aerkiaga has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<dh`>
if you have a nommu chip and you want to run a mmu OS, qemu is the wrong way to go about it unless you have a lot more hardware budget than available developer attention
<dh`>
for one thing, almost everything can easily be patched to use posix_spawn
<dh`>
sh is likely an exception, but unless you have a lot of existing shell scripts you're committed to being able to run (seems unlikely for a small device) ... just write a different shell
<muurkha>
it's going to be hard to compile much on the machine without a mostly compatible sh
<jrtc27>
I'm sure you can write a POSIX shell implementation without fork
<dh`>
you can, it's even allowed for in the standard, it's just that owing to circumstances in the language I don't think any of the existing implementations are built that way or are easily adapted
<dh`>
anyway, why would you compile on the machine? for a small device there's no real reason to
<dh`>
unless you're talking OLPC-like small device that's really trying to be a general-purpose computer
<dh`>
but that's a whole different game, and since today to be useful to anyone except a small number of aging oldtimer nerds you need to host a browser, probably one that will be 64-bit
shicz2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<dh`>
anyway also, emulating an mmu is Expensive and while qemu would let you do that, it'll almost certainly be too heavy for a processor that left off the mmu to save weight
shicz2 has joined #riscv
<dh`>
(and on top of all that, unix is the wrong os architecture for a nommu system)
Narrat has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.]
<muurkha>
yeah, I want a small general-purpose computer, and I think a browser is feasible
<muurkha>
tho not one that will run Slack ;)
<dh`>
unfortunately there isn't an off-the-shelf open source amigaos clone you can run on your nommu laptop
<dh`>
(there are a lot of halfassed amigaos clones but none I know of are actually particularly operable)
<muurkha>
yeah
<dh`>
this could be fixed if anyone wanted one enough to put up some money
jacklsw has joined #riscv
<dh`>
but it's never been particularly compelling
<muurkha>
it's unlikely to be profitable
<dh`>
it doesn't have to be profitable, just get started and then generate enough momentum to keep going
<sorear>
why would you have a nommu laptop? are you building it yourself out of relays?
<muurkha>
no, Ambiq chips, or other low-power microcontrollers (though those are a lot more hassle)
<dh`>
"OLPC-like small device that's really trying to be a general-purpose computer"
<muurkha>
if someone is going to put up some money, they probably need to be expecting a return
<muurkha>
don't they?
<muurkha>
I mean there are a few tech charities out there like Benetech and Tor
<dh`>
what was the last time you expected a profit from a whizbang hardware kickstarter?
<muurkha>
well, I've never done one
<dh`>
people will put some amount of money down just to get a neat gadget out
<muurkha>
but I think the people who run them do generally expect to make a profit from them, using KS essentially for preorders
<sorear>
i would consider anyone who makes a full-size laptop but can't spare 2000 gates for a mmu incompetent until proven otherwise
<dh`>
heh
<muurkha>
sorear: yes, of course, if you're designing custom silicon
<muurkha>
but you can't add an external MMU to a SoC with on-chip RAM
<muurkha>
an existing SoC, I mean, not one you're having made
<dh`>
anyway my suspicion is that there is actually a market slot for a purpose-built nommu OS that is in between things like freertos on the one hand and bsd/linux on the other
<dh`>
not one you could live on, but enough to support a community and a few otherwise insane volunteer hackers :-)
<muurkha>
that'd be interesting. is anyone doing kickstarters or patreons for free software development?
<dh`>
not much AFAIK, software's too damned expensive and too hard to produce a flashy result in a reasonable timeframe