ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.org | post logs or else | "An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity." -- Terry A. Davis
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<midfavila-laptop> >terry quote
<midfavila-laptop> based
<midfavila-laptop> although I feel like a number of people have said such things. anyway what are you dweebs up to
<dilyn> discovered that the chromium snap disables wayland support and doesn't support pipewire so it doesn't have access to webrtc's pipewire capture feature
<dilyn> so i'm going to build my own snap...
<dilyn> so i'm setting up qemu with ubuntu kekw
<midfavila-laptop> >ubuntu
<midfavila-laptop> >snaps
<midfavila-laptop> why do you forsake the true path dilyn
<dilyn> your face when
<midfavila-laptop> blocked and reported
<dilyn> f
<midfavila-laptop> ebay is recommending me veggietales after buying euler's elements of algebra
<midfavila-laptop> i feel personally attacked
<noocsharp> imagine paying for a book written by a dead person
<midfavila-laptop> i prefer owning physical books.
<midfavila-laptop> no bully.
<noocsharp> fair
<noocsharp> probably a good idea to have physical copies for when civilization collapses
<midfavila-laptop> implying i'm not going to hand-wire a Z80-based computer with access to plaintext copies of every known cultural and scientific work of mankind via a decentralized peer-to-peer radio network
<midfavila-laptop> but yes physical books are very convenient
<midfavila-laptop> i'd like to spend more time reading, but alas, i'm in the midst of moving, so all my textbooks are packed
<midfavila-laptop> and it's a royal pain to do my usual exercises on my tiny laptop screen
<noocsharp> unfortunately decentralized peer-to-peer radio networks require peers
<dilyn> how safe do you imagine libraries would be in an apocalypse...
<dilyn> :thinking:
<midfavila-laptop> i mean
<midfavila-laptop> probably fairly
<midfavila-laptop> depends on the construction of your library but I imagine they'd be easily defensible
<midfavila-laptop> large enough to house a decent number of people, grow a small amount of food, etc
<midfavila-laptop> and it's mundane so I don't think most people would be interested in shakespearean literature when they're trying to find the world's last twinkie
* midfavila-laptop shrugs
<dilyn> if my high school experience taught me anything, most surviving teens would burn it for the lulz and because 'reading is dum'
<dilyn> :'(
<midfavila-laptop> that's disappointing.
<midfavila-laptop> I've always figured that the first places I would go in the event of societal collapse would be a museum followed by a library.
<noocsharp> we should launch a bunch of satellites containing important books, and put them into orbits that have a high chance of colliding with earth in 10000 years
<midfavila-laptop> >tfw your last hope for preserving human culture lands in the middle of the ocean
<noocsharp> maybe it'll float to land
<midfavila-laptop> also there's the slight assumption that people are still literate
<noocsharp> include that thing they put on voyager that explains how sounds correspond to letters
<midfavila-laptop> man all these fucking soydevs on github steal my totally cool and original program names
<midfavila-laptop> this is bullshit
<noocsharp> and a dictionary
<noocsharp> like what?
<midfavila-laptop> i was going to write a text editor and call it scribe
<midfavila-laptop> i'm still going to write a text editor but now it will probably not be called scribe
<noocsharp> tbh it's your fault for not expecting scribe to already be taken
<acheam> oh hi midfavila-laptop
<midfavila-laptop> i didn't entirely expect it to not be taken
<midfavila-laptop> there's like 1500 text editors on shithub
<midfavila-laptop> hi acheam
<acheam> thank you for calling my quote choice based
<acheam> scribe is a good name
<midfavila-laptop> it would be more based if it was a terry original
<acheam> oh?
<midfavila-laptop> like the bird quote
<acheam> eh
<acheam> he still said it maybe
<acheam> i found it on some blog
<midfavila-laptop> i feel like it was actually einstein
<midfavila-laptop> smh my damn head
<midfavila-laptop> not even attributing quotes properly
<acheam> for program names, I just call mine really genericly
<midfavila-laptop> i like to anthropomorphize mine in some manner, or name them after tools
<acheam> and just assume that people will refer to it as "acheam's calendar"
<acheam> or something
<midfavila-laptop> for example, I intend to write a system tray called Platter
<acheam> i like that
<midfavila-laptop> because Platter serves icons promptly
* midfavila-laptop nods
<acheam> i guess for my thing to work well, you need a unified online persona
<dilyn> > scribe
<acheam> not the many names by which I go
<midfavila-laptop> you need a *brand*
<dilyn> rename it scribd
<acheam> lmao
<midfavila-laptop> scribeded
<acheam> be fancy and use some french word
<acheam> good way to test your poonicode support
<midfavila-laptop> just because I'm canadian doesn't mean I speak french
<midfavila-laptop> smh my damn head
<acheam> your not just canadian
<dilyn> sxribe
<acheam> your /east/ candadian
<midfavila-laptop> figured you would be above stereotypes acheam
<dilyn> has an x, must be french
<cumin[m]> "smh" means shake my head...fyi
<dilyn> i think tha'ts the yoke
<midfavila-laptop> wow thanks cumin I didn't know that
<midfavila-laptop> your commentary is so insightful
<cumin[m]> midfavila-laptop: I'm not trying to flame you
<cumin[m]> I was just trying to let you know
<midfavila-laptop> - w-
<midfavila-laptop> anyway yeah I've been thinking of a bunch of tools I want to try and implement as side-projects. i've been thinking of trying to write a simple replacement for curl called courier, for example. a session manager would also be nice
<midfavila-laptop> just little things.
<noocsharp> tfw musl is missing syscall numbers
<midfavila-laptop> would also be nice to write an sftp client for dropbear
<acheam> midfavila using sftp?
<midfavila-laptop> i know
<midfavila-laptop> a scandal
<midfavila-laptop> but it's true
<acheam> but hwhy
<acheam> seriously though, whats the point of sftp
<midfavila-laptop> the ssh->scp workflow is legitimately a pain in my ass
<acheam> rsync
<midfavila-laptop> no
<acheam> yes
<midfavila-laptop> imagine actually thinking I would do something sane
<acheam> openssh upstream has already made sftp a part of the scp command
<midfavila-laptop> i don't have any interest in using openssh
<acheam> (because screw unix philosiphy, amirite)
* midfavila-laptop shrugs
<midfavila-laptop> i'm slowly but surely mutilating my fork of the KISS repos from a while back
<acheam> nice
<midfavila-laptop> so far we've only increased the base install size by a factor of around fifteen :^)
<dilyn> that's gnu for you
<acheam> we need a middle ground between openssh and dropbear IMO
<midfavila-laptop> the only GNU is sed and like
<midfavila-laptop> binutils and gcc
<acheam> something thats openssh-key compatible, but much less bloated
<midfavila-laptop> if I used -box style executables it'd be a lot smaller but size isn't my primary concern
<acheam> for the average user, who doesn't need X11 forwarding and other random stuff
<midfavila-laptop> "bro just don't use it bro"
<acheam> the sed landscape is sadly barren
<midfavila-laptop> it really is
<dilyn> sed is hard
<midfavila-laptop> once I work through some of my textbooks I intend to write my own complete userland
<midfavila-laptop> including sed and such
<acheam> yeah I wouldn't want to work on implementing it
<acheam> okay, i'm off for the night, got a big standardized test tomorrow
<midfavila-laptop> my autism cannot be quelled
<midfavila-laptop> my righteous fury against GNU will be known
<acheam> this is the first time i've logged off before seeing testuser[m]'s "hi" :(
<midfavila-laptop> have fun with your multiple choice quiz acheam
<midfavila-laptop> and all the fancy book lernins
<acheam> why thank you, midfavila-laptop
<midfavila-laptop> i'm sure it's very educational
<dilyn> good luck acheam!
<noocsharp> is it SAT time already?
<midfavila-laptop> what even is the SAT anyway? there's nothing like it in canada
<midfavila-laptop> i vaguely recall it has something to do with getting into post secondary.
<dilyn> just a competency test basically
<dilyn> english math bla
<midfavila-laptop> pretty cringe.
<dilyn> a lot of west-coast post-secondary education requires an SAT score
<dilyn> not so much on the east-coast
* midfavila-laptop shrugs
<dilyn> (they want an ACT tho, roughly similar but different)
<midfavila-laptop> that reminds me I need to see if I can challenge the entry requirements for my local university
<noocsharp> schools require it less and less nowadays
<dilyn> that's good
<dilyn> sat should be phased out
<dilyn> same with act. my score was amazing, and i got nothing for it :'(
<dilyn> no scholarships and a blazingly fast acceptance letter to a mediocre state school. wooooooo
<midfavila-laptop> i'd rather go to my provincial university than the private college I'm at now
<midfavila-laptop> every day makes me want to shoot myself. it's so bad.
<midfavila-laptop> like, last week, right, the instructor just... didn't show up. at all.
<midfavila-laptop> just... because.
<noocsharp> tf kinda private college is that
<midfavila-laptop> a shitty one.
<noocsharp> why is linux giving me syscall not implemented
<midfavila-laptop> the thing that drives me up the wall the most about it though is that they take vendor-neutral tech and then only teach the MS version of it
<noocsharp> i have to use discord for a class :<
<midfavila-laptop> my college makes me use discord >.>;
<midfavila-laptop> on a issued chromebook no less
<midfavila-laptop> i should have taken my grant and studied independently
<noocsharp> they let you do that?
<midfavila-laptop> in my case I was offered three choices
<midfavila-laptop> 1) apprentice as a lab assistant at a local lab
<midfavila-laptop> 2) study for four years independently
<midfavila-laptop> 3) attend post secondary education
<midfavila-laptop> i wanted the first, but then muh coof happened
<midfavila-laptop> and at that point I had less than a week to either apply and be accepted into a college or develop a four-year curriculum for myself
<dilyn> noocsharp: that seems self-evident
<midfavila-laptop> so for once in my life I took the advice of my elders and just went to college
<midfavila-laptop> and i've regretted it ever since
<midfavila-laptop> fucking millenials
<midfavila-laptop> smh
<noocsharp> so it goes
<midfavila-laptop> fortunately I was told that if I can't find a job out of college and spend the four months between this year's funding ending and the next beginning studying effectively, they'll fund independent study
<midfavila-laptop> and since literally nobody in my city is hiring unix administrators
<midfavila-laptop> kind of a lucky break I guess
<midfavila-laptop> ...well, except the military and a nuclear facility.
<rio6> aren't those kind of jobs usually remote?
<midfavila-laptop> some of it can be remote, but if you're administering a machine and a hard drive fails or what have you, it helps to be on-site
<noocsharp> that's what robots are for
<dilyn> that's what apprentices, assistants, and junior admins are for
<midfavila-laptop> i'm just fucking dreading the four-month placement I have to do as part of my coursework
<midfavila-laptop> they're probably going to dump me at a windows shop and I'm gonna look like even more of a dumbass than usual
<rio6> I had to use windows to code at my work, and after some time I found myself writing code using vim and mingw
<midfavila-laptop> i just hate how windows is a) slow as fuck and b) wants everything to be done in some special Windows Way:tm:
<midfavila-laptop> like, no, I'm not using your vendor-specific technology when standardized stuff works better and is easier to set up and use. fuck off redmond
<noocsharp> are all the packages considered implicit dependencies documented somewhere?
<midfavila-laptop> i would assume core/ is implicit
<midfavila-laptop> i'm *still* cleaning up after people who listed fuckin' curl or libressl as deps in their packages in my fork...
<noocsharp> libressl is not implicit
<noocsharp> nor is openssl
<midfavila-laptop> i don't particularly care about the current state of kiss. note when I said *my* fork. it was of an earlier set of KISS repos.
<noocsharp> well i was providing a counterexample to your assertion that core is implicit
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<testuser[m]> Hi
<dilyn> noocsharp: i've said it a few times, I had it written down somewhere
<dilyn> assumed dependencies are things like make, musl, binutils, gcc, busybox
<rio6> I really need a repology watcher script to notify me
<dilyn> toolchain things, basically. unless a specific toolchain thing is required (excluding make)
<dilyn> so for instance, if it REQUIRES llvm to build (mesa), specify. make is special because most everything requires make, at the very least everything else on that list requires make :)
<dilyn> busybox is a weird one because it is just a stand-in for "core unix utilities" so sbase/ubase/toybox/awk/sed/grep/etc are allowed to be assumed, UNLESS you require a specific implementation (gnu patch, bash)
<dilyn> rio6: i feel yah; i've basically orphaned almost all of my community packages
<dilyn> you could use cron to populate a list once a week
<dilyn> you can assume pigz because it only provides a gzip utility, but you can't assume bzip2 and xz because they provide libraries
<dilyn> (and zlib)
<rio6> does repology not take community repos? I forget if that was the reason why it was removed from it
<dilyn> grub can't be assumed (obviously), openssl because libcrypto can be provided by at least two things, linux-headers because it's only ever a make dep, bison/m4/flex because lexer et al aren't special (byacc vs bison, for instance); baseinit/baselayout aren't dependencies of anything (except a bootable system but... well...); curl is a dep of kiss;
<dilyn> git is just a stand-in for generic vcs
<dilyn> repology stopped tracking KISS repositories because of the change dylan made to the package format
<dilyn> it was never supposed to track community maintained repos, just official ones
<dilyn> (official in that it was maintained by dylan for KISS)
<rio6> such an inconvenience
<dilyn> lmao
<noocsharp> `kiss outdated` works still
<dilyn> ^
<noocsharp> btw thanks for the list dilyn
<dilyn> ofc
<noocsharp> im gonna see if its feasible to use landlock to do dependency checking
<dilyn> hmhm people don't get notified when I edit an issue and tag them in it, do they
<dilyn> testuser[m]: did you get a notification from github on this last edit?
<testuser[m]> Yeah
<dilyn> ah, cool cool cool
<testuser[m]> dilyn: how often does qtwebengine rebase
<dilyn> they rebase with every release but since qt5 is being maintained by kde and I don't think they're pushing point releases... I have no idea
<dilyn> it looks like they last rebased when chromium hit 90, so not often lmao
<dilyn> they apply CVEs and stuff
<testuser[m]> bruh
<dilyn> at least, alpine uses https://invent.kde.org/qt/qt/qtwebengine-chromium/-/tree/90-based, which is what i would consider the accurate approach
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<aws> Anyone here tried IRCv3 ?
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<dilyn> thanks!
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<testuser[m]> dilyn nss is giving me a checksum mismatch, downloaded 2 times
<testuser[m]> did you use b3sum again :p
<dilyn> god dammit
<dilyn> see and this is why i don't want to maintain community packages XD
<dilyn> i need a whole chroot environment so I don't miss everything smdh
<testuser[m]> bruh why is nss junk so huge
<dilyn> securidae
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<noocsharp> netsurf usable when
<testuser[m]> Bruh his prayer was instantly answered
<dilyn> :O :O :O
<dilyn> holy shit gimme
<dilyn> god i just can't get qemu to work ever
<dilyn> last time must've been a fluke
<dilyn> why didn't I save that build smdh
<acheam> i dont get why this is so desirable
<dilyn> because it's a nonchromium browser that isn't firefox on wayland
<acheam> how is netsurf better than links or lynx though?
<phoebos> better css support I'd imagine
<acheam> I sppose
<phoebos> but not really important for me
<dilyn> neither of those are graphical
<acheam> links -g
<phoebos> links
<dilyn> ...
<acheam> but yeah I know what you mean
<dilyn> what now
<acheam> its just not /that/ huge of a difference page layout wise
<acheam> will be fun to see its development
<testuser[m]> Does netsurf support videos
<acheam> no
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<claudia02> A new webbrowser, neat ^_^
<claudia02> Has someone already build it? Interested if it needs a toolkit.
<mps> illiliti: hi, I asked on #alpine-devel to build helper.c by default in libudev-zero package
<mps> but some people suggested that 'helper' name is to generic
<mps> too*
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<mps> I proposed name 'libudev-zero-helper'. what you think about this and do you plan to add its build in makefile (and move from contrib, maybe)
<dilyn> there's nothing that requires it to be named 'helper' on an installed system
<dilyn> just cc -o libudev-zero-helper contrib/helper.c; install -Dm755 libudev-zero-helper "$1/usr/bin/libudev-zero-helper"
<mps> dilyn: yes, I know. I can rename it ofc, but would be nice if we follow upstream name
<mps> and I thought to put it in /usr/libexec dir
<mps> someone proposed 'libudev-zero-send-uevent' name
<testuser[m]> Too verbose
<dilyn> lol
<rio6> I use linudev-zero-helper on my aur package
<rio6> s/lin-lib/
<mps> rio6: ah, good
<mps> we come to same name independently
<dilyn> "Assertion failure at SDL_GetWindowSize_REAL" >=|
<testuser[m]> Recompile with NDEBUG, assert dominance over the assertion
<dilyn> disable assertions kekw
<dilyn> "configure: error: *** unknown assertion level. stop." wtf sdl
<testuser[m]> Why would assertions be enabled in a release build of anything though
<testuser[m]> There's probably a valid issue here but still
<dilyn> there's definitely a valid issue
<noocsharp> bruh, you're telling me there are literal soydevs now?
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<micr0> dilyn re: blx - the tag() { add() {} } scoping is really neat there
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<illiliti> mps: that helper is provided because some device managers(except mdevd) cannot rebroadcast uevent natively
<illiliti> it's entirely optional and unrelated to libudev-zero, that's why i put it into contrib/
<illiliti> contrib/ shouldn't interact with build system. that's the point of contrib/
<mps> illiliti: yes, you told me this earlier, but some users (and I) wants it to use with busybox mdev
<mps> and this is not only package where packagers build things from contrib dirs in distros
<illiliti> package this helper as separate package
<mps> hmm, that was also proposed on #alpine-devel, but I'm not sure for now. maybe when we switch to libudev-zero from eudev
<mps> actually we can make it subpackage of libudev-zero
<illiliti> yeah, that's better
<illiliti> libudev-zero-helper
<mps> ok, thanks for idea and advice, will do that tomorrow
<illiliti> ok
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<dilyn> i don't like that kiss-chroot inherits host's CFLAGS
<dilyn> i have to keep resetting them every time i chroot because gcc doesn't support -flto=thin smh
<micr0> anyone using a gui fm they would recommend?
<micr0> preferrably wayland native and with thumbnails lol
<acheam> how much bloat?
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<acheam> wayaland native restricts you pretty much to gtk3/4 and qt5
<acheam> maybe the pcmanfm gtk3 port
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<micr0> hmm, i cannot remove anything linked against libwebp because I see a circular dependency between tiff and libwebp :/
<micr0> and KISS_FORCE=1 doesnt solve it
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<rio6> good thing kiss lets you edit package info with a text editor
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