<UltimateCodeWarr>
So what are the best practices for 3D printing, say you have a multi part item you wish to print, do you divide them up into multiple STL files or do you keep them in one file and just offset the parts away from each other, or both -- master build file and a bunch of smaller part files?
<stealth_>
UltimateCodeWarr, depends on the slicer software you are using, you can have multiple parts on each plate in bambu studio
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<J24k46>
UltimateCodeWarr best practice depends on your workflow - i like to keep my model within one module that can be called with a part parameter - so you can use the command line to generate the parts but also arrange them easy with a loop - if you use 3mf export with lazy union you can even get a multi part export - else you need just a small gap and
<J24k46>
every slicer can divide your multi-object into parts or objects
<J24k46>
stealth_ there is no benefit if you can't configure these extra tools.
<stealth_>
J24k46, what extra tools?
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<pca006132>
stealth_: the problem is that openscad works with meshes
<stealth_>
pca006132, not sure what you are getting at
<pca006132>
about support for .step
<pca006132>
for .step you probably want support for various curves, but meshes can only approximate curved faces with many planar faces
<stealth_>
i see, i saw some links saying freecad can import from openscad and export as .step !
<stealth_>
maybe openscan can export to another format before converting to .step ?
<pca006132>
the problem is that it will not be very useful... everything is approximate at the end, unless you run some smoothing algorithm to try to reconstruct the curved surfaces
<pca006132>
it is like exporting a circle as a polygon to some intermediate format and then convert it to svg
<pca006132>
sure it is svg, but it kind of defies the purpose
<stealth_>
i dont know much about openscad internal to talk about it
<InPhase>
Sometimes the purpose is of the form "entity X requires step formats". But it seems to be a misuse of the intent of the format, yes.
<stealth_>
for a test project i had to render and export 10+ .3fm files and import that into bambu studio. thinking it it was .step i would render+export once and manage it in bambu studio.
<stealth_>
in bambu stupid i can select the object and "split" it.. and it does give some basic option, maybe this feature can be import in that software vs openscad?
<stealth_>
studio* not stupid, lol
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<pca006132>
I think companies asking for step formats, e.g. for CNC, will be mad if you submit something converted from a mesh to them...
<UltimateCodeWarr>
So say you cut a sphere in some arbitrary way, not 50% that's to easy, say 30%. Is there a way to click on the flat face and get some information like diameter or area?
<J24k46>
UltimateCodeWarr after rendering you can use the measurement tool .. else you need to do the math yourself
<J24k46>
for primitives like a cylinder or sphere it will work so the csg primitive is converted into a curve - but as soon you do something more this is not possible anymore e.g. a polyhedra so you will have some mixed geometry in your file - and for 3D printing 3mf is the superior format
<stealth_>
i see, makes sense
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I was hoping there was some feature in the .scad editor where if you hover over a surface, it could give you some information -- I mean why not?
<stealth_>
if you right click it does, but not really useful!
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Not on Windows 11 at least
<UltimateCodeWarr>
What OS are you in?
<stealth_>
linux, it might be the openscad version you are using, i am using 2024.08.30.ai20307
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I do have a nightly build version, but no way to right click on a surface in the 3D perspective
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Does some popup window appear when you right click?
<stealth_>
ya, give you some info about the object and what line that code is on
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Ok, it worked now...
<stealth_>
like `cylinder(file.scad:123)`
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Yes, but it was slow as sloth, and didn't work on anything from the thread_scad lib
<stealth_>
it only works on preview not render view.
<stealth_>
hmm.. its pretty fast for me. like right click and the info is there.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
SO, preview/render view make no discernable sense to me. I figure if it was in preview, it would be a low poly model. If it was in render, it would be nice smoothly shaded.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Normalized tree has 11 elements!
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Compile and preview finished.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Total rendering time: 0:00:04.402
<UltimateCodeWarr>
This seems to indicate that it's in a Locked Render modality
<stealth_>
i just add `$fn = $preview ? 64 : 360;` at the top of the code, you might see a difference ?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
That didn't really do anything, I had $fn = 100;
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Did it need to be in single ticks?
<stealth_>
depends on the object, if you have `cylinder()` you might see a difference. mostly when you have complex objects
<stealth_>
single ticks?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Single quotes, apostrophes
<stealth_>
not sure what you are asking/saying but single quote doesn't seem to work on openscade you need to use double code e.g `color("yellow");`
<J24k46>
pca006132 i have again designs that can't export as 3mf anymore ( but works with 2024.06.25) - this "can't add triangles" is something needs fixing
<J24k46>
(also tested with lazy union off)
<J24k46>
UltimateCodeWarr instead of using $fn - use $fa=1;$fs=.5;
<UltimateCodeWarr>
'$fn= $preview ? 64:360;' <-- I was asking if the single quotes were necessary in this line
<J24k46>
this will segment objects depending on their size - so you don't have small objects with high segment numbers that slow everything down
<J24k46>
and no quotes
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<stealth_>
UltimateCodeWarr, no quote at all, its not ' i was using ` its to say this bit of text is code
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I just couldn't get it to work either way, and so I was wondering if there was some secret sauce
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I see it working now, by default it's in preview mode where it will use the low poly count of 64, whereas when you press F6 to render, it will use the 360 value and the surfaces are not patchy, but smooth. Nice. using that operator does slow things down a second in preview mode, I wouldn't expect it to have such a performance hit.
<stealth_>
you can change the value as you like, also do you have "manifold" enabled?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Yes, that speeded things up considerably.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Seems the more threads / cores you have the better the performance would get.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I wish 3D libraries would come with things like "Pipe" and "Bowl"
<UltimateCodeWarr>
When you are welding, you are using dimensional steel tubing and pipe, and I haven't seen many CAD packages out there cater to that, there's aways some CSG step needed.
<J24k46>
my library has those
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Which one is that?
<J24k46>
ub.scad .. but they are called "Rohr" - however just write your own library and modules for your needs - that is the charm with oSCAD
<UltimateCodeWarr>
That is true, making a toolbox is great, but I am still partial to the "took-box"
<UltimateCodeWarr>
ChatGPT sure can't do metric threads vs a hill a beans
<UltimateCodeWarr>
That's the problem with older tutorials, chat GPT is stuck into the past, and when interfaces are rolled, revamped, scrapped ... chat GPT gets a stale tool box
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Working on it, but don't laugh most of this was ChatGPT generated and noob tinkering
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I'm using the threads-scad library after ChatGPT failed with the outdated BOSL stuff it was using
<stealth_>
it wont take long, maybe you should just spend a day coding using openscad, you will get the hang of it. can't depend on automatede tools to get this right.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Right, I'm doing a top down/bottoms up hybrid approach in order to try and speed learn this setup. I like the concept behind the OpenSCAD. Years ago I messed around with PovRAY and MoRay with the I386 machines
<J24k46>
#5290 LOL .. guess we just build a version every day independent of commits
<J24k46>
UltimateCodeWarr you need to learn the tools like hull() as gpt has no idea of 3D space as an LLM it just combines things that were done by others
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
Agreed. It did help 'grease the skids'
<UltimateCodeWarr>
To it's credit, it got me on paper, but not on target as a marksman would say.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I nominate you to be the ChatGPT plugin
<J24k46>
if you know the tools you know the approach so it just takes you the time to write the 30 lines - and that is why i made my library because i am lazy and don't like to write the same things all over .. with my library i can do this with ⅓ writing
<J24k46>
well - you can pay me - Ü
<J24k46>
but you don't pay my time but my 10yr of experience
<UltimateCodeWarr>
That's actually not out of the question.
<J24k46>
reminds me i have to designe a lip gloss cap for my "client" - club member
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've got the software written for a Raspberry PI Security Camera, and wanted a housing for it that could withstand wind/weather. Wanted to print with ASA UV stabilized material. Got a Bambu Labs printer coming in 2 days.
<J24k46>
first thing - open the glas cover or raise it .. i always get heat creep when printing ASA .. so annoying
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I know I have a steep learning curve in front of me. I'm just so tired of the consumer grade security camera software out there.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I hope I didn't get Bambuzzled, I thought this thing was AI smart and could blow it's own nose.
<J24k46>
I wrote a nice script that combines camera images into 3second short time laps videos of 10min (real time) those are arranged on a website so you can see 1h of time with a 3second gimpse - quite effective for spotting changes
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I mean the X1C was supposed to crap out more than it printed.
<J24k46>
bambu printer are great as long they work - and you didn't ran into the bugs of BS(slicer)
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Don't tell me it's got constipation issues.
<J24k46>
Only if you print high temp - then you just open the door
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I figured I first would start with the AMS Bambu filament, the one that it's supposed to be able to read the label and set up the heat and feed rate. And then work my way into ASA CF. Any experience with that?
<stealth_>
UltimateCodeWarr, what printer are you getting? i just got the A1 myself and its pretty good
<stealth_>
why did you get the x1 vs a1 ? anything specific?
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
I did like the idea of printing with water soluble support materials, also cheaper infills.
<J24k46>
ASA CF is not from bambu and most CF are not AMS compatible
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
What about that Voxel stuff?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
(I'm getting all my filament initially from Bambu, coming from LA, I figured that would be the safest bet initially, and if it doesn't work they can't point the finger at some cut rate fillament)
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen some guys printing nylon from weed eaters
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Would be nice to be able to print the hull of this thing with UV Stabilized Material, but the infill with some sort of Nylon CF so that it's stronger than hell. That way if it falls off the mount for some reason it will roll like a bowling ball rather than shatter like an egg.
<stealth_>
well if $ is not the issue suppose x1 is a better system, since its enclosed.
<J24k46>
it would be easier to print this and coat - else for that you will have a spool of waste easy
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Yeah, that's the whole reason I bought the enclosure was to print ASA to keep the toxicity at a minimum and for the heat, but if I got to leave the oven door open ....that seems sketchy
<J24k46>
P1S offers the same for half the price (and no fancy display)
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Another nice thing about the X1C with AMS is that you can load it up with 4 spools of the same material to prevent running out of material when you are 99% done.
<J24k46>
if you use raiser to open a gap for the top cover the cold air will suck in and filtered
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I liked the Prusa 5-head, but it was so pricey, probalby 3k above the X1C after you festoon it out with all of the enclosures and pay for duties, shipping and handling etc..
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<stealth_>
UltimateCodeWarr, think you could have done all the tings you mentioned using A1 as well
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<J24k46>
ulitmaker offers two nozzle systems - so you can print supports / or two materials - but not intended for color printing
<stealth_>
i just feel like they are going to come out with x1 replacement soon, maybe next year.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Well, hope Bambu can survive the Patent Lawsuit from Stratasys
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Usually they take 3-5 years to settle, so....wonder how that will impact innovation.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
If we start seeing X1C Classics ... then you know.
<stealth_>
whats the lawsuit for?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Stupid stuff like nozzle wipes
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I think the AMS reading tags
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Statasys pioneered the filament extruders, but that was well over 20 year patent duration.
<stealth_>
serious? thats wont stick...
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I think what it's really about is these smaller companies taking business away from them as one commentator said.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Bambu is almost a billion dollar company and they haven't been around too long. Stratasys bought out Maker Bot
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Jk must subscribe to every Troubleshooting Feed on these Bambu Labs, you got a youtube channel by chance?
<stealth_>
well its cutthroat business world trying to knock off the other guy.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Competition is a good thing, I mean the government has anti-monopoly laws, so there is this gray area in patent enforcement.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Maybe the next Bambu Labs will be Black Market Labs X1B
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Going to have to buy them from guys running around selling them out of the back of Vans at Circuit City Parking Lots
<stealth_>
they shoudln't give patent out for common sense stuff like nozzle wipes. also government itself is a monopoly.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Lawfare is the worst kind of malfeasance. As far as the govt goes, we are still the healthiest patient in the cancer ward with that one.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
"What have we got Sir Benjamin Franklin?" "A Republic -- if you can keep it."
<stealth_>
o, you are tlaking about the US well republic died out a long time ago.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Yep, As soon as the Fed Reserve Banksters took over ... we have a Cartel running the show. The first tell tale sign is a Fiat Currency.
<stealth_>
its like that everywhere, gangsters running the show.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
All governments are formed from someone's 'war criminals'.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Just as all wars are bankster wars, think of the money you need to fight one.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Down payments are lately to the tune of 60billion / 100 billion and that's what they tell the public.
<J24k46>
reprap could use patented tech as it wasn't sold - around 2009 the FDM patent expired - that is why we have consumer 3D printer you can buy
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
It's true, it was some of the other stuff that came along later on that Stratasys patenent that they claim Bambu labs infringed on.
<stealth_>
isn't bambu lab based in China? don't think they care about patent stuff over there.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
The problem with most companies is that they got to keep expanding to stay healthy, if they can't they crash and burn
<J24k46>
why it is importand to develop 3d printing as open source - so they can't patent e.g scarf seams - btw bambu also has some patents
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Well, if there was an import restriction they would care, as the Chinese need western money flowing in.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Internet / Open Source / Knowledge sharing was a Tech Revolution, look at the wealth it created.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
The Innovation that happened because of it. I remember the days of proprietary stuff, and it was lousy. Where is Lotus 1, 2, 3 ?
<J24k46>
if you think sclic3r (prusa, bs, orca ..) is bad - you never worked with makerbot slicer - Ü
<UltimateCodeWarr>
You must have been on this Front since it's inception JK
<stealth_>
bambu stupid is pretty good compared to others slicer, well i am sure its based on those opensource slicer but they have improved it enough to being user friendly.
<J24k46>
i started using 3D printing when PETG filaments were available - as i had no use for PLA prints .. done things with epoxy and CF/GF fabric or rovings
<stealth_>
isn't pla still better for testing/prototyping?
<UltimateCodeWarr>
*this
<J24k46>
bambu has some way to go but they improving constantly which is great
<stealth_>
ya
<J24k46>
pla is terrible - and has an unpredictable failure mode
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I think Bambu Labs sold me some varriation of PLA, like PLA HF
<J24k46>
ASA or ABS can also print quite fast
<stealth_>
i use pla for testing/common stuff (i don't really care if it breaks) as its cheaper then others.
<stealth_>
than*
<J24k46>
pellets cost 1€/kg -
<stealth_>
i do have PETG-CF if i need something stronger, also it depends on how you print it like default 15% infill vs higher infill + shapes.
<stealth_>
1€/kg ? whats that...
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I saw a diagram where there is a rapid droppoff in strength less than 50% infill.
<J24k46>
PLA is just not usable over 60°C - we had printer (with PLA parts) that deformed when transported in a car (in summer)
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
Oh God, melted like a milk dud.
<stealth_>
J24k46, true
<J24k46>
50¢/lb
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen some whisperings of pellet extruders online, like that's the holy grail but I haven't seen anyone print with plastic pellets yet.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I don't like to be on the bleeding edge of tech -- where it hurts to be there. I just want to print, not spend my day trying to get some infernal device to print a benchie.
<stealth_>
I am too new to 3d printing to look at those systems, can't even think about affording it, lol
<J24k46>
some using a blade rig to slice PET-bottles .. pull through a 1.75 nozzle .. and print with that
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen that metal impregnated filament, that you got to send out to be sintered and it shrinks. Who's got time for that?
<J24k46>
there is a nice metal printing system that uses ultrasonic friction and wire
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<stealth_>
that would be cool, if its affordable
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen those 3D stainless steel printers, they were 100k for the printer, and then you needed all this other stuff to recondition the reclaimed metal powder. Would be fun to own, but I couldn't justify buying it.
<stealth_>
thats crazy, at least the pricess for 3d printer meterial will go down when you can get your hands on 3d printed metal parts.
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<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen some wax type fillaments that you can print in 3D and then use those for lost wax casting of metal parts.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
Most metals you can melt in your back yard with a propane forge, but steel takes much higher temps.
<stealth_>
cool, i was just thinking if there was such a thing...
<stealth_>
get like a induction melting system
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I built a waste oil burner to use my oil change to melt aluminum.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
If you can find a good 60kw military diesel generator, then an induction furnace will work :)
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I liked watching Mount Baker Mining and Materials on youtube, melt down a scrapped manganese steel plate and cast a new one in a tilt induction forge.
<stealth_>
would still be cheaper than that 100k printer.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
I've seen 100kw military 3 phase generators go for as little as $5k, and they only had like 500 hours on them.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
The tilt induction furnace will cost you and arm and a leg.
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<stealth_>
well if you are ready to do metal parts, you might as well get someone to do it for you that already has a setup. might be way cheaper.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
agreed, prototype it with plastic, then send the plans over to be printed in 3d stainless steel or make some molds.
<stealth_>
even if you do use a mold, you would still need to clean it up or cnc that to perfection.
<UltimateCodeWarr>
got to tap out. Nice chatting with you all, thanks for all the help.
<stealth_>
night
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<pca006132>
J24k46: just comment on the PR
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<Scopeuk>
that reminds me of a gam my grandparents had as a kid, it was similar apart from the paths were in a circular insert that could be rotated to make a route through
<InPhase>
Oh, is this that proprietary thing you highlighted before?
<teepee>
yep
* teepee
has that on ignore mode for quite some time now
<InPhase>
Yeah. A part of me appreciates that proprietary approaches understand the merit of code-cad. But I have no place in my life for proprietary languages unless absolutely necessary.
<InPhase>
I have periodically encountered proprietary compilers and such that were helpful for something I was doing, like targeting some niche thing. But propietary languages mean investing space in my brain to learn a language that comes with the chain of vendor lock-in. And that has never been anything short of problematic for me. And for all the obvious reasons.
<InPhase>
I could be nudged into investing a little mental space to learn a proprietary scripting language for use in a game or something, but I would only put a small mental investment into that for brief amusement. The bulk of my cognitive processes and ways of expressing things are going to be focused on things that work with tools and technologies that are open and that I can take with me to wherever I go or
<InPhase>
whatever I want to do without social restrictions.
<InPhase>
I adopted this philosophy... 30 years ago by now? And at this point I think the overwhelming majority of the programming world has come into alignment with the same view.