ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity." -- Terry A. Davis
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<kiedtl>
How is nuklear's accessiblity?
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<dilyn>
how much do you think it would cost to sponsor mold so that the license can change :V
<testuser[m]>
Hi
<dilyn>
o/
<noocsharp>
dilyn: did you get my patches in your email?
<riteo>
hi testuser[m]!
<dilyn>
which email did you send to?
<noocsharp>
tutanota
<dilyn>
straight to spam!
<dilyn>
lol
<riteo>
lol
<dilyn>
i'll apply them tho thx
<noocsharp>
bruh, i assumed using migadu would fix that
<dilyn>
idk man tutanota is strict AF about their emails
<dilyn>
"Hopefully Tutanota accepts mail from Migadu." kekw
<dilyn>
I check my spam on there about once a day to clear it out because of it so I would've seen them in the morning
<dilyn>
but yeah it's a little frustrating
<dilyn>
hm the real question is what format does git expect these to be in for git am
<riteo>
maybe the same it uses for creating them?
<testuser[m]>
git format-patch ?
<dilyn>
probably
<noocsharp>
do you use webmail?
<dilyn>
tutanota doesn't have a desktop client that would build (without dbus) and they wont' let you connect via something like aerc :\
<noocsharp>
they don't support imap or pop3?
<riteo>
they don't
<noocsharp>
what kind of email service is that
<riteo>
also iirc their client is simply a js wrapper, otherwise there would already be a simpler alternative
<riteo>
noocsharp: one of those "encrypted" services, a la protonmail
<dilyn>
it's like protonmail except they don't even have a bridge afaik
<testuser[m]>
Lol
<riteo>
I ditched it as soon as possible and switched to posteo, just 1€/month
<riteo>
seriously, there hasn't been any good "free" mail service I could find
<dilyn>
yeah i'm considering it
<testuser[m]>
KISSmail
<dilyn>
my premium expires end of month iirc
<dilyn>
lol testuser yes
<riteo>
testuser[m]: written in POSIX shell
<dilyn>
soon(tm) life is literal chaos...
<dilyn>
tomorrow, if nothing comes up during my lunch, the vps might reappear inexplicably...
<acheam>
mailbox.org
<acheam>
is very good
<acheam>
(although proprietary)
<dilyn>
f
<acheam>
yay vps
<noocsharp>
migadu is $20 a year, seems good so far
<acheam>
they also have a student discount
<noocsharp>
but you need a domain
<acheam>
yes
<acheam>
which you should have anyways
<noocsharp>
yeah, $10 a year with student discount
<noocsharp>
i'm on the trial right now
<acheam>
nice
<acheam>
mailbox.org is $14/yr
<riteo>
a vps sounds unironically like the best option if you already have one
<acheam>
but less restrictive
<dilyn>
migadu's logo is an elephant??
<dilyn>
sold
<riteo>
based
<acheam>
migadu isn't particularly transparent from what i've heard
<acheam>
but you cant really go wrong with either
<noocsharp>
in what way?
<acheam>
posteo is fine, but no custom domains IIRC
<noocsharp>
i sent them an email and they told me what software they use
<riteo>
acheam: yeah that's a big bummer but with someone constrained like me this is the cheapest option I could find
<acheam>
noocsharp: i dont remember exactly, but someone mentioned planned deliverability issues that they didn't disclose very well/notify about
<acheam>
obviously very anecdotal
<dilyn>
can't be worse than tutanota
<dilyn>
they take my soon(tm) to the n^th degree
<riteo>
migadu looks nice
<dilyn>
it's very bad for people who are very serious/businessy with their email, but is pretty solid for a simple person who subscribes to mailing lists/does very little, only wants to read emails and not much more
<dilyn>
well worth the $13/yr tbh for those purposes
<riteo>
wait, what's $13/yr?
<dilyn>
tuta
<riteo>
oh, I see
<acheam>
tuta also has a nice variety of domains to choose from
<dilyn>
mmhmm
<acheam>
mine was firstname@tutamail.com
<acheam>
which you certainly cant get on gmail
<riteo>
no domain will make you comfortable telling your email to normies
<dilyn>
i wanna use the phrase "CC me at dilyn@dilyn.cc pls"
<acheam>
unless your name is 2ji3ri3oir32rqoir32oij
<acheam>
lmao
<acheam>
"someone run me a line of 10 CCs of Dilyn in an IV, stat!"
<acheam>
-- some american medical show somewhere
<dilyn>
"we're losing him"
<dilyn>
f
<acheam>
the gnuuugle is getting to him!
<dilyn>
:'(
<dilyn>
they're upset that i've widdled the GPL out of this distro as much as humanly possible
<riteo>
I'm still waiting for the MIT/Unlicense Linux reimplementation
<acheam>
dilyn: just run openbsd
<riteo>
kbs when
<dilyn>
no!
<acheam>
riteo: soon
<riteo>
s/kbs/kbsd
<acheam>
although reilistically, after january
<riteo>
wait seriously
<acheam>
when I am done with college aps, and I have free time again
<acheam>
yes
<acheam>
its really not that much to do
<acheam>
kiss is just a package manager after all
<acheam>
and claudia already did a ton of work on it
<dilyn>
the problem with using someone else's distro is they'll just ram pango into things
<dilyn>
like what they do for chromium :V :V :V
<riteo>
I'm curious how well the OBSD kernel would withstand being used in non common ways
<dilyn>
I feel very uncomfortable using ubuntu :|
<acheam>
riteo: well i'm not planning on using just the obsd kernel
<riteo>
oh
<acheam>
the whole userland
<riteo>
I see
<riteo>
how heavy is it?
<acheam>
obsd kernel + busybox ruins most of what makes obsd special
<acheam>
you have to use it to understand
<acheam>
but its just a really well integrated operating system
<riteo>
got it
<riteo>
talking about weird kernel combinations, has someone ever tried messing up with L4?
<riteo>
I don't know if there are even the drivers for a common PC, but I wonder what could be done with it
<riteo>
KISS-OS when?
<noocsharp>
it's called templeos and it's unusable
<riteo>
actually I heard someone forked it and added internet access, so I guess it's slightly more usable
<riteo>
but terry must be spinning in his grave
<riteo>
truly an heresy, I know
<GalaxyNova>
I'm curious if it would be possible to hack KISS onto the OpenBSD or Plan9 kernel
<riteo>
on openbsd for sure ig
<riteo>
on plan9 I guess it depends on whether or not there is a POSIX shell there and if it doesn't have some weird mechanism messing KISS up, which it probably doesn't have but I never got past the installer lol
<testuser[m]>
Bruh i don't wanna update this shit again
<GalaxyNova>
do you unironically use chromium?
<testuser[m]>
Real kiss users don't use js anyway
<riteo>
based and kisspilled
<GalaxyNova>
yes
<GalaxyNova>
just use `curl`
<GalaxyNova>
riteo: But I would unironically use a KISS-OS if it existed
<GalaxyNova>
finally the possibility for 0% GPL!
<riteo>
you know what
<riteo>
one day I should really disappear from society for a few days in order to investigate this L4 thing properly
<riteo>
it might even just last a few days, but in sessions of even a few hours I never got to properly understand the whole situation regarding alternative kernels
<GalaxyNova>
riteo: did you find a good email provider
<riteo>
oh yeah, I chose posteo
<GalaxyNova>
oh interesting
<GalaxyNova>
I was going to recommend you cock.li lol
<GalaxyNova>
ubuntu unity's website is the definition of web bloat
<riteo>
HOLY FUCK
<GalaxyNova>
it takes like 5 minues to load too lmao
<riteo>
I'VE NEVER SEEN A PAGE CHANGE SO MUCH WHILE LOADING
<riteo>
also those animations, wtf
<GalaxyNova>
so.. much... css...
<riteo>
it even got those flat "minimalist" and soulless pictures
<GalaxyNova>
it's almost like the devs just learnt about some css animation framework and tried to pack every single element with an animation
<riteo>
it's so bloated it's objectively bad
<riteo>
look at that thing with pages
<riteo>
it's unusable
<riteo>
(is it called carousel? I can't remember)
<testuser[m]>
How can something suck so bad
<testuser[m]>
how
<riteo>
after seeing this I want to uninstall firefox and switch to gemini forever
<riteo>
now that kisslinux.org doesn't even have that "fancy" css anymore I really don't see why there souldn't be a gemini mirror for it
<riteo>
s/souldn't/shouldn't/
<cotangent>
<riteo> now that kisslinux.org doesn't even have that "fancy" css anymore I really don't see why there shouldn't be a gemini mirror for it
<dilyn>
that site wont' even load for me lmfao
<riteo>
lmao
<testuser[m]>
i think kiedtl has one but its out of date
<GalaxyNova>
give it a minute
<GalaxyNova>
it needs to load all the css and js
<dilyn>
oh no i see
<dilyn>
i have to hit the x button in the top-right corner
<testuser[m]>
alright i begin my felinks + ff for pozzed sites journey again
<riteo>
yes, that's how you load "modern" html/css/js web pages
<riteo>
testuser[m]: good luck
<GalaxyNova>
testuser[m]: what features does felinks have over links
<riteo>
I'm really starting to think that I should use dedicated CLIs for services I use (pretty much shithub) and try to avoid depending on firefox as much as possible
<testuser[m]>
GalaxyNova: css
<GalaxyNova>
If you have a job or go to school it's basically impossible to do that where i live riteo
<GalaxyNova>
especailly now during the pandemic
<GalaxyNova>
basically that's only feasable if you're unemployed
<testuser[m]>
Yeah riteo i use shithub cli, the only site i need to login to is protonmail. And poogle for school stuff
<riteo>
GalaxyNova: I pretty much only use google classroom
<GalaxyNova>
I wonder if someone ported plan9's abaco web browser to linux
<testuser[m]>
You can be the first
<GalaxyNova>
lol
<GalaxyNova>
it's very integrated with Plan9's gui so it might be a pain to port
<dilyn>
hm. this qemu image experienced a drastic power failure, systemd wouldn't let it boot for surreal reasons
<dilyn>
attempted a fix, and in 300 seconds systemd's journal filled the entire 50GB qcow2 file with garbage.
<dilyn>
fuckin' love it
<GalaxyNova>
just systemd being systemd
<riteo>
they did it
<riteo>
they pushed systemd-backdoor
<dilyn>
(:
<dilyn>
absolutely useless
<GalaxyNova>
systemd-backdoord*
<GalaxyNova>
bc its a unix daemon
<dilyn>
like i don't even know how to fix this
<dilyn>
this is beyond my technical knowledge. how ubuntu sets up ZFS is a black box
<GalaxyNova>
Just the other day I was wondering why an advanced distro like KISS Linux is somehow easier for me to use than Manjaro
<dilyn>
because if you're competent enough, you know everything about the system
<dilyn>
at least when KISS' init fails, it tells me why. it's not obfuscated by absurdities like "graphical.target failed because 'exit error'"
<dilyn>
like, what the fuck does that help me with
<testuser[m]>
Do it dilyn
<testuser[m]>
Make canonical adopt kiss
<GalaxyNova>
lmao
<dilyn>
lol
<dilyn>
and of course I can't open up qcow2 images in... a sane manner...
<dilyn>
urgh
<dilyn>
nuke and hope I remember my changes I guess...
<dilyn>
super want to dual boot ubuntu on this machine so I don't have to rely on qemu for big snaps/ease of use, but they'll force grub onto this machine. and grub is a firehouse when all I want is a squirt bottle
<dilyn>
even trying to use kiss-live, grub just nukes all my efivars. it's insanity
<dilyn>
just... don't fucking do that, eh? pls?
<riteo>
bruh
<riteo>
wasn't the point of free software being in control of your machine
<dilyn>
:)
<dilyn>
maybe this is why wsl is so popular, eh?
<GalaxyNova>
wait why are you running an ubuntu vm in the first place dilyn
<dilyn>
to build a chromium snap that only uses wayland and enables pipewire for screensharing to run on my laptop
<GalaxyNova>
ah
<GalaxyNova>
pipewire scares me
<GalaxyNova>
it's the only way for firefox to do screensharing on wayland no?
<riteo>
bruh seriously?
<testuser[m]>
yeah GalaxyNova i tried it yesterday didnt even work but thats probably a config issue
<testuser[m]>
yeah you need either basu, elogind or systemd
<GalaxyNova>
what is basu?
<testuser[m]>
The sd-bus library, extracted from systemd.
<GalaxyNova>
nice i guess
<testuser[m]>
I dont even know what it's supposed to do
<testuser[m]>
but it's needed
<riteo>
way different topic, but why didn't you guys make kisscommunity.org in the style of kisslinux.org?
<testuser[m]>
> Some projects rely on the sd-bus library for DBus support.
<GalaxyNova>
either way I'm confident Dylan would never include pipewire in the main repository haha
<aws>
i can ask him, but the answer would be no
<riteo>
yeah I don't think so. My biggest question is why it's needed for videosharing in the first place
<riteo>
is it just because of flatpaks?
<testuser[m]>
it was just decided to use it by the protocol
<testuser[m]>
so
<GalaxyNova>
aws: I woudn't even bother
<testuser[m]>
a request to dylan to fork every single one of these things and make them communicate via regular sockets would be more feasible aws
<GalaxyNova>
How hard would it be to patch out pipewire with something else
<dilyn>
it's required because pipewire was designed from the ground up to be an useful way of capturing and interacting with a variety of systems like video and audio
<dilyn>
and connecting them in ways pulseaudio was supposed to, but failed to
<testuser[m]>
GalaxyNova: Other stuff is hard dependant on dbus aswell, not just pipewire so its not a small task
<dilyn>
pipewire provides a solid way of capturing video, and the way it interacts with dbus allows wayland to leverage it for screen capturing pretty well
<riteo>
>dbus
<riteo>
wait
<riteo>
does it depend on dbus?
<dilyn>
afaik it's basically impossible to NOT use pipewire for wayland screen capturing
<dilyn>
to make it useful in this context it does
<GalaxyNova>
:(
<dilyn>
but you could try to build it with libdbus-stub; i did, it built
<dilyn>
didn't quite run super well tho
<riteo>
now I see why it isn't in KISS Linux
<GalaxyNova>
we have stuff like wf-recorder so why woudn't it be possible for things like firefox to implement something like that too
<aws>
Browser wayland screensharing use pipewire, using another daemon (that isn't designed to mimic pipewire) would require upstream support for them in browsers i think
<riteo>
bruh
<riteo>
I mean, the idea is actually pretty nice, but why does everything new and shiny have to depend on a shitton of "modern" software?
<riteo>
also it was initially called PulseVideo, which I find funny
<riteo>
*for some reason
<GalaxyNova>
I can't see it being to hard to use wf-recorder as a backend to screensharing in firefox
<GalaxyNova>
so why did the guys go with pipewire
<riteo>
I guess the fact that it's: "modern", widely used and configuration independent (in a way)
<riteo>
like, it does all the hard work AFAICT
<riteo>
still, some sort of shim that interfaces with pipewire dependent applications and just does the bare minimum doesn't sound impossible
<riteo>
unless firefox uses dbus for interacting with pipewire
<dilyn>
i mean pipewire is also used for rtc reasons and wf-recorder probably isn't very good for those things
<GalaxyNova>
I've seen someone hack `grim` in a while loop to take lots fo screenshots and then write them to /dev/video
<testuser[m]>
where
<dilyn>
oh i think i saw that too...
<dilyn>
it was pretty dope lmao
<riteo>
that doesn't sound very efficient though
<riteo>
or is it
<noocsharp>
could wf-recorder be used like that?
<GalaxyNova>
I mean it would be very akward since chatting websites would detect the video as camera video
<riteo>
that's literally how I used discord for half an year
<GalaxyNova>
lol
<dilyn>
I just don't know that the overhead is any better than pipewire
<dilyn>
like pipewire seems pretty slim
<testuser[m]>
i dont even have a /dev/video
<testuser[m]>
oh i guess i need camera support
<dilyn>
v4l to the rescue
<riteo>
based and v4l2pilled
<dilyn>
between v4l and kvm support my kernel is twice as big as I need it to be :V
<GalaxyNova>
but why install something that can do advanced audio/video manipulation only for screensharing
<riteo>
are you talking about ffmpeg
<dilyn>
well because it's the way chromium devs implemented screensharing under wayland
<dilyn>
idk
<riteo>
btw talking about kernel size, do you guys think that compressing the kernel is any useful?
<dilyn>
not supremely
<riteo>
doing that made my disk decryption prompt blink its cursor once and as stupid as it sounds it's kinda annoying
<GalaxyNova>
riteo well I use ffmpeg for a lot more than just screensharing
<riteo>
nvm, I thought you actually meant v4l2
<GalaxyNova>
it's basically the only way to convert between different video / audio formats
<GalaxyNova>
and it's a great cli video editor
<riteo>
actually I think it's the only cli video editor
<riteo>
once I had to edit some simple videos having only an android phone
<riteo>
I actually had to use ffmpeg on termux lol
<GalaxyNova>
Is there anything actually useful on gemini?
<GalaxyNova>
it seems most of the capsules are either blogs or personal websites
<riteo>
not yet I think
<riteo>
there are some http proxies though
<riteo>
so I guess that *technically* you could live with only a gemini browser?
<testuser[m]>
so basically invidious but for the pozzed web
<riteo>
yeah, pretty much
<riteo>
and there are some mirrors of some stuff (such as the old k1ss website). I wonder if there's a wikipedia mirror
<GalaxyNova>
would be great if there were some kind forums or something
<GalaxyNova>
don't know if that would be too complicated for gemini
<riteo>
yeah I was thinking the same thing
<riteo>
IIRC there are some sort of chat rooms that exploit the prompt feature or something like that
<riteo>
probably a mailing list would be easier
<testuser[m]>
Just use irc as forum
<dilyn>
as long as it's logged
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<riteo>
well, the point of forums is to have different discussions around the same topic at different times
<GalaxyNova>
^
<riteo>
sorta like a mailing list
<GalaxyNova>
gemini supports POST right?
<GalaxyNova>
or something like POST
<riteo>
yeah I guess so
<riteo>
there is a text prompt
<riteo>
GUS exists so surely, yeah
<GalaxyNova>
guess that's an interesting project idea
<GalaxyNova>
forum for gemini
<riteo>
I wonder if it's already been done
<riteo>
I wouldn't be surprised if on some obscure and unkown corner of the internet there was some forum talking about mashed potatoes on gemini
<riteo>
s/was/were/
<cotangent>
<riteo> I wouldn't be surprised if on some obscure and unkown corner of the internet there were some forum talking about mashed potatoes on gemini
<dilyn>
that doesn't seem germane to the interprise tbh xD
<dilyn>
I'm moreso imagining a bunch of *cough cough* enthusiasts screaming at clouds
<riteo>
I asked that before but didn't get an answer: dilyn, why is kisscommunity.org not stylized like kisslinux.org?
<riteo>
f
<riteo>
sorry, wrong window
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<dilyn>
because that's not the design choice jedahan went with
<dilyn>
they have total control over design and direction :)
<riteo>
I see
<dilyn>
we still need to change the org icon...
<riteo>
do you have any ideas on that?
<dilyn>
i liked jedahan's lipstick emoji idea
<riteo>
oh it'd be nice
<riteo>
also like, symbolically
<riteo>
it would be the layer on top of kiss which makes it nicer
<dilyn>
exactly why i liked it : D
<dilyn>
s/: D/:D/
<cotangent>
<dilyn> exactly why i liked it :D
<riteo>
nice :D
<GalaxyNova>
interestingly enough the official kiss linux website doesn't render correctly in netsurf but kisscommunity.org does
<riteo>
that's weird
<GalaxyNova>
yeah
<GalaxyNova>
the spacing is off
<riteo>
ooooh that issue?
<riteo>
does netsurf support monospaced fonts?
<GalaxyNova>
uh
<riteo>
kisslinux.org needs that to work, as it's basically a glorified text file
<GalaxyNova>
idk
<GalaxyNova>
having a community maintained wiki would be the dream
<GalaxyNova>
I've started one in the website's repository but seems like no one added their packages there ;(
<testuser[m]>
dilyn is it possible to share the webcam without pipewire stuff ?
<testuser[m]>
on wayland
<dilyn>
what do you mean share?
<dilyn>
you can use your webcam in chromium without pipewire if that's what you're asking
<testuser[m]>
ok
<testuser[m]>
thanks
<dilyn>
just needs the write access permissions (root:video 660)
<dilyn>
is what I go with at least
<dilyn>
might have to restart the browser for perm changes to get picked up but other than that I've had no issues with a webcam and external mic
<testuser[m]>
so it is technically possible to redirect ffmpeg into /dev/video*
<riteo>
oh yeah sure
<dilyn>
i mean people have done that so i assume if you setup the write dev node chromium could read it just fine
<riteo>
I always done that with v4l2
<riteo>
just create a new video device with v4l2 and redirect ffmpeg through it
<dilyn>
because the node is persistent and you just write an image to it every however-often... i don't know why chromium COULDN'T pick that up, in principal
<GalaxyNova>
you'll get a bunch of weird reactions from people you're video chatting with though haha
<riteo>
eh, it depends
<riteo>
if you're in a school it isn't rare to see people using virtual webcams for all sort of stuff
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<riteo>
bruh did gdb really take all my 16 GB of ram
<illiliti>
riteo: cock.li is good if you don't need custom domain feature, aliases, two-factor auth, ...
<illiliti>
i can give you invite code
<riteo>
thanks for the offer, but now I already have a posteo account and I'm pretty comfy
<testuser[m]>
bruh why's the site so edgy
<riteo>
I mean, it's literally called cock.li
<illiliti>
riteo: have you considered purelymail?
<illiliti>
it doesn't support ipv6 but looks pretty good overall
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<testuser[m]>
Hmm has anyone had the issue where plugging in a usb stick shows it in dmesg, but no new block device for it is created ? Pretty sure my kernel does support the filesystem
<dilyn>
i believe it's the same as your question at least
<Hazoune>
thanks, dilyn! :D
<dilyn>
:)
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<micro_O>
o/
<testuser[m]>
dbus can be run fine rootless right ?
<testuser[m]>
hi micro_O
<dilyn>
dbus should be run under its own user/group
<testuser[m]>
oh
<testuser[m]>
guess i can just fool it for the group stuff then run all the daemons inside a single bwrap container https://termbin.com/rydf. all killed when i exit it
<dilyn>
well i say 'should', it's more like 'can'
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<akira01>
Anyone with the AV1 error in mpv?
<akira01>
Says my platform doesnt support hardware accelerated
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<riteo>
hiiiiiiiiiiiii!
<akira01>
hi riteo
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<riteo>
I'll go, bye!
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<dilyn>
testuser[m]: how are you building pipewire?