sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
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<muurkha> zBeeble: what said your filesystem needed to change was Bard, not GPT-4, which correctly explained that SV49 was mostly a hardware and kernel issue; see the link I posted, not the bullshit posted earlier
<muurkha> ChatGPT was possibly not involved
<muurkha> the incorrect Bard answer, in particularm was not from ChatGPT
<muurkha> it's true that pointer tagging, like virtual memory, is pretty architecture-dependent. it's also true that it's a huge performance boost for dynamically-typed languages and ML
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<muurkha> typically the standard ABI guarantees pointer alignment, which (as dh` pointed out) lets you use low bits for pointer tags, which is by far the most common way to do it
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<muurkha> (also of course if your runtime allocates the pointers it can control their alignment)
<muurkha> as dh` also said
<muurkha> dh`: you could use the high 8 bits for tags on 68k at first IIRC? and maybe armv1?
<muurkha> also I think on S/360
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<courmisch> dh`: if you store everything as (u)intptr_t, it's supposed to work indeed, but IME people "recklessly" cast back to a pointer type. Fortunately, with void * or char *, it should just work.
<courmisch> dh`: but I've seen GCC do really weird thing when giving it unaligned pointer values (as in less aligned than the pointed-to-type requiers)
<courmisch> (and GCC had every right to screw that up since it's undefined)
<courmisch> but well, I agree that if done correctly, it can work
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<dh`> muurkha: sufficiently old m68k yeah, but like with current 64-bit stuff it would have broken rapidly
<dh`> armv1 idk
<dh`> courmisch: yeah there are lots of things you definitely can't do :-)
<muurkha> well, 'rapidly' is a matter of perspective
<dh`> iirc it broke by the time the 68020 appeared and that was less than five years from the point anyone would have bothered doing such stuff on m68k
<dh`> world changed much faster back then
<muurkha> I think it was actually the '30
<dh`> idk
<muurkha> but sure, five years
<dh`> may have varied, also, there were a lot of custom m68k mmus
<muurkha> but last time I worked at a startup, five years was an incomprehensibly long time
<muurkha> three months was a long time
<muurkha> there were a *lot* of companies with ads in computer magazines in 01979 that didn't exist in 01984
<muurkha> and of course '020 sales didn't drop to zero instantly
<muurkha> sun3x in 01989 was Sun's first '030 machine
<muurkha> so of the things that might kill your Smalltalk or Lisp company that started in 01982 or 01983, Motorola shipping a chip with a more than 24-bit address bus was pretty far down the list
<dh`> wikipedia thinks it's the 020
<dh`> (don't have the energy to look anywhere more authoritative right now)
<muurkha> oh, you're right, I was confused
<dh`> timeline for apple seems to have been late 1984 (original mac) to early 1987 (mac II)
<dh`> which is a bit over two years
<muurkha> yeah, apple lisps got boned
<dh`> which, yes, is enough time for a lisp startup to get itself in trouble
<muurkha> and hopefully get enough of a revenue stream to hire more hackers to get it out
<dh`> but barely enough time to turn around in from a system design point of view
<muurkha> yeah
<muurkha> otoh the mac II was predictable by 01985
<dh`> significantly less time than march 2020 to now
<muurkha> heh
<dh`> apple enjoyed being unpredictable even back then
<muurkha> yeah, I sure have a lot of system designs I haven't turned around since then
<muurkha> well, I mean, they could have canceled the Mac
<muurkha> but they obviously weren't going to stick with obsolete CPUs forever
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<dh`> I guess it's other aspects of the mac II that were less predictable (color, different size screen, etc.)
<muurkha> oh, sure
<muurkha> 1-bit GUIs are a visually interesting design space
<dh`> I guess, it's one I'd just as soon never visit again
<muurkha> well, I've written sonnets and a 64-byte demo, so I have a taste for restrictions breeding creativity
<muurkha> also though I have some 0.1-megapixel 1-bit displays that run on 50 μW
<dh`> sure, just some restrictions aren't fertile and this has always seemed like one
<muurkha> great contrast, super permissive timing requirements, 60fps, reasonably low latency
<muurkha> but 1 bit deep
<muurkha> two wire serial interface
<muurkha> I think I can get 10 DMIPS and 0.2 megapixels on a milliwatt
<dh`> 0.2 megapixels isn't a useful measurement
<dh`> 400x500?
<geertu> 640x312?
<dh`> 512x342?
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<bjdooks> grr, ubifs
<bjdooks> well, uboot's ubifs
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<bjdooks> conchuod: you got any more of those ubifs patches for uboot?
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<conchuod> Oh crap, I forgot about that
<Tenkawa> whats up with ubifs?
<bjdooks> conchuod: i've sent the 3 to get the ubi/ubifs building, but just found that little lovely in ubifsload
<bjdooks> using u32 for a load address isn't going to cut it with 64bit systems
<conchuod> bjdooks: afaict, we just made changes to local_save_flags() & Co and made the additions to bitops.h
<conchuod> I actually put it in my todo list this time to look at your series, I'll do so tomorrow probably.
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<muurkha> dh`: 400x240
<muurkha> in each of two 61-mm-diagonal screens
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<fowl> ubuntu now supports the visionfive2, what other distros are available for this SBC?
<pedja> afaict, opensuse tumbleweed has an experimental image for it (https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:VisionFive2)
<unsigned> are there any "benchmarks" for the VF2 SBC? not just numbers, compile times, basic browsing, etc
<courmisch> fowl: what does it even actually mean? they've integrated the proprietary display drivers somehow?
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<conchuod> NishanthMenon: this might be of interest to you https://lore.kernel.org/20230510162406.1955-1-jszhang@kernel.org
<NishanthMenon> conchuod: thanks.
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<drewfustini> I am booting 6.4-rc1 on an RV64GC system and I hit this during boot: Oops - store (or AMO) access fault [#1] https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/AKK2sOZV/
<drewfustini> I've not seen something like that before... anyone have ideas how to debug?
<drewfustini> Maybe just bisect?
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<dh`> uh, first step is to check where it's faulting...
<drewfustini> I'll turn on DWARF so I can get better stack trace
<drewfustini> hopefully that will make it easier to understand what is at badaddr: ffffaf8000000000
<muurkha> that looks like Linux
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<somlo> just a rando data point, I had something like that happen when opensbi, the DTB, and the kernel were getting overlapped in RAM during early boot
<somlo> the booting kernel was executing garbage opcodes because opensbi placed the dtb on top of some of its opcodes...
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<conchuod> drewfustini: is the system sv48 by any chance?
<drewfustini> Yes it is
<conchuod> ffffaf8000000000 is an interesting address in that case
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<drewfustini> Ah, the direct map. Thanks
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