ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i was thinking of buying an orange pi 4 LTS 3gb like this one https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004379409820.html for one of my projects, i saw that you guys support it and have a desktop image for it, would anyone be able to tell me how it performs? Does it have the dread desktop lag some weaker variants like the opi zero 2 have (where hovering over menus with your mouse has a significant delay, and poor overall
<Armbian-Discord>
graphcial experience) Also, i know that emmc storage is a LOT faster than using an sd card, but can introduces issues and you can more easily brick your device compared to a micro sd. Do you guys think it would eb worth it to get the emmc variant? (no emmc is 10 bucks cheaper)
<ArmbianHelper>
^ Orange Pi 4 Lts – carte de développement EMMC pour ordinateur, avec Wifi BT5.0, 3 go de RAM, 16 go de rom, fonctionne sous Android Ubuntu, Debian OS, carte de démonstration, RK3399 T | AliExpress
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> as long as you dont want to use that pcie for anythtinhg I believe they are ok
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> what's the issue with the pcie?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i guess it's that armbian doesn't support it?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> opi routed it wrong to the FPC
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> oh
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> ouch
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> so it's a hardware flaw? damn
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> so no OS on the planet can use it an acceptable speed
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> yep
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that's kind of... surprising, and at the same time not
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> well the schematic used a 2x connector like a header
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> they didn't even release a new hardware revision or anything to fix it?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> and the board uses a 1x FPC
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> so the differential pairs got split
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> what would even be the bandwith on such a mess...
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i was planning on using it for more usb 3.0 ports
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i guess that idea's a no go
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> someone made a custom flex ribbon that fixed the order before sending it over the cable
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> but they struggled with {CIe 1 transfers
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> PCIe
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i have no idea how that would even work
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> did they just rewire the mini pcie in a way that works using that cable?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> or is there an active chip on it
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> no, just routing ona custom flex PCB
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that's not too bad then, as long as you mind the traces's length
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> pcie is pretty hard to wire properly because of the frequencies involved
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> well right, and accept the fact you don't really know what happened on the PCB itself
<ArmbianHelper>
^ ROCKPro64 4GB Single Board Computer - PINE STORE
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> hmm yup, i WISHED so hard i could get this one
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> like... i'm drooling over this board
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> but
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> ah ok
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i live in france, and taxes hurt
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I've shipped things into the EU before. 😫
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i have never ordered something off of pine64 because they're US based
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> and having to file in import taxes is horrible and sometimes goes very bad
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> yeah
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> worst case scenario i'd have to pay 80 bucks for the board, 12 bucks for the delivery, 15 bucks for the handling fee, and around 14 bucks for the VAT tax
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> it's hell
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i don't actually know the price i'd pay in the end
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I had an easier time shipping electronics INTO China
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> china makes everything easy
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> too easy
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i can get my orange pi 4 in 10 days with free shipping
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> no taxes involved
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> as aliexpress takes care of everything and the prices are already upped for VAT
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> but if i coudl get my hands on a Rockpro64 or QUARTZ64 board, i would do so instantly
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> if all these weren't out of stock, i'd just get a raspberry and be done with it
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> but all the good boards are gone
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> The M4B takes the same hat
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> they cost reduced the M4V2, ironically it's more reliable IMHO
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> also this is still from the US
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> so VAt not included
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> among other things
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I couldn't remember of any of these wer on Ali or not
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> everything I've ever bought from FriendlyElec came from China
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> they had a US partener for local distro, "Industrial Armworks"
<retrosenator>
is this a virtual chat? am I real?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> is he real?
<retrosenator>
is there a bot that "links" servers or something odd?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Is anything real?
<archetech>
N2+ is the king
<retrosenator>
15:37 < Armbian-Discord> <Kanken> is he real?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> yes there is a bridge between a discord and the IRC
<retrosenator>
what is a discord?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> N2 doesn't have functional USB and no PCIe
<archetech>
I slam the usb3 all day so bs
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I tried to use it once and smoked it
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> and I'm not the only one
<archetech>
bad batch maybe
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> anyway that's irrleevant since it has no PCIe it doesn't fit
<archetech>
did he say pcie matters
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> yeah it came up when I pointed out the PCIe on that Opi board is useless
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> unless you want to build your own flex cable
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> actually the pcie only matters because i would like more usb 3.0 ports than what the opi offers by default
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> for later
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> which isn't that terrible if you have some PCB experience
<archetech>
well he said desktop too and nothing beats the G52 mp6
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> my PC does
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that's easy enough to deseign and order these days
<retrosenator>
what about NPU support?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> right, I design boards all the time, it's fun
<archetech>
lol pc does ya nut
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I do it less now since I won't ship them to EU due to tax problems 😦
<retrosenator>
its just VAT so what
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> what i'm trying to do here is connect a bunch of cameras to a 1920x1080 vr headset to turn it into a fully enclosed helmet that's able to see IR and thermal as fake colors superimposed on top of the main camera's footage
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> I was doing everything for fun at barely more than cost
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> most of my good cameras are usb 3.0
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> and gobble up a lot of bandwith
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> one board sent back to me makes the whole thing too expensive a game
<archetech>
n2 has 4 usb3 ports
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> proof of concept is working on my pc, using opencv and HIDAPI, but that's on a beefy x86 machine
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> you need to supply them power externally to the board or your rootfs will fail
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> unless you get lucky
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i've shrunk down its performance requirement as much as possible but my lil opi zero 2 doesn't have usb 3.0 so i can't use it
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> what is the bandwidth need per camera?
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> well i have two PS3 eye cameras with their IR filter removed
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> so that's a full 450 mbits per camera
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> since they're usb 2
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> and one ps4 camera for the main viewport
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> which is 3400x1200
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> this thing eats a usb 3.0 port like nothing else
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> the N2 has 1 USB port run through a hub
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that main camera absolutely needs a direct usb 3.0 port
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> that's why I ask
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> a hub won't work
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> the thermal camera has negligible bandwith
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> since it's low fps
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> ok, so you need something else for sure then, because while I'm sarcastic, an N2 might have worked if the bandwidth needs fit within 1 port total
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i was thinking about biting the bullet and getting a lattepanda
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> but these are expensive as heck
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> and i don't need that much raw powerr
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> right
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> khadas boards are also quite expensive and don't have nearly that much io
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> they are like "upscale" TV boxes. No offense meant, they just aren't for hardware hacking
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that's pretty much what most chinese SBCs are lol
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that or repurposed cellphone architectures (like the i96)
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> well in their case the format is even intended for media use
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> the i96 was so bad... 😄
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> RK3288 boards have a dedicated USB3 and some USB 2's
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> RK3328 *
<Armbian-Discord>
<NicoD> I'd go for a NanoPi M4. 2 x USB3 controllers. And PCIe.
<ArmbianHelper>
^ Rock Pi 4 Model B OP1 4GB/32GB (mit Dualband 2,4/5GHz WLAN/Bluetooth 5.0) mit UFL Anschluss | Rock Pi 4 A/B | Rock Pi/Radxa | Single Board Computer | Makerspace | Innet24
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> that's one way tos tart a house fire
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> had that happen to a PNY wifi dongle once
<Armbian-Discord>
<Kanken> i should have a thermocouple stuck to each one of these
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> eek
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> thats very not good
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> Lasagna called
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<Armbian-Discord>
<TheBug> What did you answer?
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<Armbian-Discord>
<MicroLinux (Salva)> I love micro sd cards
<Armbian-Discord>
<MicroLinux (Salva)> It's just that very few sbcs allow SDHC speeds by default.
<Armbian-Discord>
<MicroLinux (Salva)> I also tried to enable SDHC on zero 2(has te voltage regulator) but it doesn't work anymore if I try to use SDHC haha
<Armbian-Discord>
<MicroLinux (Salva)> Yeah, they aren't great for long tearm usage
<Armbian-Discord>
<MicroLinux (Salva)> But for tinkering, they are OK
<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> do you know about the ios file in /sys/?
<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> [root@system76:~]# cat /sys/kernel/debug/mmc0/ios clock: 208000000 Hz vdd: 21 (3.3 ~ 3.4 V) bus mode: 2 (push-pull) chip select: 0 (don't care) power mode: 2 (on) bus width: 2 (4 bits) timing spec: 6 (sd uhs SDR104) signal voltage: 1 (1.80 V) driver type: 0 (driver type B)
<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> [9941438.888118] mmc0: new ultra high speed SDR104 SDHC card at address aaaa [9941438.888530] mmcblk0: mmc0:aaaa SC16G 14.8 GiB
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<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> in my laptop, the above card claims to be running in an SDR 104mhz mode (but why is the clock listed as 208mhz?) but the same card in a pi400 claims to be DDR50mhz (isnt that pretty much the identical rate, just the clock pin is lower, ah, and then CMD is also slower)
<Armbian-Discord>
<ExplodedChicken> That vaguely reminds me of something running on a microcontroller with SPI, where the SPI speed usually maxes out at half the microcontroller clock speed.
<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> yeah, because the SPI needs 1 clock to generate a rising edge, and 1 clock for the falling edge
<Armbian-Discord>
<clever> happens in the PIO from the rp2040 as well, which can bit-bang damn near anything, even hdmi!
<Armbian-Discord>
<ExplodedChicken> I don't have one of those yet.
<Armbian-Discord>
<ExplodedChicken> Unfortunately, I have bins filled with potential maker-gear, yet had no ability to set up a workspace due to life chaos and small children underfoot.
<Armbian-Discord>
<ExplodedChicken> so theoretical knowledge of reading a few data sheets.
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> ah yes, DVI via RP2040
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tonymac32> uses about 50% of the tiny thing to do it, honestly it's astonishing given the utter lack of useful peripherals on there. Or maybe that's why it can do it, nothing to get in the way of pure "everything is a hammer" 1975 programming