teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
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<potatosal> J22: so you had no issues in monterey?
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<J22> is it necessary that  hull creates 4× the facets? .. like a cylinder has 44 but hull()cylinder  has 236
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<J22> seems fast CSG can make a <5mb file   > 15 mb  (3mf)  not sure why
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<teepee> J22: that's what the remeshing is supposed to preverent, it's not always catching all cases yet
<teepee> ahem, prevent
<J22> ah ok .. found a case  where it is not working Ü
<teepee> yeah, there's still quite a number of cases where it complains about holes and such
<J22> was baffled when i reduced the number of elements on an older design and it came out 3× the size
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<Scopeuk> J22 if you have a nice minimal test case for it I'm sure OlivierChafik[m] would appreciate a bug report
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<dTal> wait, "difference()" works as invert when called with 1 argument? That's hugely useful and undocumented?
<dTal> I just accidentally ran a homegrown minkowski fillet/round module without defining the usual "big" and "bigger" giant squares/cubes to do the invert, and while the console complained about the undefined calls, the routine *still worked*
<dTal> ...okay, a simple test case in a new window doesn't work.
* dTal wonders what's going on
<dTal> module round2d(r){minkowski(){circle(r,$fn=128);difference(){big();minkowski(){circle(r,$fn=128);difference(){bigger();children();}}}}}
<dTal> this should not work!
<dTal> difference(){notreal();circle();} //and this DOESN'T work!
<dTal> ah no the results are not correct for the broken round2d()
<dTal> okay so this is definitely broken:
<dTal> on the latest nightly, you get spurious circles from the minkowski round, presumably caused by some leftover fragment of geometry due to precision loss. They move around, or vanish, if you play with the value of round2d() or $fn.
<dTal> It doesn't do it with OpenSCAD-2020.11.03.ai6054-59abb96-x86_64.AppImage
<InPhase> I get warnings about missing elements and no output. Not sure what you're talking about seeing or expecting to happen.
<InPhase> There's no logically correct output for geometry attempted on things that don't exist.
<dTal> forget the first thing I was talking about
<dTal> I figured that out - the bpaste is a completely separate issue
<dTal> sorry for the confusion
<InPhase> I think there was a behavioral change for minkowski with empty objects.
<InPhase> I remember discussions with... was it peepsalot? struggling over what the right thing was to do in this scenario.
<InPhase> I think that's what you're hitting here.
<dTal> But I'm not doing a minkowski with an empty object.
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 1 modifications (Enable bundled HIDAPI library for MXE builds.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/89aab164e811c3e55e7ee09e6ca6f7a385df15a8
<dTal> So this is just an ordinary minkowski of a circle with an ordinary (if holey) shape, and it leaves tiny slivers.
<dTal> You can see one around [1.017,0.419], and another at [1.017,-0.419]
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<dTal> factored a bit more clearly https://bpa.st/TEXA
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 1 modifications (Fix linker errors.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/3448ef97f253651d3abd751d2df3631cc112c56f
<J22> dTal  i get a big square with a rounded crescent hole
<dTal> look closely at the coordinates I mentioned
<J22> the circle is your position .. the circle is 0.05mm diameter
<dTal> Are you using the latest nightly?
<J22> 3.21
<dTal> I don't recognize that version scheme
<dTal> All the releases I've seen are simply dated
<J22> 27 is only for mac  ( 2022.3.27 )   ..  is the problem in 2022.3.22 ?  iam using 2022.3.21
<dTal> Ah I see
<dTal> I'm not at my computer so I can't test more thoroughly right now
<J22> what version you use?
<dTal> Not sure, dowloaded last few days
<dTal> I imagine any recent nightly should repro
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<J22> well  with 2022.3.21 which is the second latest for win  .. i can't see a problem
<J22> but you will always get issues with tiny things as the $fn matter .. like using offset
<dTal> You should never get holes inside the area of shapes fed to minkowski no matter how high fn is
<dTal> It's mathematically impossible
<J22> i don't get any
<InPhase> dTal: Hmm?
<InPhase> dTal: minkowski does not remove internal holes.
<InPhase> It's not a hull.
<InPhase> Unless of course it minkowskis out far enough to pinch them closed.
<dTal> I know. But you should never get *more* holes.
<dTal> If there's not a hole in a place, minkowski can't create one
<J22> maybe something was left in cache  .. i have seen weird things that vanished after flushing
<dTal> I'll try that when I get home.
<InPhase> I don't see holes. I do see some artifact lines in the wireframe.
<dTal> If I invert the result and minkowski with a circle again, the holes become circles.
<J22> but your TEXA case is  a valid geometry (no edge case)  and i agree you shouldn't see any additional holes to the crescent
<InPhase> The artifact lines appear to not change from turning fast-csg on or off.
<InPhase> So probably not ochafik's fault. :)
<dTal> Well that's fortunate :) it would suck if such a wonderful optimization led to incorrect behaviour
<InPhase> Okay, and they also appear as artifact spots in the svg output, so they are real.
<J22> when render i get  points at [1.12,+0.05]  that are not visible when "show edges"
<InPhase> I manually inspected an svg output with a text editor.
<InPhase> So not a display artifact, and not an artifact that appears downstream.
<InPhase> It's an artifact from this dTal paste alone, exported. https://bpa.st/4ODA
<J22> it is where faces meet
<J22> and there are  5  as far as i can see
<J22> 4 sorry
<InPhase> Are those internal vertices following the difference?
<J22> they are generated by the $fn  number and assuming the  generated faces
<InPhase> dTal: I've seen enough to conclude this needs to be an issue. Can you open one?
<InPhase> J22 should then post that png to it.
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 4 modifications (Merge pull request #4191 from thehans/qopenglwidget Remove obsolete QGLWidget preprocessor checks etc.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/d553fa5a73dfbe527a91e17e0633a788dfa2e4d4
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 5 additions 4 modifications (Merge pull request #4192 from openscad/win-enable-bundled-hidapi Windows: Enable bundled HIDAPI library.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/3eca38676f064eddc948b8223ffa5bcf632e4d43
<J22> you don't need any big square for them https://bpa.st/7CNQ
<J22> it is when a face is within a plane
<InPhase> Perhaps this shape should end up in the testing suite as well.
<InPhase> Clearly we don't have any 2D shapes producing internal vertices being massaged in this way, or the issue would not have gotten merged without fixing.
<InPhase> dTal: I award you 5 bonus points for good attention to detail. :)
<InPhase> Hmm. I wonder if it's a side-effect of the refactoring work that permitted fast-csg. This feels like some sort of floating point artifact. The spots appear to be on the scale of approximately 0.001 in thickness.
<J22> i think it is because minkowski is not rotation a circle around the edges ..  so the problem is not seen with offset..  - so with minkowski there are "unhappy" constellations of edges  ( like you can see with roof)
<InPhase> Hmm, yes, it's definitely dependent upon the $fn of the 0.1 circle.
<J22> i think the sqrt(2) also play a role .. (just crashed scad)
<J22> nah  the sqrt is not
<InPhase> Hmph. It ONLY seems to produce the artifact when the 0.1 circle is $fn=128.
<InPhase> I can't hit it for anything else?
<InPhase> Okay, but if I change the top level $fn to something else, the artifacts still exist but are just different.
<InPhase> It depends on a matching $fn between the two circles.
<J22> i am pretty sure it is like with roof ..    i only get that issue if both circles use the same $fn
<J22> you can solve this by rotation one circle rotate(1)
<J22> when two tri faces meet with an edge that is not reaching the perimeter of the geometry
<J22> here a simplified demonstrator https://bpa.st/QEDA
<J22> OlivierChafik[m]  can this be a result of how faces are calculated?
<J22> it seems to me that  edges that are within the plane causing errors when rendering
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 2 modifications (Merge pull request #4193 from luzpaz/testing-equality-to-None Fix python 'testing equality to None' issue.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/d444a31b8674d786eec16a181c26989d4949fb35
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<dTal> Yeah I'm also seeing geometry errors of a magnitude of about 0.0006
<dTal> I've calculated the center point of the round precisely, but if I put a circle of r=0.1 exactly there, I can see it doesn't quite match up - it matches the fillet if I translate it up by 0.0006
<dTal> look for yourself: translate([sqrt(2)/2+0.1,0.39821934127147884]) circle(0.1)
<dTal> s/up/down
<dTal> InPhase: I have to have a GitHub and all that stuff to create an issue, right?
<InPhase> A basic account, sure.
<InPhase> You just register, hit New Issue, and it's basically like posting on a forum or on reddit.
<InPhase> It's helpful for the person who notices a thing to post it, because sometimes more details are needed.
<dTal> I didn't need attention to detail - those tiny slivers turned into huge circles with the final step of my minkowski rounding :)
<dTal> interesting that offset() doesn't do it
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul closed issue #4165 (Instructions for building on a Rapberry Pi 4) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4165
<gbruno> [github] t-paul opened issue #4194 (HIDAPI not picked up by macOS build) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4194
<gbruno> [github] t-paul closed issue #4149 (Preview won't show an item that touches a hole(), but render works fine.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4149
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul closed issue #4045 (Feature request: Start external editor from TabManager.cc) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/4045
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