klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<bslsk05> ​lore.kernel.org: Stalls in qemu with host running 6.1 (everything stuck at mmap_read_lock())
<heat> im not insaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<heat> fucking finally
<zid> nice
<heat> is this also your issue zid?
<zid> no idea?
<zid> but we repro'd it on my machine
<zid> so I at least have it
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<heat> i'm still on lts like a lowly debian user
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<epony> self-pity for the toy story
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<moon-child> hmmm I got some new ram and now I'm not sure how to lay it out
<moon-child> have 4x channels, 8x slots. 4x 8gb dimms, 2x 32gb dimms. Presumably I give each of the 32gb dimms a channel to itself? Which channels should get a 32gb dimm and which 8gb dimms?
<moon-child> I guess the bigger ones should go closer to the cpu?
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<zid> ooh new rams
<zid> you need to know the number of ranks on each dimm for this btw
<zid> Fewest ranks per channel is typically what'll work best
<moon-child> whaat
<moon-child> what's a rank
<moon-child> andhow do I find out how many ranks I have?
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<moon-child> ooh the 32g dimms are _heavy_
<heat> i am global elite
<moon-child> o shit it's the global elite
<moon-child> wassup
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<epony> it'll be a global secret
<epony> in other news, suspended flights
<zid> heat: I am LEM, or was like 10 years ago, pew pew
<zid> moon-child: usually they say 1xR or 2R or something somewhere the model name
<zid> and it correlates to whether they've got ICs on one or both sides usually
<moon-child> hmmm I have a bigger problem now: mobo bios says the ram is running at 2133mhz instead of 2666
<zid> the 2666 might be an xmp profile
<zid> that you have to manually enable
<zid> 'ranks: dual'
<zid> (cpuz gets the speed of this ram wrong though, it runs out of room for jedec profiles at 888 then.. gives up?)
<zid> actually the speed is just wrong entirely, weird, I wonder if I should bugrep that
<moon-child> xmp profile?
<moon-child> I did find a thing that says 'target dram frequency: 2666mhz'. So why is it claiming not to run at that frequency? Claims all the sticks support it
<zid> JEDEC is the standards body, the ram will report those and the bios will train them, but they also have 'non-standard' modes called XMP
<zid> because JEDEC adds the speeds *after* they become popular :D
<zid> most bioses default to not trying to train the xmp profile speeds
<moon-child> well, I futzed with some settings related to 'training', and it now claims to be running at 2666mhz
<zid> cpuz will tell you
<zid> if you're on windows
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<moon-child> I'm not running winblows
<zid> hmm not sure for linux
<zid> lshw?
<zid> "The canonical method is to boot Memtest or if you are so endowed, boot Windows and use CPU-Z" :D
<clever> product: F3-12800CL10-8GBXL
<clever> lshw shows the model of the ram, but it doesnt show rank
<clever> i guess google it from there?
<clever> and then play musical chairs with the ram
<zid> we moved onto speed, clever
<zid> which lshw can't show apparently
<zid> just the jedec info
<moon-child> freebsd bitch
<moon-child> no lshw!
<zid> so you're double fucked
<zid> I'd trust the bios screen, anyway
<zid> I've not rebooted since I got my new ram, I should tighten the timings up tbh
<moon-child> ooh I get way more memory bandwidth now than I did before
<moon-child> I'm pretty sure
<zid> how much?
<moon-child> (actually kind of suspicious, as the difference is more than 2666/2133)
<zid> I get 50GB/s
<moon-child> I think I got 15gb/s before, now 40-50
<zid> dang, welcome to ddr3
<moon-child> also worth noting I only have 4 cores
<zid> I have 6!
<moon-child> so that's probably not helping. I'll get more once I have a job again...
<zid> I hope your machine didn't cost more than mine
<zid> £50 for the ram, £20 for the cpu
<moon-child> size matters
<moon-child> I did get the cpu for way cheap. Mobo more expensive
<zid> yea my mobo is stupidly expensive
<zid> There's one 2nd hand on ebay for £244 :D
<zid> But also £140
<moon-child> how much did you pay for it?
<zid> £0
<moon-child> o.o
<zid> It was an RMA because of a dead sata port, it was being used as a NAS
<zid> I don't need 16 sata ports or whatever
<zid> I can't find the other HMT41GU7AFR8C-RD so that I can match my dimms up :(
<zid> wait what, fuck, there's HMT42G here, the 16GB one
<zid> for dirt cheap, noo
<moon-child> (actually I'm kinda wondering ... now that new intel cpus are out, will it be possible to get old xeons for cheaper?)
<moon-child> (maybe save a bit on the 18-core thingy)
<zid> You can get a 2699 v3 for £102
<zid> that's 18 cores :P
<zid> If you want the xeon gold one that's £2000
<moon-child> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175498248313 eyeing this thingy
<bslsk05> ​www.ebay.ca: QTY 1x Intel Confidential Xeon CPU W-2295 3.00Ghz ES QSU0 socket LGA2066 | eBay
<zid> 2295 is legit as fuck
<zid> There's a better one though
<moon-child> that fits in my motherboard? I thought that was the last one
<zid> 3375, 2295, 13900k
<zid> are the three 'good' cpus intel makes
<zid> (1390P doesn't exist)
<zid> not sure the 3375 exists either tbh
<moon-child> FCLGA4189
<moon-child> I like the core count though
<zid> 3375 is the highest cores * freq cpu they sell
<zid> 2295 is the highest clocks they sell with quad channel memory
<zid> 13900k is the highest clocks they sell without quad
<zid> I think
<zid> a friend made a database of everything on ark and we made some queries to find the best in class cpus :P
<zid> I wish I knew about the HMT42GR7AFR4C-RD now, I feel dumb :(
<zid> Let's pretend it wouldn't have worked right because it's got too many ranks.
<moon-child> what's a HMT42GR7AFR4C-RD
<zid> SK Hynix 16GB PC3-14900R DDR3-1866Mhz 2RX4 ECC
<moon-child> ddr3 rip
<zid> I spent the same money on SK hynix HMT41GU7AFR8C-RD
<zid> which is 8GB
<zid> and I can't even find 2 more to go with it
<zid> there's 8 of the 16GB just sat on ebay
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<kaichiuchi> hi
<moon-child> hi
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<zid> whoever designed my keyboard has no fucking idea how strain relief works
<zid> the rubber grommet thing is actually super stiff plastic, so all it has done is made a nice lip for the cable to fray on
<clever> ive seen that on a number of products
<heat> cmputer
<sham1> What's a cmputer
<Mutabah> a badly made (spelt) computer :)
<sham1> It was a reference to that one Apple ad, but that's technically correct. The best kind of correct
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<zid> pooder.
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<moon-child> no _you_'re a pooder
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<immibis_> zid: cargo cult
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<zid> immibis_: Your underwear is a cargo cult
<zid> Oh I thought you were insulting me.
<immibis_> no, hard strain relief is a cargo cult
<zid> yea I got it after I realized it wasn't just a random funny insult :D
<immibis_> of course we live in an economic environment where cargo-culting is mandatory because if you spend the time to make something good, armed thugs come and take away your home
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<zid> and your product has to be 4% more profitable every year, which either means taking 4% of the plastic away, or making it last 4% less long :P
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<immibis_> or cutting employee wages 4%
<zid> Always a classic
<immibis> have you seen Luetzerath?
<immibis> the German government is like "sorry guys we're sacrificing your houses for coal"
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<zid> oh neat
<immibis> This is legal because it helps shareholders. Meanwhile the same government say they cannot take homes away from shareholders because it's unconstitutional
<zid> we onlined a new coal mine, but afaik it's to be the last one ever, our coal is shit and they're only using it for industrial supply for making coke for steel with I think
<immibis> if they were mining anywhere other than under a town they stole from its residents, it would probably be not great, but it would be excusable
<zid> germany offlined all its nuclear plants recently didn't it
<zid> that seems.. excessively stupid, given what's happening now
<immibis> Yup. Green party seems to be getting bribed by coal companies
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<zid> "Our pipeline access to russian oil is gone, if only there was something we could do about this! Oh well. *digs harder*"
<zid> It's funny how it's the *green* party who sold out
<immibis> Actually it is more likely they are bribed by Russia. Putin is the world's richest man.
<zid> given what a green party is supposed to do
<immibis> No other party is any better. Not even The Left
<zid> our green party is also a shitshow on nuclear, but nobody votes for them at least
<immibis> The others probably didn't need to sell out.
<zid> right, there's a bias there, putin's not going to give billions to pro-coal people :p
<immibis> Nobody votes for the USA green party because of Duverger's law - this has nothing to do with their policies
<immibis> I remind anyone in the USA reading this, that Duverger's law applies separately to each seat, so if you live in a safe Democrat seat then you can switch your vote to Green
<zid> Yea I've legit heard people here say they won't vote lib dem because of "splitting the vote"
<immibis> (assuming they are not stupid overall. I have no idea what they are like)
<zid> this is the safest tory seat int he country
* Mutabah laughs in STV
<Mutabah> (or RCV, not sure if there's a difference?)
<immibis> RCV is a general term for the UI format while STV is a method to calculate the winner which requires an RCV input
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<immibis> Ranked choice = you put all the politicians into a preference order
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<Mutabah> *nod*
<immibis> am I right in thinking the term "operating system" is a reanalysis of "disk/tape operating system" being a system used to operate disks or tapes?
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<Mutabah> (Australia uses RCV - with STV for one house, and a fractional transfer for the other)
<gog> nya
<zid> glug
<Mutabah> immibis: Probably.
<gog> zib
<gog> havð segirðu
<zid> Yes I do have sekiro
<zid> it is a good game.
<gog> næs
<zid> should that be hvað
<zid> my icelandic is rusty
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<zid> I learned it in a weekend a few years ago and forgot most of it
<zid> Oh I need to stay awake today, dang, need to shift my sleep forwards for weekend
<gog> yes i typo'd
<zid> There's AN FESTIVAL
<zid> I'd tell you the details but it's so rural and incomprehensible
<heat> gog, gog
<heat> play dark soul
<heat> god game
<zid> sekiro also god game
<zid> lit. game about gods
<heat> dark soul also game about gods
<heat> and thicc demons
<zid> Does quelaag count as thicc
<zid> she does have a LOT of ass
<heat> i was thinking more about the asylum demon and its copies
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<heat> largest ass in the game right? except maybe ceaseless
<gog> i'm playing "doing my job" rn sorry
<heat> gog no trabajes
<gog> si estoy trabajando ahora
<gog> lo crees
<heat> viene jugar almas negras
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<zid> I'vebeen lookin for my soldering iron this entire time and haven't found it
<zid> whih is bad, because I've already cut the cable of my keyboad in wo
<zid> two
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<gog> oops
<moon-child> how are you typing then o.o
<mjg> more then one keyboard
<mjg> than
<heat> how are you going to boot now
<gog> two of them
<zid> The atrocious waste of space I bought the new one as a replacement for
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<zid> becaues t as so unsuabel
<moon-child> how does the intel cstate/power management stuff actually work?
<moon-child> could I clock one core way down, as low as it'll go, but also keep it pegged, never letting it go to sleep
<moon-child> and get reasonable power/heat?
<heat> yes
<zid> I think turbo 3.0 or whatever takes a lot of that control away doesn't it?
<heat> that's what happens on 100% usage if you disable turbo boost
<heat> for U series laptops, etc
<zid> you set up taus and shit
<heat> if I disable turbo boost on my laptop and run prime95 it will 100% at 800MHz
<zid> nod, cus that's your lowest multi
<moon-child> can I do that just for one core?
<moon-child> and can I go lower than 800mhz?
<heat> maybe?
<zid> multis are hardcoded at the top end
<zid> I assume they are at the bottom end too
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<zid> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cpu-freq/intel-pstate.txt if you wanna fiddle with stuff on linux
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<zid> afaik turbo is a global for the cpu, and with turbo off you can't set different multis per core? it's all weird
<zid> and changes constnatly
<zid> This is basically the same set of tools you use for overclocking, and you're generally limited to "all core turbo" and "disable all the cores except 1"
<heat> i mean these are all MSRs so
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<moon-child> hmmm maybe it'll be ok if I just pause a lot
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<Ermine> ping
<heat> pong
<zid> somone must sell pre-made usb cables, but I have no idea what you'd search for..
<Ermine> heat: thank you
<gog> prr
<gog> i do not like s3
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
* gog prr
<gog> i have rainbow socks on today
<zid> anyone have any ideas?
<Ermine> I still have NY socks
<heat> ... so my ipv4 default route got deleted someho
<heat> w
<zid> nice
<bslsk05> ​docs.google.com: AWS icon quiz
<zid> https://www.moddiy.com/products/USB-Header-Mini-PH-2.0mm-5-Pin-to-USB-2.0-Type-A-Male-Adaptor-Cable.html well it seems to be exactly this, but I can't find anything on amazon
<bslsk05> ​www.moddiy.com: USB Header Mini PH 2.0mm 5 Pin to USB 2.0 Type A Male Adaptor Cable - modDIY.com
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<bslsk05> ​www.aliexpress.com: Replacement Wire Durable Nylon Braided Line Usb Mouse Cable For Razer Deathadder Essential Wired Gaming Mouse - Pc Hardware Cables & Adapters - AliExpress
<bslsk05> ​www.ebay.ie: USB 2.0 A Male Left /Right Angle to Dupont 5 Pin Female Header Motherboard Cable | eBay
<zid> nah it isn't dupont, and that shows as "removed" for me
<FireFly> ah
<FireFly> your aliexpress link didn't work for me, but that might be on my end, idk
<FireFly> or georestrictions or something
<zid> works for me, I tested before pasting too :(
<FireFly> oh looks like it's maybe geofenced, says in german it's not available in my location (and just basically shows a 404 page)
<FireFly> silly aliexpress
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<fedorafan> Ermine heat who won
<fedorafan> !joke
<fedorafan> you are doing everything
<fedorafan> except os developing right :D
<Ermine> I switched to a new IRC bouncer, so I test connectivity
<fedorafan> free bouncer or yours
<Ermine> Mine, self-hosted
<fedorafan> nice
<fedorafan> smarter
<fedorafan> superfast leightweight linux for vm
<fedorafan> ideas
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<epony> FreeBSD
<epony> s/vm/container/g
* epony ignites a Redhat Linux 4 CD
<epony> shuriken haircuts free today
<zid> Finally got hold of soldering iron, keyboard no worky :(
<zid> Need a multimeter now :D
<Jari--> hi all
<kaichiuchi> hi
<sham1> Heya
<ddevault> why are interrupts so complicated
<dminuoso> They are not complicated.
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<heat> citation needed
<dminuoso> It's just that asynchronos code in general is hard to reason about in systems.
<zid> heat why does my keyboard not work anymore
<zid> black black (white green) red should be fine :(
<dminuoso> Have you tried plugging it in?
<dminuoso> :>
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<netbsduser> ddevault: what complication are you speaking of?
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<heat> oh i dont know, irq routing, figuring out what the fuck a "GSI" is, trying to map an interrupt by going up the whole fucking device tree, figuring out MSIs
<heat> anything else? :v
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<kaichiuchi> heat: bazinga
<heat> ba
<Ermine> bazinga moment
* gog bazingas
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<Ermine> Being sick sucks
<kaichiuchi> Ermine: may i gog you
<Ermine> yes
* kaichiuchi gogs Ermine
* Ermine prrs
<gog> :o
<gog> what is happening
<Ermine> gog is used for gogginh
<Ermine> gogging
<heat> david gogins
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<Ermine> Jim Gogins
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<zid> fucking hell yea, fixed it
<zid> I have found the only usb device that refuses to turn on if D+ and D- are swapped, or I am incredibly unlucky
<zid> and it was somehow something else wrong for ages
<sham1> The only one implemented to spec
<zid> now my mouse isn't working :P
<zid> I think I probably triggered some voltage protection on that hub though fucking around
<gog> oops
<zid> ya, replug into diff hub, all good
<zid> cellotape is WAY better strain relief than what this shit started with.
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<gog> y'all we had some rank amateurs write this code i'm working on rn istg
<gog> and it was not me
<gog> i'm at least above that level slightly
<kaichiuchi> at my old job, one of the software test engineers was fresh out of college
<kaichiuchi> a "good" college
<kaichiuchi> didn't know what anything was at all
<kaichiuchi> couldn't tell me what the command prompt was, or python, or intel, or anything
<gog> lmao
<zid> intel is what spies gather
<zid> duh
<sham1> kaichiuchi: insert Rob Pike quote here
<gog> yeah my boss said that he had some interns awhile back and they didn't know anything. he was expecting me to be about the same level but i'm actually good at what i do
<kaichiuchi> does he have something to say about this
<gog> i'm suspecting one of those interns wrote this code
<gog> the repo doesn't have a proper username for it
<gog> so i can't git blame :(
<kaichiuchi> what I didn't mention is that guess who had to train him
<kaichiuchi> me
<kaichiuchi> so you can imagine how close I was to exploding
<kaichiuchi> when he said that his parents paid for his schooling 100%, then it made sense
<kaichiuchi> any moron can get into a good college if the parents are saying "here's a metric fuck ton of money"
<zid> I never understood people who got into tech but didn't like tech enough to know anything
<gog> YAY! i fixed it
<zid> Like, this is all a learning game
<zid> without any drive to you know, learn anything, the fuck are you going to do
<sham1> zid: I understand. Money
<zid> suffer every day scheduling 'study sessions'?
<zid> and still get nowhere
<gog> yeh i literally have to learn every day because i came into this job knowing nothing about any of this and just kinda sank or swim lol
<kaichiuchi> you're in web dev right?
<gog> yeah
<heat> gogjs
<gog> i didn't really know c# or anything about ASP.NET
<kaichiuchi> honestly I don't know anything other than c, c++, and python
<gog> i know some stuff about html and css and a teeny bit about js
<gog> the learning curve to start was steep
<gog> but i got up it
<gog> thankfully c# is a lot like c++ in some ways
<zid> C# seems kinda nice, but people can do the whole python/c++/etc thing and write total garbage in it
<heat> my condolences in having to write C#, gog
<heat> at least write java!
<bslsk05> ​github.com: JADE/InstructionManager.cs at master · BLNJ/JADE · GitHub
<gog> ugh scope depth is too deep
<gog> this needs refactor
<zid> it needs deleting
<gog> maybe
<zid> This is supposed to be a cpu interpreter
<gog> seems a bit excessive
<zid> but instead of switch(opcode){ thing }
<zid> it's making like, diffs of the universe
<zid> and factory factorying them
<zid> it allocates several hundred kilobytes per instruction
<gog> gotta be factory factoried
<gog> enterprise quality
<gog> heat: honestly it's not that bad
<zid> He was wondering why it was running slowly.
<FireFly> I was expecting worse somehow :P
<zid> I think I upset him so much he stopped programming
<kaichiuchi> that tends to happen on the internet
<zid> cus the commit I saw is the final commit he made on github
<gog> aw
<gog> you've made me upset plenty of times i'm not gonna stop programming about it
<kaichiuchi> that's why I try to moderate what I say
<zid> "what if I di-" "No, delete it"
<zid> gog: oh sorry, lmk next time
<gog> lmao
<zid> I'll blame heat.
<kaichiuchi> there was some dude on #c on freenode
<heat> my fault
<kaichiuchi> Zhivago I think it was
<heat> i really shouldn't have done that
<zid> zhiv <3
<kaichiuchi> no not <3
<zid> big Z
<heat> i swear I didn't know it was a war crime
<zid> zhiv was amazing
<kaichiuchi> he was a massive asshole that was sanctioned by the channel
<kaichiuchi> and by "sanctioned" I mean basically officially supported as far as I know
<zid> It was his channel as far as I know
<kaichiuchi> "my retarded little friend" I vividly remember him saying to someone who was asking a legitimate question
<kaichiuchi> within *minutes*
<zid> It ran well because it was moderated, that channel is completely useless now
<zid> minutes is ages for zhiv
<heat> ;_;
<kaichiuchi> you mean "it ran well because people were instantly banned"
<kaichiuchi> for _nothing_
<zid> yes, that channel got a lot of traffic, and a lot of idiots who should not have been there, either asking questions, or giving 'advice'
<zid> when the mods were asleep
<kaichiuchi> i know this is the internet, and irc is particularly brutal
<kaichiuchi> but jesus christ
<kaichiuchi> idiots asking questions aren't idiots.
<heat> depends
<kaichiuchi> there's this mentality that "wtf is wrong with my program" and the issue is trivially obvious to people like us
<zid> [15:03] <dangbarry> hey, how did i use fopen(), please help!
<zid> <frag4> what part of the manual you don't understand?
<zid> <dangbarry> what manual?
<kaichiuchi> what manual is a good question
<zid> <dangbarry> how do you use the manual1? please help!
<kaichiuchi> yes *how* do you use the manual? use the man command
<zid> <Zhivago> dangbarry: Programming is not for the mentally retarded, unfortunately.
<heat> if I only vaguely know what a computer is and come to #osdev ask "how2creat operating system" I am an idiot
<kaichiuchi> yeah that entire dialog is fucked
<kaichiuchi> sorry to say
<kaichiuchi> it's not something that a normal human being does
<kaichiuchi> when I started programming I didn't even know "man" existed
<kaichiuchi> .
<zid> kaichiuchi: You have to deal with him in 2 minutes before the next idiot shows up, and he's *clearly* too stupid to handle any support he could possibly receive.
<zid> Your move.
<kaichiuchi> there's this expectation that people somehow know absolutely everything when ending up in #c or #c++
<zid> No
<kaichiuchi> 80% of the time they say "RTFM"
<kaichiuchi> so what's the point
<zid> The expectation is that they can ask a question, and receive an answer
<kaichiuchi> .
<zid> 50% fail the former, an additional 45% fail the latter
<kaichiuchi> calling someone retarded for asking where the manual is, or implicitly what "man" is
<kaichiuchi> not really okay.
<gog> yeahh but if you're at the level of learning C and you can't figure out how to teach yourself shit
<kaichiuchi> and unfortunately, this is one of the only professions where that is in abundance particularly onlne
<kaichiuchi> *online
<gog> you're going to have a very bad time
<kaichiuchi> if you are trying to teach yourself C, first you need to have a good book
<kaichiuchi> I would ask some questions and try to steer them in the right direction
<kaichiuchi> not immediately just call them mentally retarded
<mjg> zid: where is that quote from
<zid> ##c
<gog> i don't think it justifies verbal abuse
<mjg> oh zhivago
<mjg> dude
<zid> [13:08] <Zhivago> kontain: Have you done the first exercise in your book?
<zid> [13:08] <kontain> No, I didn't.
<zid> [13:08] <Zhivago> Yes. Otherwise I will ban you.
<gog> but i also don't think people like that need to be entertained
<zid> [13:08] <kontain> How many types are there first of all
<zid> [13:08] <kontain> Should I do it and come back?
<mjg> don't even go there kthx
<mjg> is he still active?
<mjg> i mean this fresh? :p
<zid> no idea
<kaichiuchi> I haven't seen him in #c since libera
<zid> no that's from.. 2012?
<kaichiuchi> point being, it'd be best if people would stop masturbating to stupid shit like that
<zid> [13:09] <kontain> Zhivago: Just explain me small things?
<zid> [13:09] <kontain> What is * and & /
<kaichiuchi> yes and i'd tell them
<zid> Yea and I'd ignore you both
<gog> would you really be doing them a favor?
<zid> him for being unhelpable and you for spamming the channel
<zid> if I were a mod I'd ban you both
<kaichiuchi> you must be 50 years old
<zid> No I just know how help vampires work
<kaichiuchi> apparently not
<kaichiuchi> what you're doing is encouraging people to be assholes
<zid> No, you've got a big case of the entitlement there.
<kaichiuchi> you can't be serious
<zid> Free support channel staffed by volunteers, gets attacked by a help vampire in the dead of night
<zid> "just help him ffs"
<kaichiuchi> i've never heard of a help vampire until today
<zid> It shows
<kaichiuchi> what, because someone asks a question like that and I say "in the case of *, it depends on what you're doing; have you read the C programming language 2nd edition (K&R)?"
<zid> kaichiuchi: He was already instructed to read a book, he said he would, note the timestamps
<zid> a MINUTE later he regened and started asking questions from the first page of said book without having read it.
<zid> This is *all* this person will *ever* do.
<kaichiuchi> one response has a sign of people skills, the other has a sign of severe impairment
<zid> Expect you to hand-teach them a complex and involved programming language, and they will not lift a finger to help themselves.
<kaichiuchi> i'll let you decide which one is which
<zid> This will continue for *weks* unless you stop it.
<zid> weeks*
<gog> i think there's a difference between a help vampire and a helpless noob who hasn't learned enough to really be able to teach themselves
<zid> I know this because: I've seen literally hundreds of them, and tens of people like you
<zid> nobody wins
<kaichiuchi> i've never had this problem
<kaichiuchi> quite literally never
<kaichiuchi> except in real life with the guy i just mentioned
<gog> the noob needs to be redirected to something simpler to grasp first
<zid> hence: "where is your book?" being the ##c motto at the time
<gog> the help vampire usually has a personality disorder
<gog> and demands attention and care from people who don't owe it to them
<zid> It's a bit like hiring, you use petty reasons just to cut the 400 applicants down to 20
<gog> and becomes indignant when you provide them with the tools but not the care
<zid> so that the real-20 can be considered properly
<kaichiuchi> gog: that I can understand, those people are annoying, yes
<kaichiuchi> understand what I am not saying: I am *NOT* saying there aren't annoying people
<kaichiuchi> but generally speaking, if you say someone is mentally retarded within 5 lines, either they have said something massively fucked up, or you don't have good people skills
<gog> there's a non-programming support space i'm in where we have this one repeat customer. she knows people get sick of her shit so she comes back under different nicknames doing the same thing and demanding that everybody pay attention to her problems and listen to her vent. then she complains that we're not helpful and demands that we provide her with a list of similar spaces she can go abuse.
<gog> i've spent countless hours trying to get through to her
<gog> trying to comfort her
<gog> and it's been a massive drain on me and other people and she still comes back to take more from us
<zid> You learn not to be a victim eventually
<kaichiuchi> yes, those are people with a serious psychiatric disorder
<zid> It doesn't help either of you
<gog> anyhow, that's the kind of person who needs to be discouraged
<gog> and it's hard to tell which is which
<kaichiuchi> you could make the argument that help channels don't need to exist at all, is my point, at this point
<gog> a person who is just genuinely clueless and needs guidance to the resources to help themselves
<kaichiuchi> yes
<kaichiuchi> and that's not wrong
<gog> or a narcissist who wants to waste your time and energy for pleasure
<kaichiuchi> there are 2983742983489297 bad C/C++ books
<zid> That's why /topic's exist, and the lead question "Which book are you using?"
<kaichiuchi> infinitely more bad C/C++ resources that come up on google
<zid> If they say no book, you tell them to read K&R2
<bslsk05> ​www.iso-9899.info: Main Page - C
<mjg> this used to be up to date
<kaichiuchi> mjg: right
<zid> if they say a different book, you tell them not to read that book it's shit
<zid> simple syste
<zid> If they say K&R2 you then ask them if they read the chapter this shit is covered in, and they say no
<zid> and you say "well, have fun"
<kaichiuchi> I think what I'm getting at ultimately is: yes, gog's story rings true, those people are everywhere, I don't disagree; but #c is the only place I've ever been in ever where people routinely got shit on
<kaichiuchi> *ROUTINELY*
<zid> because it was routinely joined :P
<kaichiuchi> so is every other channel and help group
<zid> not really, tbh
<kaichiuchi> what? you think #c is that special?
<heat> i think you're both being stupid
<zid> I'm 100% serious about the every 2 miutes someone completely incapable of rational thought was joining
<zid> the.. 12 years ago or whatever these logs are from
<heat> help vampires exist but shitting on them is absolutely not something you should do
<kaichiuchi> i'm not sure i'm the one being stupid here
<heat> just ignore them, simple 'as
<heat> <heat> i think you're both being stupid
<zid> gotta shuffle them out the back door as fast as possible in a body bag
<kaichiuchi> the stupidity is shitting on someone to such a degree that they stop even trying to write code
<zid> so the people you might be able to help can be helped
<kaichiuchi> i'm not saying zid did that with any conclusive evidence or anything
<zid> kaichiuchi: That probably saves a lot of effort
<kaichiuchi> no it doesn't...
<kaichiuchi> i swear to god this is the only profession I know of where this type of attitude is proliferated in mass numbers
<zid> No, it's literally everywhere, you just see it
<kaichiuchi> so, what I'm hearing is
<zid> artists get told "maybe art isn't for you", pianists, football players, etc
<kaichiuchi> yes, and that's not really okay
<kaichiuchi> if they enjoy doing something, and if they want to try and get better, the last thing you do is tell them they can't do it
<zid> You just said it didn't happen
<zid> so it's fine
<kaichiuchi> it's extremely neurotic to say, implicitly, "i'm glad that I probably shat on someone so hard they stopped coding because they're just another idiot"
<heat> mjg, solaris
<kaichiuchi> i'm going to stop talking now before I say something awful, and I don't want to say something awful
<zid> oh btw, that kontain guy was in the channel for the next EIGHT HOURS asking those basic ass questions :D
<zid> and by basic I mean 'this person is basic' not 'trivial'
<zid> He was also there the next day..
<mjg> heat: what
<heat> solaris man
<mjg> there is probably a discord for C
<kaichiuchi> solaris
<mjg> makes one wonder how that looks like
<zid> Is there a solaris for discord
<kaichiuchi> mjg: i don't trust anything on discord
<kaichiuchi> well, particularly when it comes to programming
<mjg> kaichiuchi: sure
<mjg> heat: almost
<kaichiuchi> something that I can readily agree upon: when I joined the cpp discord server, I was almost instantly banned
<mjg> there is discord or compatible for omnios
<mjg> which is a illumos variant
<kaichiuchi> I don't quite remember what I said, but it was completely innocuous
<heat> sorry, i only use enterprise UNIX
<zid> heat: what comes after 2f? is it 230?
<kaichiuchi> then I had two mods DM me
<kaichiuchi> and I said "aight i'm out"
<mjg> kaichiuchi: "FUCK CPP USE RUST FUCKERS"
<heat> call me after Discord for UnixWare comes out
<heat> zid, hahahaha
<heat> we got trolled so hard man
<zid> We got help vampried but we were bored :P
<mjg> one could argue you were instigiting
<zid> I knew what I was doing, at least
<kaichiuchi> that guy i worked with told me the hex digits were through 0-G
<kaichiuchi> and was adamant
<epony> the price is $2.49 USD for UNIX and 2,249 USD for the PC
<mjg> uh?
<mjg> this one is trivially disprovable though?
<kaichiuchi> absolutely
<mjg> so it's liek what happened
<epony> you call that shitOS
<zid> kaichiuchi: This is a reference to the time me and heat spent 3 hours trying to teach a guy OSdev, and by teach a guy OSdev, we mean teaching him how to count.
<zid> Because he coudln't count.
<epony> the PC costs about $250-500 USD in reality
<heat> it wasn't just us
<kaichiuchi> zid: in that case, I can agree there's a limit
<kaichiuchi> please understand me
<kaichiuchi> there is a limit
<heat> it was legit like 4 or 5 people
<kaichiuchi> but that limit isn't usually within 5 sentences
<heat> we all got fucking bamboozled by mr hex
<kaichiuchi> *usually*
<epony> but for you, because you liek shitOS $2,000 USD extra charge
<zid> what's your PB heat?
<bslsk05> ​shogun.rm-f.net <no title>
<epony> next year have more brains in that stupid head ;-)
<heat> i'll leave it running tonight
<kaichiuchi> my goodness though
<kaichiuchi> he really couldn't count?
<kaichiuchi> like, 10+10=20?
<Ermine> 10 + 10 = 100
<heat> kaichiuchi, it was hex
<kaichiuchi> ok so 0x0F + 0x0F == 0x1E
<heat> after 3 hours if you say 2f + 1 210 you're trolling
<zid> he didn't get past incrementing
<zid> addition lol
<epony> looks like a couple people who can not decide how to number the lines in their BASIC program
<kaichiuchi> okay, I wish I would've been here for that
<kaichiuchi> in particular because I would've enjoyed seeing both zid and heat melt down
<heat> geist too
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<heat> and a few more people
<epony> from the future
<zid> I knew what I was doing, I don't have full logs because I had to unignore him to hear him not be able to count
<kaichiuchi> how long ago was this
<kaichiuchi> surely it's on the public logs
<zid> april 2nd 2022
<zid> ye
<kaichiuchi> a day after april fools?
<zid> he was serious, he had a github and everything
<kaichiuchi> found it
<kaichiuchi> 18:50 <heat> what the fuck do you mean
<kaichiuchi> 18:51 <scripted> oh shit
<kaichiuchi> 18:51 <heat> you definitely know how to count
<kaichiuchi> classic
<ddevault> why might an aarch64 device have more than one GIC?
<gog> oh yeah that guy!
<zid> <scripted> heat: my teacher told us to search math videos on tiktok
<gog> you sure it wasn't siberianascii trolling
<gog> i'm not sure
<zid> his github was old and matched his name, shrug
<epony> what is a GIC?
<epony> ,GIC
<kaichiuchi> 19:07 <zid> I'm 32 bro
<kaichiuchi> i refuse to believe that
<epony> 32 brothers.. you must have more than one shared parent
<epony> or, number 32 in school.. damn that's packed
<kaichiuchi> geist coming in with "no, let's not insult the student" A+
<epony> and then the student goes to work and gets insulted instantly 200 times in a row
<zid> <geist> stop guessing. that's more hurtful
<zid> is my favourite.
<zid> That's just how some people operate, if you try to socratic method them they will *guess*
<epony> why are you quoting living people?
<GeDaMo> Apparently I took part in that conversation but I have no memory of it :|
<mjg> socrates wouuld never invented the method if he knew it would be used by zid on irc
<mjg> just sayin
<kaichiuchi> 21:13 <scripted> I thought all of my commits were gone
<kaichiuchi> 21:13 <scripted> oh my FUCKING god
<kaichiuchi> 21:13 <scripted> git just scared the fuck out of me
<kaichiuchi> 21:13 <zid> is it because the commit IDs are in hex
<epony> philosophy of the guesses
<epony> guessing what a philosopher would do
<kaichiuchi> (i'm sure I don't have to say this, but we are not making fun of this guy beyond this channel)
<mjg> i don't know who is trolling in the above
<kaichiuchi> to me he seems like he's 14 or something
<kaichiuchi> and as someone who was once 14, I've said and done quite a lot of stupid things
<kaichiuchi> so I'm being gentle
<FireFly> you've been 14 once?
<mjg> i skipped that age
<zid> wait, you're *past* that?
<epony> you skipped 13
<mjg> heat was 14 twice
<FireFly> zid: oof
<ddevault> epony: generic interrupt controller
<heat> yeah i overflowed
<GeDaMo> Fist in decimal then in hex :P
<GeDaMo> Er, first
<epony> ddevault, that's not my name, just joking.. forgot the other details of the question, why would armv8 have that?
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<kaichiuchi> yeah I can see zid why you were going bonkers
<Ermine> want: decimal fist
<epony> hahaha
<kaichiuchi> "omg i'm so tired" every time it got hard
<epony> octal 2 missing digits
<zid> 'hard'
<ddevault> I mean, I don't know
<ddevault> hence asking
<zid> incrementing numbers :D
<ddevault> seems like things are designed such that more than one can be present
<kaichiuchi> i think the poor bastard was just a kid, and deeply confused, and bit off far more than he could chew, and got overwhelmed
<zid> He was very beyond "whelmed"
<heat> are you kidding me
<heat> he couldn't fucking count
<zid> #osdev yo
<heat> zid pulled out the abbacus
<kaichiuchi> i'm trying to be nice
<Ermine> what happens
<kaichiuchi> because again, I definitely see the wtf
<heat> and *the javascript*
<epony> count in BCD with gray code
<epony> let's see you do it now
<zid> My favourite was that he liked to respond with "no"
<kaichiuchi> this is what I'm saying
<kaichiuchi> likely a kid, and wanted attention
<kaichiuchi> i've... done a lot of stupid things on the internet at that age, as I said.
<kaichiuchi> that would be one of them.
<zid> I'd absolutely not be upset if someone called you a moron and banned you
<zid> sorry not orry
<epony> that assumes people stop doing stupid things on the internet.. which might not be even possible
<kaichiuchi> yet I turned out fine
<kaichiuchi> well, 'fine'
<epony> hahaha
<epony> FINE!
<zid> Think of how much finer you could have been
<kaichiuchi> i don't think that's how that works
<zid> if you had a strong parental figure telling you to knock that stupid shit off
<epony> like a balet dancer on low carb diet
<epony> who can't dance
<epony> and looks hungry
<epony> for knowledge and more
<kaichiuchi> i think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, even though your arguments have some merit to them
<zid> osdev basically enver bans, it's kinda fun but we're low enough traffic
<kaichiuchi> yes and I'm glad osdev never bans
<zid> that I can just ignore a couple of persistant trolls
<kaichiuchi> almost never bans anyway
<kaichiuchi> i mean the conversation started off fairly okay
<kaichiuchi> then it did quickly devolve because it was obvious he was immature
<zid> so the question is then, you know he's about to do it from line 1
<zid> do you just ban him 'unfairly'
<zid> or let him send the next 80 messages, then ban him
<zid> so that you can justify the ban to.. noboy
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<kaichiuchi> banning is always the last resort, if there's even a modicum of hope (which was extinguished the moment he kept saying he was sleepy and "no" all of the time)
<mjg> zid: nice find re yaml url
<kaichiuchi> I've *struggled* with certain things
<zid> yaml url?
<kaichiuchi> and I was really trying to learn
<kaichiuchi> I ended up getting banned from the channel
<kaichiuchi> that sucked
<Ermine> ban moment is a random variable which is Markov moment
<ddevault> klange: I'm reading your aarch64 timer/GIC setup code and wew boy do I not grok it
<kaichiuchi> i mean we're just going in circles at this point
<zid> mjg pls tell me your serets
<kaichiuchi> i'm going to reboot and play ff7 remake
* kof123 throws a midgard serpent at kaichiuchi
<epony> reboot to year 1996
* kaichiuchi cries
<kof123> no, that means you are initiated now
<kof123> look it up lol
<kaichiuchi> ohhhh
<mjg> zid: when i was about 5 i was taking a piss outdoors and my 5y/o female neighbour was watching
<zid> mjg: what about yaml url secrets?
<kaichiuchi> when i was 22 i got completely drunk and puked and pissed in my friend's yard
<kaichiuchi> that's a secret
<zid> no it isn't
<kaichiuchi> you're right
<zid> that's like, every weekend for 30 million brits
<mjg> yaml stands for yet another moronic languagte
<zid> mjg: Please just tell me I am dying here
<zid> if you don't tell me I will develop severe trust issues
<kaichiuchi> speaking of britain
<mjg> life is hard zid
<zid> okay I no longer trust mjg to say anything interesting
<kaichiuchi> i kind of want to visit oxford university or something
<zid> and anything he says that I don't understand, I will assume is nonsense he won't elaborate on even if asked
<zid> so can safely be ignored
* mjg doubles down on grooming heat
<heat> hello
<mjg> heat: hey buddy, how is the solaris install going
<kaichiuchi> god
<heat> i deleted my openbsd vm
<mjg> heat: did uncle Bonwick give you a candy
<mjg> nooo
<mjg> wtf
<mjg> dude
<kaichiuchi> that counting story has something stuck in my head
<mjg> you can't say that in broad dayglight
<kaichiuchi> 1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 10, 10 becomes 100
<zid> heat: do you know what a 'nice find re yaml url' is
<mjg> arguably it is getting dark
<kaichiuchi> Everything has its beginning. But it doesn't start at "one." It starts long before that, in chaos. The world is born... from zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes two, two becomes ten, ten becomes 100. Taking it all back to one solves nothing. So long as Zero remains, one... will eventually grow to 100 again. And so our goal was to erase Zero. Even the mighty Patriots began with a single man. That
<kaichiuchi> one man's desires grew huge, bloated; absorbed technology; began to manipulate the economy. We realized too late that we had created a beast. We had helped turn Zero into 100. His sin was ours. And for that reason, I'm taking it upon myself to send Zero... back to nothing.
<mjg> zid: oh wow, i'm so sorry
<zid> Okay he's well into disorganized speech territory here, take the meds kaichiuchi
<zid> see you tomorrow
<bslsk05> ​ruudvanasseldonk.com: The yaml document from hell
<heat> im confused
<mjg> someone linked this one channel over
<mjg> i somehow thought it was you
<zid> and you thought rather than clarifying, you'd troll me and ruin our friendship, wow
<mjg> i thouhg you were fucking around with the response
<zid> WOW
<mjg> which would be in style for the channel
<zid> That you could think of me like this
<zid> Breaks my heart
<mjg> would a hug from heat patch it up?
<zid> gaay
<ddevault> klange: nevermind, makes sense now
<zid> Also you could't *pay* me to use yaml
<mjg> this is why i'm suggesting it zid
<zid> I already ranted about the *concept* of it, here
<mjg> oh you did?
<zid> yea
<zid> <zid> People kept trying to get me to use YAML on one of my projects
<zid> <zid> Literally nobody could explain to me why
<zid> <zid> "It has a date format!"
<zid> <zid> Okay but.. if it parses the date, it's going to give me the date in some struct, and I will have to use the posix date functions to turn it into a date I can use anyway
<mjg> :))
<zid> <zid> so I've skippped.. precisely 0 steps, but now the config takes 10x as long to load and uses a custom format
<mjg> this reminds me of people who push tdd
<mjg> the reason to do tdd is that you will have tests!
<heat> the only date format I use is nanoseconds since epoch
<mjg> epoch: heat's birthday
<zid> I use the gregorian jan 1st 1970
<mjg> i don't even track time
<heat> no time in polan
<mjg> no time like the present
<mjg> time() returns a constant named NOW
<zid> But I am thinking of switching to julian
<zid> how many days apart are we now?
<zid> That'll solve the Y2038K problem
<mjg> lemme count
<mjg> before = time();
<mjg> after = time();
<heat> zid, you should ask the pontifex maximus, he deals with that sort of stuff
<mjg> i get 0
<zid> mjg: I think people got *very* confused when they started seeing json
<zid> because json is just 'eval me in javascript and you can sorta load data into javascript, which does not support files'
<zid> and went OH, WE SHOULD HAVE THAT DO, forgetting that a) they were not javascript and b) they could open files
<zid> s/DO/TOO
<zid> so now everything is a yaml describing an xml containing a json descripting what should be an ini
<mjg> see so happens i need $something to represent parts of a directory tree and was thinking of json
<mjg> filename + mtime
<heat> i like json
<heat> i use it
<FireFly> zid: and it's all generated by nix *ducks*
* Ermine uses XML
<mjg> i happen to know there will be no funny names in there
<mjg> so escaping lullers is not a problem
<heat> Ermine, stop
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<Ermine> joking
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<FireFly> <STOP />
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<mjg> heat: mofo did you send your linux patch using git send-email from gmail?
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<epony> mofo is short for mobile phone
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<gog> i'm back
<Ermine> gog is back!
<gog> tell a friend
<Ermine> heat: did you hear, gog is back!
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<heat> gog
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<gog> heat
<vdamewood> Hi back, I'm vdamewood.
* vdamewood gives back a fishy.
* vdamewood mentions gog to trick her client into highlighting her.
* gog chomp fishy
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<FireFly> guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back..
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<kaichiuchi> so
<kaichiuchi> i have a ducky mini keyboard now
<kaichiuchi> it is perfect
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<sham1> FireFly: no
<FireFly> fine, then don't guess
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<immibis_> Ermine: markov is so last two decades, we have GPT now
<immibis_> json is a convenient container of hierarchical data, kinda like python is for code
<immibis_> for quick and dirty scripting
<immibis_> maybe INI is better for configuration, slightly, but not by a whole lot, not really if you have things like nested lists or dicts
<Ermine> immibis_: we're talking about different things
<immibis_> yes that's the joke
<kaichiuchi> this keyboard is quite tiny
<kaichiuchi> i've never had a tenkeyless
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<FireFly> you never had a keyboard without numpad before? :o
<FireFly> hm
<kaichiuchi> never
<kaichiuchi> but i like it
<kaichiuchi> it's quite elegant and still very functional
<kaichiuchi> i was concerned for am inute
<kaichiuchi> minute*
<kaichiuchi> the only thing that nags me a bit is the fact I have an Fn key now
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<gog> i want the tenkey
<gog> get out of here with your toy keyboards
<kaichiuchi> :(
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<kaichiuchi> this is spooky
<bslsk05> ​old.reddit.com: Had to explain what a cassette is today. What was common growing up that's now obsolete? : AskReddit
<kaichiuchi> my cousin asked me what a cassette tape was a few days ago
<Bitweasil> Meanwhile, our house still has a turntable...
<Bitweasil> In active use.
* kaichiuchi old
<gog> floppies
<gog> i didn't carry around a usb flash drive until around 2004
<gog> still moved school files around on floppy
<immibis_> gog: tenkey sounds like tankie so it's bad
<gog> economic problems of socialism on 104-key keyboards
<heat> mjg, sup, sorry I didn't see your msg back there
<heat> yes, I did send-email from gmail. why?
<mjg> did you just slap your password in there?
<mjg> check it out, i sped up access(2) and ran into the lockref problem i mentioned some time ago
<mjg> test threads before after
<mjg> access1 1 1310582 2908735 (+121%) # distinct files
<mjg> access1 24 4716491 63822173 (+1353%) # distinct files
<mjg> access2 24 2378041 2005501 (-15%) # same file
<mjg> after patching lockref to not suck this bumps to over 5.3mln
<heat> mjg, no, you're supposed to go to your google account's "app passwords" section or something and generate a code you can use as a password
<mjg> i tried that, google says the feature is no longer active
<mjg> i mean available
<heat> I don't know if just using the plain old password works without 2FA but I have 2FA so I had no choice
<heat> let me see
<heat> mjg, https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords you can't use this to generate a password?
<bslsk05> ​myaccount.google.com: Account settings: Your browser is not supported.
<mjg> nope
<mjg> yo check this out
<mjg> fstat2_processes -t 96
<mjg> min:12768 max:12843 total:1229336
<mjg> sysctl fs.lockref_pause=0
<mjg> min:37998 max:69396 total:5222514
<mjg> tadah
<mjg> this is a problem for fucking YEARS now
<heat> wtf, wdym nope?
<mjg> i mean the pause instruction slapped into a cmpxchg loop which wants to inc/dec a counter
<mjg> is a terrible fucking idea on amd64
<mjg> original lockref did not do anything of the sort
<mjg> then someone from arm showed up with benchez for that cpu which show a benefit from their pause-equivalent
<mjg> ... and then it got slapped in for *all* archs
<heat> mjg, "App Passwords can only be used with accounts that have 2-Step Verification turned on."
<mjg> liek bro, plz
<heat> do you have 2FA?
<mjg> no, but i can slap it in
<heat> then just try your pw?
<mjg> not comfy with that
<mjg> anyway was hoping for a WEIRD TRICK
<heat> if you're not comfy with that, do keep in mind that you're going to send some sort of auth token in any case ;)
<mjg> welp time to write a ranty email
<heat> do it from @FreeBSD.org /s
<mjg> bro if i had an openbsd account i would SO do it
<mjg> but then again perhaps i would not be in position to write about smp
<heat> lol
<heat> also keep in mind the normal restrictions (no HTML, plain text, gmail sucks and wraps your lines automagically)
<heat> also if you still have issues with git send-email auth, I think there's a tool called b4 that can help out with that. basically it takes your patch and sends it internally from a @kernel.org with your actual email as a Reply-To or something
<mjg> ooh that would be nice
<mjg> talking about weird tricks!
<heat> grow a pair and use git send-email
<heat> fuck your phabricator
<heat> phuck*
<mjg> OOH
<mjg> that's my code review tool you are talking about!
<heat> it's my favourite unmaintained code review tool
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<mjg> this is an e-mail i intend to send to linux-fsdevel, looking for comments regarding clarity of what i'm trying to say: https://dpaste.com/HSCWRB9AW
<bslsk05> ​dpaste.com <no title>
<mjg> maybe i shold wrap it first :p
<mjg> https://dpaste.com/AYQNZERQ5 that\s better
<bslsk05> ​dpaste.com <no title>
<heat> mjg, I would just send a patch with a cover letter on top, maybe tagged RFC too
<heat> the text itself lgtm
<heat> ok heat@
<mjg> they are doing something werid with includes 'n shit
<mjg> it is not just a matter of adding ifdefs
<gog> hi
<moon-child> hi
<heat> mjg, well, the best way to get change is by sending a patch
<heat> so, if you're interested in something more than shitting on the lkml, that would be a good option
<zid> Mornin
<gog> there are no buses in gensokyo
<zid> is that a parable
<gog> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
* moon-child finds a file in his home directory titled 'todo' with the text 'boy do we have waht you want'
* moon-child is not quite sure what to make of this
<zid> k just had a dumb moment, "Where the hell is my thing, *searches desk frantically*, I know I brought it upstairs. I remember taking it out and putting it in *this* pocket"
<zid> It was in that pocket.
<gog> nice
* kof123 echo 'wouldn't you like to know?' > ~/.plan
<kof123> this is like nethack error messages, but statuses with attitude
* gog hacks
<zid> you should get that cough looked at gog
* gog wheezes and collapses
<moon-child> 3:
* gog dies
* moon-child pets god
* klange pets god and walks backward into hell
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<gog> hell yeah hail satan
<mjg> not on friday
<gog> it's not friday yet i have 13 minutes
<gog> 12
<mjg> apologies
<mjg> getting it out before midnight i see
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<zid> no getting it out
<zid> this is a christian irc channel
<bslsk05> ​'Harry Pollitt ((Live))' by The Limeliters - Topic (00:02:45)
<moon-child> timeless
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* Ermine dispatches a team of inquisitors
<mjg> nobody expects spanish inquisition
<epony> you mean, a new browser tab
<epony> so far it's an armdev channel
<epony> with mostly burps ;-) and peek/pokes
<epony> why does it have to even be a spanish review..
<epony> you can get that anytime, just ask nicely