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<glenda64>
Does anybody know of a (preemptive, not RTOS) OS that can run with very little RAM/ROM and is usable over a serial console?
<glenda64>
"Very little" meaning 128K of RAM and 8M of ROM
<heat>
probably geist's littlekernel
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<geist>
Yeah that should be useful. Depends on what you want to do with it
<glenda64>
It's an emulator project. That is a good suggestion, thank you
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<heat>
geist, btw quick question: what am I supposed to do wrt IO ranges when configuring the bus on platforms where I have no IO ports?
<heat>
my test device is a virtio-net-pci (I know I know, there are mmio variants for these devices)
<heat>
context: PCIe bus configuration
<heat>
are these just permanently unusable?
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<geist>
Yeah I think so
<geist>
Or.. actually they’re emulated by a device-specific mechanism
<geist>
In the case of qemu-virt for arm (and i think riscv) the id ports end up mapped in a 64k mmio region
<geist>
But that’s outside the PCI’s configuration knowledge, it just carves up IO as anything else, and it’s up to the individual drivers to know that if it had an IO bar it needs to use the mmio window instead of an instruction
<heat>
hrm, is that one of those device tree range things?
<geist>
Yah possibly
<geist>
I just hard coded it per platform in LK, but it worked iirc
<heat>
I see
<heat>
that's a fun hack isn't it
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<ornx>
is there an easy way to get ovmf to automatically boot FS0:\EFI\BOOTX64.EFI without prompting me? (in qemu)
<heat>
you need to supply OVMF_VARS too
<heat>
instead of doing -bios OVMF.fd, you do -device if=pflash,format=raw,unit=0,file=OVMF_CODE.fd -device if=pflash,format=raw,unit=1,OVMF_VARS.fd
<ornx>
that's what i have, but it still drops me to the shell
<pog>
i shouldn't be bored but this project drags on when i thought i was done
<pog>
and it's friday afternoon and i'm drowsy
<Freja>
i was working but now im waiting for a bugfix PR which blocks the main tihng im working on
<Freja>
and also it's fridya
<FireFly>
yesterday was effectively friday for me
<pog>
psure my boss is off drinking he said he was takinga long lunch and it's a holiday in spain today
<FireFly>
yay living in the religious part of this country :p
<FireFly>
(it's epiphany or something, public holiday anyway)
<pog>
yes
<Freja>
i thought its the $n kings day or some shit
<FireFly>
oh idk, maybe
<Freja>
idk im not religious
<FireFly>
same
<FireFly>
all I know is I get a random day in the first week of the year off
<Freja>
unless you count paganism as a religion
<FireFly>
and I'm not complaining
<FireFly>
Freja: belated happy winter solstice :p
<Freja>
FireFly: is it a holiday in bayern
<FireFly>
ye
<Freja>
lucky
<Freja>
im working
<FireFly>
lucky, but also made it "fun" yesterday due to the CircleCI troubles
<Freja>
but tbh i prefer to live in a good secular (ok sorta protestantish) northern germany
<FireFly>
also
<FireFly>
Freja: hey it's your day
<FireFly>
(friday)
<Freja>
yeah that's why i /nicked like this
<Freja>
:D
<FireFly>
aha
<Freja>
:3
<Freja>
happy my day
<FireFly>
tomorrow it's time for /nick Saturnus? :p
<FireFly>
well if going by english day names
<Freja>
if i was goin by english i should technically be Frigg rn
<FireFly>
oh fair
<Freja>
fredag is derived from Freyja
<Freja>
but friday comes from Frigg apparently
<FireFly>
isn't it just different latinisation of the same name?
<FireFly>
I'm not sure
<Freja>
i thought it's a different AEsir but im not 100% sure honestly
<FireFly>
wiktionary for sv:fredag says "From Old Norse frjádagr, from late Proto-West Germanic *Frījā dag (“day of Frigg”), a Germanic calque of the Latin dies Veneris (“friday”)." at least
<Freja>
some sources appear to claim they're one and hte same
<bslsk05>
skarnet.org: skalibs: a C library for system programming
<heat>
yeah it has no comments
<kaichiuchi>
unrelated
<Ermine>
I submitted a doc page
<Ermine>
I've
<kaichiuchi>
but how did DOS programs handle GUI stuff
<kaichiuchi>
there probably almost certainly wasn’t a GUI thing
<heat>
VGA framebuffer go brr
<kaichiuchi>
API
<Ermine>
heat is right
<kaichiuchi>
right
<Ermine>
DOS is basically BIOS but there's int 21h which is not as capable as BIOS
<kaichiuchi>
i’m having fun writing ANSI C again
<kaichiuchi>
come to daddy kaichiuchi
<heat>
sus
<kaichiuchi>
shut up
<kaichiuchi>
:(
<heat>
wanna contribute to my os
<kaichiuchi>
maybe
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<kaichiuchi>
always looking to add something cool on my resume
<Ermine>
pretty sus-compliant
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<Ermine>
sus unix specification
<heat>
amogus unix
<kaichiuchi>
“i rm -rf’d an OS making it infinitely better”
<heat>
"i graverobbed kaichiuchi"
<Ermine>
So
<kaichiuchi>
but seriously
<Ermine>
Why do you want to program under DOS?
<kaichiuchi>
there’s something strangely primal about something from before i was born compiling my shit
<kaichiuchi>
Ermine: porting game boy emulator to 486
<Ermine>
Hey, Linux still support 486
<Ermine>
supports
<kaichiuchi>
i don’t think it would actually boot
<kaichiuchi>
also google says it doesn’t anymore
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<Ermine>
gentoo maybe will. But ok
<kaichiuchi>
Ermine: man come on you don’t think it would be the coolest shit ever to have a game boy emulator running at full speed on some of the worst hardware ever
<kaichiuchi>
:(
<Ermine>
having it running would be cool shit already
<kaichiuchi>
there is someone who wrote one in 1990 in full assembly
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<kaichiuchi>
works mostly fine
<kaichiuchi>
but i’m willing to make a bet that a modern compiler can generate better code than a 100% assembly written program in the 90s
<kaichiuchi>
that wording was botched but you get it
<Ermine>
Yeah
<heat>
i don't think they've dropped 486 yet
<heat>
they did drop 386
<kaichiuchi>
i think the real straight up performance issues are going to come from audio handling
<Ermine>
heat: I think literally everybody enable various MMX/SSE stuff which isn't available on 486
<kaichiuchi>
there’s almost certainly not enough RAM for a JIT
<Ermine>
Well, MMX no more
<heat>
doesn't matter, linux itself doesn't require a pentium
<kaichiuchi>
well maybe there’s enough
<heat>
the kernel
<kaichiuchi>
32MB of ram in some cases
<kaichiuchi>
i would expect that the generated functions would be fairly tiny
<Ermine>
kaichiuchi: guy tried to run Gentoo, audio works more or less with bare alsa as long as nobody talks with other daemons on the same system
<kaichiuchi>
i see
<zid>
sounds like oss rather than alsa
<kaichiuchi>
and honestly I don’t know how clever I can be with Z80 -> x86
<Ermine>
they used alsamixer
<kaichiuchi>
how many gprs are on x86?
<kaichiuchi>
8
<kaichiuchi>
there are 8 8-bit GPRs on x86
<kaichiuchi>
er
<kaichiuchi>
z80*
<kaichiuchi>
so I think I have an idea on how to do this…
<heat>
jit time?
<kaichiuchi>
no not even remotely close to that yet
<kaichiuchi>
first I just want to get it working
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<ddevault>
anyone have an rpi3 or rpi4 they can send my way on short notice?
<heat>
lol
<heat>
want some gold bars too?
<heat>
:P
<ddevault>
well, I'll send it back when I'm done lol
<ddevault>
my backpack was stolen off of a train on new years with my rpi4 in it
<heat>
aw :(
<ddevault>
planned to use it for a talk at FOSDEM in february, still need to finish porting to it
<ddevault>
so I need one ASAP
<heat>
do you not have rpi400 nearby?
<heat>
I think those are the only ones they're making right now
<ddevault>
maybe I can find one
<ddevault>
I also found a source for rpi3 500 MiB at an extortionate price but the lead time is alarming given my timeframe
<heat>
rpi4 are absolutely unobtanium
<heat>
also rpi zero 2 w are a thing
<ddevault>
rpi400 all sold out
<heat>
cheap af and are basically AIUI rpi3
<ddevault>
maybe that'd work
<ornx>
on x86 with EFI you still get a framebuffer at 0xA0000, right?
<ddevault>
if you're using EFI you should set up a framebuffer with GOP
<ornx>
won't it be gone after you exit EFI boot services though?
<heat>
ornx, probably, but I don't think you're VGA enabled at that point
<heat>
no
<ddevault>
yeah it'll still work after EFI's gone
<ornx>
ahh i see
<zid>
you might be in the wrong video mode, but the vga card is still snooping those addresses for pixels om nom
<heat>
(some?) traditional GPUs invariably still have legacy VGA support
<zid>
no matter what you do really
<ddevault>
rpi0 also out of stock everywhere -_-
<ddevault>
gdi
<heat>
zid, but do they work when you're not in a VGA video mode?
<zid>
it's just whether it bothers to draw them
<zid>
which means mode setting ega/cga/vga etc
<ddevault>
woot friend agreed to mail theirs to me
<heat>
noice
<ddevault>
rpi3 though so I have to rejigger my port a bit
<ddevault>
and subtract another few days from the time I have to prepare for FOSDEM
<heat>
are you talking about your project at FOSDEM?
<ddevault>
wheeeee
<ddevault>
yeah, I hope so
<ddevault>
doing a talk about hare moreso than helios
<ddevault>
the idea is to present the slidedeck from helios and midway through the talk reveal that the whole thing is running from a device running only Hare code
<Ermine>
Tfw when they are still posting invitations to Minix ML
<ddevault>
lame fallback involves booting linux and showing my PDF :(
<heat>
ddevault, that would be fucking nuts
<ddevault>
aarch64 port of helios is about 70% done in qemu
<Ermine>
On long-term side, seems like Quartz64 is not out of stock (though they are more expensive)
<heat>
if things fail just boot helios on qemu aarch64
<ddevault>
need to do the last 30%, port userspace, test and verify everything on real hardware (<= the problem), and then write a little GPU driver and stuff all my slides as images in the initramfs
<Ermine>
Hopefully Netherlands post service is fast and reliable enough
<ddevault>
if I do manage it, it'll make for a nice slide to brag about porting the kernel to aarch64 inside of 2 months
<ddevault>
fallback is "forget about porting your kernel, just write a new kernel whose job is just to render a slidedeck in EL1", but I'm all in on doing it properly at this point
<heat>
also you're technically lying
<heat>
tianocore is C and still present
<heat>
:))
<heat>
harefi when?
<Ermine>
?
<ddevault>
once I exit efi boot services it's not :)
<ddevault>
in any case firmware doesn't count
<heat>
yes it is?
<heat>
runtime services are very much still there
<Ermine>
ah, I've got the pun
<ddevault>
not necessarily
<ddevault>
the code is in RAM but I'm not setting it aside, it'll be overwritten
<ddevault>
and I'm not going to call into it anyway
<ddevault>
not even planning on using GOP
<Ermine>
do you plan to load graphics driver asap?
<heat>
you probably still get things in secure world and shit
<ddevault>
Ermine: well, once userspace is up, yeah, probably the first thing I'll do
<ddevault>
maybe serial port first
<ddevault>
it's only like 50 lines of code to get a framebuffer going over HDMI on rpi
<ddevault>
which is why I chose the platform
<zid>
tianocore made of chinese
<GeDaMo>
I read that as cheese :|
<zid>
chinese cheese
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<klys>
I read that as tianocore made one of those
<zid>
sweet dreams, actually
<heat>
actually a great chunk of tianocore devs are chinese
<heat>
so you're not wrong are you
<klys>
.theo
<zid>
heat can I have $4.95/mo
<heat>
for wat
<zid>
j-novel club membership, my pirates are being slow and skipping stuff
<heat>
no
<zid>
mig beanie
<gog>
i'll give you 4.95 a month
<mjg>
onlyfans
<gog>
that's where i get the 4.95
<mjg>
posting pictures of failed printfi mplementations
<zid>
hot
<zid>
I'll trade you a pic you can post to onlyfans
<gog>
my implementation of printf does work tho :|
<zid>
same
<ddevault>
I had to overhaul my build system to get printf into the bootloader for the ARM port
<gog>
although i think i have some bugfuxes in my experimental branch that i need to cherry pick
<heat>
mjg, send me a picture of your pipe()
<mjg>
heat: it isu nmapped
<mjg>
dick().unwrap()
<mjg>
for you roosters out there
<heat>
RUST MOMENT
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<zid>
gog: send username/pw to my charged up account kth
<bslsk05>
en.wikipedia.org: Sphere of influence - Wikipedia
<epony>
because it does not carry the section title
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<epony>
^ "For example, the software company Microsoft has a large sphere of influence in the market of operating systems; any entity wishing to sell a software product may weigh up compatibility with Microsoft's products as part of a marketing plan."
<epony>
no shit, institutionalisation support for capitalism monopolies and international cartels seated in the imperial colony