ArmbianHelper changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | | Github: | Commits: #armbian-commits | Developer talk: #armbian-devel | Forum/Twitter feed: #armbian-rss | Logs: ->
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<lanefu> TRS-80: !
<TRS-80> Ahoy!
* TRS-80 just got new PinePhone working, PineBookPro should be here in days
<TRS-80> lanefu: it's all your fault
<lanefu> yeah at least its the good kind of my fault
<lanefu> i'll take the blame
<TRS-80> :)
<TRS-80> been waiting a long time for that PBP, man, I'm excited
<lanefu> do you want me to build any sort of specific image for your PBP? like debian sid ?
<TRS-80> I feel it's high time I use the build tool myself. Or you mean add one to the build train?
<lanefu> i was just gonna kick off a job on my big iron
* TRS-80 looks over at 32 core 32 GB RAM monster
<lanefu> aye you got some of your own!
<TRS-80> fully in freedom, no less
<lanefu> yeah man time to learn the tool
<lanefu> you're gonna get mad tho
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Libreboot – ASUS KGPE-D16 server/workstation board
<lanefu> cuz ubuntu
<lanefu> the docker method may be sufficient tho
<lanefu> that IS pretty dope to have libreboot!
* TRS-80 does not run any x86 with IME nor AMD's equivalent
<TRS-80> So it's that one and some old ThinkPads, which are getting a bit long in the tooth. Been looking forward to BPB for a long time as a possible replacement for the latter.
<TRS-80> *PBP
<lanefu> actually ill fire up some desktop builds on the phytium woot woot
<TRS-80> yeah PINE64 finally have done another production run, in case you did not hear yet
<lanefu> yeah i did catch that news. glad they found a panel supplier
<TRS-80> PinePhone has been quite a joy to use with SXMO, and keyboard. Imagine like a little GNU/Linux PDA with physical keyboard which just happens to have a mobile phone and data connection capability. :)
<TRS-80> I edit my text messages in Emacs, it's awesome! lol
<lanefu> lol
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<lanefu> nothing like watching armbian almost build on a saturday night
<TRS-80> lol
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ahoy
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> lanefu what's the matter?
<ArmbianHelper> ^ 2022-08 Request for Testing and Feedback: Ubuntu 22.04 Desktop and Server - General - Libre Computer Hub
<lanefu> ah just random surprises building PBP edge from phyitium
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ah ok
<lanefu> i just decide to provison an 80 core ampere altra for the hell of it
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> doing weird shit (TM)
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> lol
<ArmbianHelper> ^ [image/png] (62.3KiB)
<TRS-80> good grief
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ok Charlie Brown
<TRS-80> lanefu: If you are still offering to build something while you are playing around, I'd take a Debian Stable XFCE build for PBP to test...
<Armbian-Discord> <l​anefu> roger.... i think those are probably already produced tho on the nightlies but id have to check
<TRS-80> I haven't looked in a while, I suppse I probably should first, lol
<TRS-80> There is a plain Bullseye, without a desktop, but it looks to me like all the pre-build desktops are Sid. This on download page. Should I be looking somewhere else?
* TRS-80 thinks that maybe graphcs in arm might actually be better under Sid
<ArmbianHelper> ^ [image/png] (167.4KiB)
<TRS-80> OO
<TRS-80> my e-peen so inadequate now
<Armbian-Discord> <T​onymac32> ha
<TRS-80> I think I found nightlies: Anywhere else?
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Releases · armbian/build · GitHub
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<TRS-80> because I don't see ant PBP there
<TRS-80> any
* TRS-80 also finally pulled the trigger on the nice Time-Sert thread repair kit for 2v 5.4
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<lanefu> sounds like something you'd have to do on a ford
<lanefu> yeah the time-sert kits are super nice from what ive seen
<lanefu> not cheap, but cheaper than a new head
<TRS-80> I been researching and agonizing over it for years, finally decided to spend the money.
<TRS-80> What with cost of trucks these days, I been fixing up the old one. I figure I'll still be far ahead if it all works out. lol
<TRS-80> Reading, this actually sounds quite easy.
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Error retrieving title. Check the log for more details.
<TRS-80> I can choose docker in curses UI?
<TRS-80> I guess, one way to find out... :D
<TRS-80> Aha! More nightlies here:
<ArmbianHelper> (REDIRECT) ^
<TRS-80> pays to RTFM, who knew
<TRS-80> nope, nothing there for PBP
<lanefu> nope its a build argument
<lanefu> and one i never use......
<TRS-80> well you are probably running Ubuntu I guess, I am running Debian here
<TRS-80> or just spinning up runners / using infrastructure I guess
<lanefu> yes and yes
<lanefu> currently dying on his 80 core ampere box cuz slooow checjout of uboot from germant `eceiving objects: 87% (56850/65344), 31.17 MiB | 147.00 KiB/s`
<lanefu> *phew* past that
<TRS-80> why does not build script default to a shallow clone?
<lanefu> it does for more stuff these days
<TRS-80> How long do you think a Docker build of Bullseye with XFCE takes?
<TRS-80> roughly
<TRS-80> 32 cores, 64GB RAM machine
<TRS-80> I guess I just kick it off and see, for science...
<lanefu> first run.. at least an hour
<lanefu> maybe 2
<TRS-80> oh ok, so I shouldn't need to let it go all night then
<lanefu> alright here ya go... 118 load average doing native arm kernel build
<ArmbianHelper> ^ [image/png] (1.0MiB)
<TRS-80> > space heater
<TRS-80> maybe less so on ARM, acktchually
<TRS-80> bash ssh bash ssh weechat bash ssh ssh bash ... lol
<lanefu> its doing the rootfs in chroot for the desktop on x86 that TAKES FOREVER
* TRS-80 goes to pull updates to build repo
<TRS-80> Where is info about building desktops?
<lanefu> L O L
<lanefu> should be an option from the TUI
<lanefu> after you say 'build full image"
<TRS-80> Yes but I can't get there if doing docker, amirite?
<TRS-80> So far I have:
<ArmbianHelper> ^ View paste 3BVA
<TRS-80> but I guess I need to also specify a desktop somehow
<lanefu> oh
<TRS-80> Can I do stable (Bullseye) or will that not work with desktop stuff currently?
<TRS-80> my dotfiles are based on Debian Stable on all other machines
<TRS-80> including now phone, which is nice :)
<lanefu> yeah try it
<TRS-80> oh wait, phone is actually Alpine based
<lanefu> eww
<TRS-80> I know. But PostMarketOS is Alpine based, which actually makes sense for a lot of the limited resource devices they support.
<TRS-80> and I am enjoying SXMO a lot more than Mobian, which is basically phosh (Gnome shell) stupidity
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Sxmo: Simple X Mobile
<TRS-80> I need to use edge branch for desktops, I presume?
<lanefu> edge kernel.... would recommend yes
<TRS-80> yeah figured
<TRS-80> LIB_TAG=desktop is outdated (read that here:
<ArmbianHelper> ^ 2021: Year of the Armbian Desktop! - Announcements - Armbian Community Forums
<lanefu> LIB_TAG is the devil
<TRS-80> OK, now I have (and possibly need to remove last line I guesS)
<ArmbianHelper> ^ View paste XWPA
<TRS-80> so that's no longer needed I take it? lol
* TRS-80 waits for confirmation before pushing button
<lanefu> yeah remove that LIB_TAG argument
<TRS-80> ok, looks good otherwise?
<lanefu> ready, fire, aim
* TRS-80 hands his beer to lanefu
* lanefu holds empty can
<TRS-80> I am guessing all these packages are going into the container? Too much stuff flying by to follow really. lol
<lanefu> well container should be also be mounting contents of some of your working directory there
<lanefu> like the cache folder and output folder
<TRS-80> OK I think the actual build script is starting now. Neat. Never did this before (for shame!).
* TRS-80 figures the occasion warrants a freshie
<TRS-80> this is pretty cool, I must say
* TRS-80 will be astounded if it all actually works
<lanefu> i believe in your ability to press enter
<TRS-80> yeah compiling stuff is like... I only think I succeed maybe half the time. And that's on a single program. This is just...
<TRS-80> OK, I'm going to let this simmer, going to bed. Thanks for the pointers lanefu!
<lanefu> Have a good one
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<schwar3kat> vpeter: montjoie: I​gorPec: May be of interest gigabit ethernet SD emulator . Github exists, although linked item does not. I don't know enough about FPGA to evaluate though. Ethernet switch instead of a mux?
<ArmbianHelper> ^ sd card emulation |
<vpeter> Looks unfinished job to me.
<vpeter> What is wrong using real sd card and mux chips?
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<vpeter> I see "LiteSDCard" mentioned with Google a lot. Maybe it works after all :)
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<vpeter> Same applies for USB mux for muxing USB devices. Just now I'm modifying manual one to be controllable from computer.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> morning.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> i am also putting together USB testing box
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> like one SBC with 2 x 16 usb ports running usb server
<clever> schwar3kat: ive thought about SD emulation before, i would want some kind of service where i can just ./foo bar.img, and then something reading the "SD" card would see bar.img
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> not completely in this context, but another test tool
<clever> in the ideas ive thought of, you would need to relay reads from the fpga->host, read the actual file, then relay the reply back
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Ohhhhhh so far TowBoot + Arbian is the absolute best onboarding experience!Promising. Let’s see if it stays like that - Mike Kelly (@mikecodemonkey) August 13, 2022
<clever> vpeter: an SD mux has the overhead of having to flash the new bar.img to the card between each test, and wearing the card out, which you will eventually have to replace
<clever> vpeter: while an SD emulator instead has a latency on each read, but can instantly launch a new .img, and will never wear out
<vpeter> But is there device I can buy or make? Looks like not...
<vpeter> For me the main point of having sd mux is for remote work.
<clever> vpeter: the hackaday link claims to be an emulator that was completed, but they forgot to include board files and code i think?
<clever> vpeter: for some boards (rpi stuff), you can configure it to boot from another source that is unbrickable, even if the SD card has data, so the pi itself can be used to re-flash the SD card
<clever> no mux needed
<clever> pi0, pi02, the CM's, pi4, and pi400 can all do that
<vpeter> But this is just rpi and not general solution. I don't own any rpi :)
<clever> just a usb cable between the soc and another host, and something to drive gpio conditionally
<clever> yeah, thats where an emulator would help
<vpeter> Isn't this fpga sd core just a core to be included in some other designs replacing real sd card?
<ArmbianHelper> ^ Linux-on-LiteX-VexRiscv just got a bit of love, you can now run the it on an OrangeCrab-25F with VexRiscv-SMP (1 core) + direct LiteDRAM interface + LiteSDCard (SD mode) + Linux images on the SDCard. Time to give it another try!Prebuilt bitstream/images: - Enjoy Digital (@enjoy_digital) March 22, 2022
<clever> vpeter: from the keyword soup, i think that fpga is acting as a controller bridging the SD protocol and a dram chip?
<clever> so you flash your image to the dram, not actual flash
<clever> nothing to wear out, but it still needs a download step
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<clever> and depending on how far they went, it will either have a "back door" like usb access to the same storage
<clever> or it needs an sd mux to expose it to a 2nd host?
<clever> i can see how you might even do a dual-ported SD + MSD device
<clever> one side fits into an SD socket, the other end claims to be a standard usb stick, store everything to ram
<clever> but your limited by how much ram you install
<vpeter> But ram is costly? And sd card is cheap even if wear out.
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<aasami_> Db Bullsexe + HDE + todays update and upgrade killed not X but only plasma stupid thingies so omly konsoles work. Going on uo find out why- Maybe reoot is necessary soon
<clever> vpeter: 1gigbyte of dram, $19 in singles, $14 each in bulk
<clever> vpeter: yeah, that is kinda expensive, compared to a generic SD card
<clever> vpeter: its looking like a ram-less converter would be better, something that you tether to a host over usb, and then it goes thru custom software to just read a regular file on the host pc
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<aasami_> Db bullseye + KDE with X. Pointer is shown because of startx but plasma is dead?
<vpeter> clever: Well, for one device which works fast this is feasible. But didn't igor wrote he needs 40 adapters :)
<aasami_> Can't leave KDE, no VT, no keyboard ------------- armbian-bullseye-desktop-kde-plasma is lost?
<aasami_> KDF-plasma-desktop is still present !!!
<aasami_> As I installed HDE-standard I am surprised it is corruptes by apt-get update?
<clever> vpeter: an fpga can be programmed to emulate 4 or possibly more SD cards at once, and then you could just route them all thru the same usb2 port, and maybe throw in a dram cache and limited overlay support
<vpeter> I think this become a dream device what we want :-)
<clever> vpeter: there is also the option of a pcie attached fpga, either as the host end to talk to a dozen slave fpga's, or directly emulate an SD card
<clever> or go gigabit and iscsi, lol
<clever> imagine an SD card that routes to an iscsi target over gigabit
<vpeter> I think this would be for some high end development. Some cheap usb sd mux device is way more useful. I was in talk with Kingston to make one. But after few emails they went quiet :(
<clever> do you know verilog?
<vpeter> I did one project back in 1999 :) Few years later I saw same functionality done as generic IC :-)
<clever> the 2 main tips i have, is to look into iverilog and gtkwave
<clever> with those, you can simulate verilog on any linux pc, and view the results
<clever> then run thru
<ArmbianHelper> ^ - where FPGAs are fun
<clever> it has a very basic SD HOST example
<ArmbianHelper> ^ - SD card
<clever> and links to more sources
<clever> vpeter: for gigabit ethernet, you have 2 options, GMII and RGMII
<clever> GMII is an 8bit bus in each direction, and a 125mhz clock in each direction, plus some misc control signals
<clever> so 125 million times per second, you send 8 parallel bits out
<clever> 125*8 == 1000 mbit
<clever> then you just send the raw preamble, and raw ethernet packet out
<clever> for rx, i think the 125mhz clock is recovered from the cat5 (based on the far end), and the 8bit rx bus is synced to that 2nd 125mhz clock
<clever> RGMII is a variant with a 4bit bus, in DDR mode, so it moves data on both the rising and falling edge of the 125mhz clock
<clever> in either case, a PHY converts that parallel signal into the mess that is true gigabit ethernet
<aasami_> IgorPec: Well, problem: I did install KDE-standard not knowing that updating kills it. Ut seems to be purged by armian.bullseye-swkrop-KDE-plasma
<aasami_> IgorPec: Well, problem: I did install KDE-standard not knowing that updating kills it. Ut seems to be purged by armian-bullseye-desktop-KDE-plasma, bur why?
<aasami_> IgorPec: Well, problem: I did install KDE-standard not knowing that updating kills it. It seems to be purged by armian-bullseye-desktop-KDE-plasma, but why?
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<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> sorry, no idea
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> those upgrades updates of desktops is not well tested
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<aasami_> Armbian-Discord: If kde-standard is installed but nit via armbian this effect may pop ip. So just controll kde-standard and install it again.
<aasami_> Armbian-Discord: Thanks and ciao
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