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<mfiano>
I read Keene this week with not expecting much. But, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Her writing style sat very well with me, I actually unexpectedly learned a thing or two, and solidified my reasoning why I choose to do things a certain way without ever giving much thought to it.
<mfiano>
The example program ideas were somewhat poorly chosen, but it is a dated book. They did serve to illustrate the point though.
<mfiano>
I rate it quite high and would recommend it as a CLOS refresher, or introductory reference.
<edgar-rft>
CLOS was very young at that time, but it's a great book. I'm still using it to look-up details of basic things I have forgotten :-)
<mfiano>
My two cents, take it or leave it :)
<mfiano>
edgar-rft: Great, yeah I agree it is a good reference for that.
<beach>
I like her writing, but I was extremely put off by the example at the time I read it the first time.
<beach>
One example relies on processes (threads) which were not common at the time, and which are not part of the standard, so the example could not be tested on a standard implementation. Another example was about distributing software for different platforms, which was not my main preoccupation at the time.
<mfiano>
I wasn't that put off by them, as they were not full programs and not meant to be implemented. Infact, that particular example called out to a unspecified implementation/OS dependent function for its dirty work.
<mfiano>
They were simple examples to convey the topic at hand, not anything worth reproducing even if they could be.
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<mfiano>
I think the examples, while dated and not relevant today after standardization, go very well with her writing; explaining every detail, and often repeating important details multiple times. You are left with a clear picture of how the internal mechanisms of CLOS work, without needing to try anything for yourself.
<Guest74>
it's been a while, but I recall it seemed to be lacking in method combinations.
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<SR-71>
Did someone ever deploy hunchentoot in a live environment?
<flip214>
SR-71: not directly on the internet, only behind some proxies
<SR-71>
How was your experience?
<flip214>
200-300µsec per request per CPU, so more than fast enough for any real-world use, mostly stable after some configuration of quux-hunchentoot
<flip214>
"mostly" before config, afterwards all-okay
<beach>
I know very little about web stuff, but an image-based solution like Hunchentoot has got to be faster than what I understand some Unix-based solutions do, i.e. fork a process for each request. No?
<moon-child>
I don't think any modern unix-based implementation does that
<beach>
That's good I guess.
<flip214>
well, yeah, the old CGI fork-for-each-request stuff was much slower. then came FCGI which used a socket for communication to existing processes...
<moon-child>
and fastcgi is already more than 20 years old, I think
<moon-child>
ditto nginx (explicit eventloop vs apache prefork)
<SR-71>
flip214: How much load did you have on your server?
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<flip214>
SR-71: in real-use, not that much. during performance- and load-testing, a few hundred reqs/sec.
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<flip214>
per VM (4 cores), or per core, don't remember exactly
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<Guest49124124>
Hello all, I have a tree whose leafs are containing only strings and I would like to trim every string for example using STRING-TRIM. What would be a nice way of doing it? I managed to modify subst-if to fit my needs but I'm wondering if there's a better way.
<phoe>
Guest49124124: do you want to modify that tree destructively?
<Guest49124124>
When I run the example (walk-tree-atoms 'print '(a b (1 2 . 10) c)) only output I get is T while the lisptips page shows it has printed every atom. Have I maybe messed up some printing settings? I'm using SBCL with emacs slime
<Xach>
Guest49124124: that's weird. is there anything in the *inferior-lisp* buffer?
<Guest49124124>
Yea, some memory faults: CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 2027 tid 2038:
<Guest49124124>
Memory fault at 0x38ea62cd (pc=0x52d2a55e [code 0x52d2a2d0+0x28E ID 0x2bac], fp=0x7f32ad1435f0, sp=0x7f32ad1435e0) tid 2038
<Guest49124124>
The integrity of this image is possibly compromised.
<Guest49124124>
Continuing with fingers crossed."
<phoe>
goodness
<phoe>
tree-walking is not supposed to do things like that
<Guest49124124>
I got the same output as the web page when I ran SBCL in terminal
<Guest49124124>
But those might messages might have been there before. There did not come any new texts when I ran the code again.
<gjvc>
wow. never seen such messages before
<jackdaniel>
my sweet summer child..
<jackdaniel>
:)
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<mgl>
It's a pity that this "fingers crossed" message is alone in its lightheartedness in face of a possibly fatal error, now that "CATS. CATS ARE NICE." is no more.
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<jackdaniel>
I usually see it in safety 0 code or from ffi calls; in other words it would be hard to expect that the implementation knows what's going on
<jackdaniel>
with aver you can at least navigate to the place where the issue was signaled
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<jackdaniel>
either this or segfault and terminate the application /now/ ,)
<jackdaniel>
on the other hand I hate when sbcl drops the ball and puts me in ldb when it runs out of a heap
<jackdaniel>
(instead of signaling a storage condition backed by some preallocated "backup" memory)
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<beach>
I can't see a profound reason for having a fixed-size heap.
<phoe>
mgl: you can tell it to not continue
<phoe>
--lose-on-corruption is an SBCL option, you know
<mgl>
Yes, I've added that option :-).
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<jdz>
beach: Heap is always fixed size — be it the lisp image heap, RAM size, or total storage on the machine.
<jdz>
But yes, I would also love if SBCL running out of storage could be graciously recovered from.
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<jackdaniel>
well, assuming that the lisp image /can/ run out of storage at some point, then if we don't have set aside some memory then either reporting/handling the condition musn't try to allocate the memory or you try to allocate a memory you don't have anymore
<jackdaniel>
(and you can't invoke the restart 'INSTALL-MORE-RAM)
<phoe>
;; you gotta issue DOWNLOAD-MORE-RAM instead, there is a work in progress CDR for this
<beach>
jdz: I don't consider that a "fixed" size, but a "maximum" size. But if you prefer, I can put it like this instead: I can't see any profound reason for a Lisp system to need to be told a fixed size of its heap that is smaller than the maximum size possible.
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<jdz>
beach: What would you suggest be a better way to control that the heap does not grow out of control?
<jdz>
My position on this is that having such a limit is a feature, but instead of it being a hard limit it could be a soft limit (at least in case of SBCL).
<mfiano>
I see no reason for not specifying an incredibly large heap; one that would leave your system's other processes usable if it were to fill up. On my 128G machine, I specify 120. It's not like SBCL will make this all resident.
<jackdaniel>
160GB and swapping!
<jackdaniel>
128 would be a better number nerdness-wise
<lagash>
mgl: where's this "cats. cats are nice." joke/message from?
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<mgl>
In Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, Death says it.
<beach>
Fine.
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<semz>
mfiano: That wouldn't even start on systems without overcommitting (or with disabled overcommitting)
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<Guest74>
when using intern in a macro, is sane package where the macro is defined or where it is used?
<Guest74>
i guess that's a n sbcl thing, default package I mean.
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<White_Flame>
intern is executed when the macro is invoked, which is compile-time of the usage location
<White_Flame>
(assuming normal usage of intern executed in the defmacro body, not deferred in the returned list)
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<Guest74>
that's what I thought, just double checking.
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<random-nick>
technically, it's during macro-expansion time
<White_Flame>
yep
<Guest74>
welp, there's the question in my question.
<random-nick>
which isn't necessarily during compilation time if the implementation has an interpeter
<White_Flame>
but I thought that was a little tautological given the question :)
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<ecraven>
is anyone using cl-adams to manage remote hosts? does it work well?
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<dieggsy>
has atdoc not been updated for quite a while? are there more modern alternatives?
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<phoe>
staple, mgl-pax
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<edgar-rft>
you only need to worry when the last update was *before* 1994 :-)
<dieggsy>
lol
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<Guest74>
anybody have any examples of using sbcl's with-alien with a c-string?
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