the final results are copied back to the fs
<zid`> and marked by the package manager for who they belong to
<zid`> and you have to resolve conflicts in /etc yourself via diff
<zid`> The point before was, just because you've installed the "selinux" utils or whatever, doesn't magically make your system a selinux one (there's a process for doing that though)
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<bnchs> hi osdev
<bnchs> today, i'm thinking of overcomplicating my memory map implemntation
<bnchs> for the sake of performance!
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