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<Josh_2>
Mornin;
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<nij->
Any comparison between lparallel and cl-async?
<mfiano>
The former doesn't depend on third-party foreign libraries
<mfiano>
That's always my first checkmark anyway...
<nij->
Makes sense.
<nij->
I'm pretty new to multiprocessing so I'm very confused.
<mfiano>
the lparallel guides on the homepage make it pretty easy to understand without parallel computing experience.
<nij->
I imagine that while composing async calls, there should be a nice wrapper that transforms any sync-function to async-function.
<nij->
Something like (async-funcall #'+ (async-eval 1) (async-eval 2))
<mfiano>
I haven't messed much with the async/await pattern, but async does not necessarily mean it is using OS threads. I have no idea how libuv works (what cl-async depends on for concurrency).
<nij->
Why do we want to use OS threads? And does lparallel use them?
<mfiano>
You don't always want to. I was just stating there is a difference between concurrency and parallelism. lparallel does use them.
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<mfiano>
For those more familiar with async/await, couldn't you implement it with an event loop on a single background thread that just eats queued tasks?
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<mfiano>
I mean, it just has to be asynchronous with regard to the main thread, right?
<mfiano>
I have no idea. I don't do this type of programming much. Just slightly curious.
<nij->
lparallel is about ocncurrency or parallelism?
<mfiano>
it's in the name :)
<nij->
how about the async model? Is it concurrency or parallelism?
<nij->
(I hope my questions make sense..)
<mfiano>
I believe it isn't defined and could be either, but someone more familiar will have to answer I think.
<jackdaniel>
async/await can be likened to executing a thread; in this sense it is indeed agnostic to concurrent/parallel
<jackdaniel>
note that promises are very prominent for this style of programming, and that's also one of abstractions provided by lparallel
<mfiano>
I think async/await is just an abstraction on top of promises
<mfiano>
I mean, you immediately get a future, and wait until it is fulfilled. Seems like the same idea to me.
<White_Flame>
async/await is syntactic sugar for promises, not sure if that counts as a separate abstraction
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<mfiano>
the best kind, syntactic abstractions you have to wait for your language to provide ;)
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<nij->
but cl-async seems to have got rid of promises and futures..
<mfiano>
My advice: ignore cl-async (for now). It's not pure Lisp, and lparallel is one of the best free CL libraries we have. It's really incredible what it can do when you really dig into how it works.
<mfiano>
It also has great guides on its homepage, requiring no parallel programming experience.
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<nij->
Thanks! I am looking into lparallel's page :)
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<euouae>
Hello, in ASDF, I have a subsystem foo/deps that defines external dependencies and main system foo
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<euouae>
Now I want another subsystem that loads the external dependencies, performs an action, and then loads foo
<euouae>
but I can't figure out how to do this. I tried :depends-on (foo/deps) and :components ((:module foo)) but the latter doesn't seem to load foo
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<euouae>
hmm... I'll ask in asdf mailing list
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<jackdaniel>
did I miss the new quicklisp dist celebration :)
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<euouae>
Ah! I figured it out
<euouae>
I can add a dud :module with :depends-on in there
<euouae>
:D awesome
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<euouae>
ah sigh, that doesn't work either
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<euouae>
Hm, if I'm lucky, they're loaded serially.
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<dieggsy>
jackdaniel: I'll join the celebration heh
<jackdaniel>
:)
<dieggsy>
I've been wondering if there's a good way to support quicklisp development/infrastructure. it feels like one person carrying the bulk of the most popular common lisp package ecosystem
<dieggsy>
which I'm incredibly grateful for of course. just wonder how if we could all better share the load sometimes. or maybe my perception is incorrect
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<jackdaniel>
you'd have to ask xach whether he needs or wants help; I don't know. a few years back there was a successful fundraiser for quicklisp
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<Josh_2>
Occasionally the hints provided by the mini buffer stop working, is there a way I can fix this
<Josh_2>
I'm using sly+emacs.
<Josh_2>
I dont want to restart my image/emacs at this moment :(
<jackdaniel>
Josh_2: if you start a process that does not end in slime
<jackdaniel>
(say, a long running loop, by C-e over it)
<jackdaniel>
then slime until that thread is joined won't give you hints in the minibuffer
<jackdaniel>
the same applies to the repl, if it does not return - no hints
<jackdaniel>
that said if you wrap the code in (make-thread #'do-stuff), then nothing is blocked
<Josh_2>
hmm
<Josh_2>
I do not think I have started a thread like that
<Josh_2>
I will check
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<Josh_2>
I have also not started anything with C-e
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<jackdaniel>
C-c C-e I mean, or C-c C-k if you have some top-level form that /starts something/
<jackdaniel>
but sure, it may be something else, it's only that I can observe this behavior under these conditions
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<Josh_2>
Okay well thanks for your input
<Josh_2>
I'll just restart my image :shrug:
<Josh_2>
Well isn't that strange
<Josh_2>
Well I restarted and now the hints are back :facepalm:
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<Josh_2>
What is the name of the cl code parser/walker?
<Josh_2>
I dont remember specifically
<jackdaniel>
codewalker?
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<Josh_2>
well idk
<Josh_2>
I am not being much help
<jackdaniel>
try typing in a search engine "common lisp code walker"
<Josh_2>
I think I may be barking up the wrong tree
<Josh_2>
Thanks though
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<lagash>
There's quite a few codewalkers in CL.. I haven't gotten the chance to test a few out yet.
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<nij->
(equal (list 1 2 3) (list 1 3 3)) ;=> NIL
<nij->
How do I tell if equal cleverly stops at the 1st position?
<White_Flame>
there's no standard way to do so, also it breaks abstraction & design to make a mandate of how much work it can do to prove things
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<White_Flame>
also, there's no "cleverly" about it, there's no reason to check further elements once a mismatch has been found, and it's actually more work to write & execute code that would traverse the whole thing
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<Josh_2>
I think I've changed so much who knows what works anymore
<jackdaniel>
you may trivial-left-pad it if you want ;p
<euouae>
I'm going to add more stuff there
<nij->
pjb White_Flame I'm still confused.
<euouae>
But thanks for make-package! I was wondering if that's possible
<nij->
Do you mean that this could be implementation dependent?
<jackdaniel>
sure
<White_Flame>
yes
<White_Flame>
if it wants to be stupid, it could randomly compare offsets into the list until it attained full coverage
<nij->
And I can only tell it by reading the source, or to trace through #'equal step by step?
<White_Flame>
or time it, for very long lists with an early difference
<nij->
Got it. Thanks :)
<White_Flame>
vs 2 very long equal lists
<pjb>
nij-: if you want to compare only the first N elements of sequences, you can use mismatch, which returns the index of the first difference. Compare the result with N to know. (let ((r (mismatch a b))) (and r (<= 1 r)))
<pjb>
nij-: if only the first element, you can also do: (equal (first a) (first b)).
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<euouae>
jackdaniel: does make-package register the package?
<jackdaniel>
yes
<euouae>
Is it possible to create a package without registering it?
<jackdaniel>
no; we may get deeper down with explanation but I doubt that it will be useful
<euouae>
but running unit tests with generated random package objects, you wouldn't want that, would you?
<jackdaniel>
there is no point in creating a package that is not hooked into a reader et al, is there?
<euouae>
can't you perform the reader functionality using functions?
<jackdaniel>
I don't understand your question
<jackdaniel>
you may make a macro: (defmacro with-package (name &body body) `(let ((*package* (make-package ,name))) (unwind-protect (progn ,@body) (delete-package ,name))))
<euouae>
Maybe a different question would be, how can I undo the package creation?
<jackdaniel>
if you want to create a "temporary" package
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<jackdaniel>
see? I can read your mind
<euouae>
you are indeed powerful
<jackdaniel>
but now I need to leave the office, it's late
<jackdaniel>
good night
<euouae>
gn
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<Josh_2>
Good thing about lisp is that although I know everything is going to be broken :) When I try to run it I'll be able to interactively fix it all :joy:
<Josh_2>
making lemonade from lemons
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<phoe>
don't make lemonade
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<phoe>
ensure that a new flavor of lemonade is automatically made for you whenever any citrus metaclass is newly instantiated
<phoe>
this is truly the lisp way
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<aeth>
talking about lemons seems a bit too Java OOP for Lisp, doesn't it?
<phoe>
yeah, leaves kind of a sour taste
<White_Flame>
smells like lemonodor
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<Josh_2>
Well sometimes its nice to make lemonade by hand
<Josh_2>
just to enjoy the experience
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