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<phantomics>
Morning beach
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<splittist>
monring (as they say)
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<beach>
Hello splittist.
<mfiano>
At what time is the body of a DEFTYPE form expanded?
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<mfiano>
If I have (deftype working-space () `(member ,@+working-spaces+)) must the constant variable have been defined before this form is read?
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<mfiano>
Ignore that. I am awake enough to parse the HyperSpec section now.
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<kathe>
good morning everyone. :)
<minion>
kathe, memo from beach: Whether some other language (other than the one that is the topic of this channel) is "a lisp" or not is debatable, but such debates are off topic here, and are better conducted in the #lisp channel. There is no widely agreed-upon definition of "Lisp", so such debates are largely pointless.
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<kathe>
beach: got your memo. though there was *no* debate about "logo" being a lisp. or rather at least i wasn't a part of that debate.
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<kathe>
beach: though i do admit that i did mention that "logo" is a lisp.
<kathe>
btw, does anyone know if there's a low-cost or no-cost usenet service that's dependable enough for discussing common lisp?
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<phoe>
AFAIK there's none
<phoe>
comp.lang.lisp has died a horrible death
<kathe>
phoe: i heard there was a serial troll who caused the death!
<phoe>
he greatly contributed to it
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<moon-child>
phoe: _usenet_ has died a horrible death
<phoe>
moon-child: that too
* moon-child
still checks up on a few newsgroups occasionally
<ck_>
the spam is like the ink shroud of an octopus that only lets people with good kill-file skills through
<ck_>
unfortunately, I'm not in that category
<kathe>
strange that there was comp.lang.lisp but not comp.lang.commonlisp
<kathe>
why club all lisp systems together?
<phoe>
c.l.l was CL-related AFAIK
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<Cymew>
I wonder why there's so much spam on usenet, considering it's devoid of people there are almost none to profit from.
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<ck_>
the lack of centralised control is probably a lure
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<dieggsy>
With quicklisp configured for both SBCL and Allegro, after starting a REPL I can just do a (require :package) in SBCL but cannot in Allegro (need to do ql:quickload). Why might this be? is there something about SBCL that quicklisp is handling differently, or some implementation difference in the require paths?
<dieggsy>
(assuming it's downloaded/installed by quicklisp already, that is)
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<phoe>
REQUIRE is implementation-dependent
<phoe>
it's possible that SBCL has it configured to trigger ASDF, but Allegro doesn't
<phoe>
s/ASDF/ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM
<dlowe>
there's usually some mechanism to hook into REQUIRE
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<NotThatRPG>
dieggsy: Yes, SBCL's REQUIRE hooks into ASDF, but Allegro's does not. This is not caused by Quicklisp
<dieggsy>
phoe: oh, you're probabl yright
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<etimmons>
Which makes sense, since ASDF itself needs to be loaded first
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<utis>
i'm a little bit confused: i've been using slime-eval-buffer and just discovered slime-compile-and-load-file (C-c C-k), which seems to have about the same effect, except that some times the latter has unexpected effects (such as hanging) that are removed by slime-eval-buffer. is it guessable from this what's going on?
<Bike>
slime-compile-and-load-file will compile the file first, which can result in different effects in a few ways. hanging isn't usual, though.
<Bike>
what's the file you're seeing hanging on look like?
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<NotThatRPG>
@etimmons: I didn't realize that. And I'm not sure why ASDF sets up REQUIRE to use ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM on some implementations and not others. Just checked and this connection is absent on Allegro
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<Bike>
does allegro have something like *module-provider-functions*?
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<NotThatRPG>
Bike: Don't know. I will check.
<phoe>
can't see it after some brief APROPOSing
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<NotThatRPG>
This hook is something that Fare added a long time ago, and I don't fully understand the logic in the footer.
<Bike>
just cos, number one reason it would work on some implementations and not others is that there's not actually a standard way to accomplish this
<NotThatRPG>
Bike: For Allegro, one could hook require by using defadvice or their new, snazzy function wrappers. I will add an issue for this.
<etimmons>
NotThatRPG: Unrelated, but do you have any trick to make M-. work when developing ASDF? It's annoying that it goes to the concatenated asdf.lisp
<etimmons>
If not, I've got my own trick developed. I push :asdf-devel to _features_ and it skips the concatenation step, so M-. goes to the "true" source location
<etimmons>
Could open an MR if that sounds useful
<NotThatRPG>
etimmons: I have something I picked up from Fare...
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<akater[m]>
etimmons: Just load the relevant files instead of the concatenated one, no?
<etimmons>
Sure, but that requires me to already know which file the function I want to modify is located in
<jcowan>
c.l.s., at least when filtered by Google news, is fairly good. THere is one bozo, but it's easy to flip the bozo bit on him as soon as you see the title.
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<White_Flame>
hm, I tried to quickload GSLL and CFFI dies with "#include <ffi.h>" not finding the header. any ideas?
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<phoe>
White_Flame: `apt install libffi-dev`?
<White_Flame>
ah cool, thanks
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<etimmons>
NotThatRPG: Interesting!
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<dieggsy>
NotThatRPG: thanks for opening that issue
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<NotThatRPG>
dieggsy: NP; I am an Allegro fan myself.
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<etimmons>
Ugh. Just wasted several hours of my life tracking down a bug in someone's C++ code that turned out to be an uninitialized class variable. If it were written in CL I would have gotten a very nice unbound-slot error and had it fixed in no time.
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