<heat>
one thing i don't understand is how GKI is supposed to loads its modules at really early boot
<geist>
maybe the bootloader does it
<heat>
yeah maybe
<nortti>
< zid> every european language except hungarian and finnish ← even if we're only sticking to languages that are the national language of an european state, this list is missing at least estonian (uralic), turkish (turkic), and maltese (semitic)
<zid>
I'll accept estonian, which is just finnland's cousin
<zid>
finland
<zid>
turkey is in asia
<zid>
malta.. is too small to care about :P
<nortti>
so what's your reason for excluding basque?
<geist>
this is why i'm wise enough to not make statements like that
<zid>
The spanish government has material on me
<nikolar>
Turkey isn't a European country
<nortti>
oh! and georgian (kartvelian)
<Ermine>
Oh, gki
<nortti>
nikolar: what's your definition of a european country?
<nikolar>
Not turkey :P
<Ermine>
I guess they've put some work to make vendors upgrade their stuff
<zid>
Also not turkey
<nortti>
my favourite european country is tuvalu
<zid>
My favourite european country is jamaica
<Ermine>
> KMI
<Ermine>
So they made stable kernel apis/abis?
<geist>
that's the idea
<nortti>
per android release, afaiu
<geist>
i thik the idea is the drivers talk to the GKI interface, and the GKI module/kernel code/etc provides an abstraction of the moving parts of the kernel
<nortti>
zid: nikolar: out of interest, is russia an european country? why/why not
<Ermine>
someone gotta show that to gregkh
<geist>
gregkh works at google
<Ermine>
lmao
<geist>
hmm, maybe? catually maybe not
<nortti>
does gregkh have something specifically to do with kernel ABI?
<geist>
but really, i guess you could argue its a win for everyone
<geist>
but anyway even if he works at google doesn't mean they'r eon the same page. but then dunno
<Ermine>
nortti: he argues against stable in-kernel apis and abis
<netbsduser>
they don't believe in those in linux land
<nortti>
Ermine: right, but is he any more specifically involved with that than any other big kernel dev?
<Ermine>
nortti: i don't know, but the page on apis/abis is written by him
<Ermine>
Also he's the biggest dev after Linus
<nortti>
ah
<Ermine>
page in kernel docs*
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<mjg>
Marcus Optimus
<zid>
eu4 is either real crashy, or that voltage change I just did was bad
<gog>
et tu mateusz
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<mjg>
you are dead naming me
<mjg>
it's mateuszus
<Ermine>
mateuzsus
<gog>
sorry
<zid>
prime95 passes..
<zid>
maybe eu4 is just crashy rn?
<mjg>
gog: it is forgiven
<Ermine>
mateuz sus
<gog>
anyhow thanks for stabbing me to death
<mjg>
hey, i could have thrown you to the lions
<gog>
aww big kitties
<mjg>
no pitbulls in the roman empire :(
<Ermine>
mjg: what's wrong with pitbulls?
<mjg>
nothin, they would do great in the colosseum
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<heat>
geist, i think gregkh was contracted by google for a while
<heat>
but he works at the linux foundation i think
<zid>
okay it's definitely an eu4 issue, if I click this button after reloading it just crashes
<geist>
ah maybe thats it. he lives near me, i’ve actually seen him around
<nikolar>
What button is that zid
<mjg>
luller
<zid>
some estates popup
<heat>
also biggest dev after linus is a hot take kinda
<heat>
i'd say andrew morton is ahead of him in the chain
<heat>
but greg kh is nice
<zid>
greg kh is pretyt beeeg
<zid>
didn't he like, maintain the x86 tree or something kinda important
<heat>
no, he maintains the drivers subsystem, the tty subsystem, and -stable
<zid>
oh, right, stable and all drivrs
<heat>
which is big, don't get me wrong
<zid>
tiny guy
<heat>
but andrew morton literally has all of mm and everything that doesn't fall in a MAINTAINERS entry IIRC
<zid>
crumbboy
<heat>
in any case, talking about our favourite linux devs is CRINGE and NERDY
<geist>
indeed. i was gonna say
<heat>
i stan bryan cantrill at best
<zid>
You only think it's cringe because your favourite is con
<zid>
kon? mr. cauliflower
<heat>
who
<geist>
are you sitting onyour bed lookin at all the linux maintainer posters around your wall?
<geist>
swoon!
<zid>
con kolivas
<heat>
geist, wdym you don't have a shirtless ted t'so poster
<geist>
haha
<zid>
ooh ted t'so is a good one
<geist>
ted tso said a mean thing to me like 25 years ago
<geist>
and i’ll never forget it
<zid>
did you deserve it
<heat>
:(
<geist>
no!
<zid>
do I believe you?
<zid>
<geist> no!
<geist>
i was working at Be at the time and i mailed in a simple patch to the ext2fs tools to fix a build system bug on BeOS
<geist>
and he rejected it saying something like he doesn’t care to fix things for toy oses
<zid>
yea eu4 unplayable... at least this save is, the more I play it the quicker it crashes off a reload
<heat>
oh dang
<mjg>
OH
<geist>
yah it was like daaaamn
<mjg>
ted t'so == ASS
<mjg>
innit
<geist>
but i dunno he works at google., i should chat him some day telling the story
<geist>
he’s probably a nice guy
<mjg>
:)
<mjg>
here is something worse tho
<zid>
do you think he accepts patches for toy OSs now
<geist>
then i’ll achieve nirvana
<heat>
ask him how theodore -> ted
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<mjg>
intel drm drivers are technically bsd licensed, despite being written for linux
<heat>
i mean, it makes sense, and its not his fault, but its just weird
<mjg>
there are people who port them to bsds
<mjg>
one of the devs said that making it feasible does not matter
<geist>
yah the whole thing was because the build system did a hard link of a file where a symlink would do
<mjg>
:d
<geist>
and beos didn’tsupport hard links
<geist>
so ergo, toy os, etc
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<heat>
oh that's kinda weird yeah
<mjg>
no hardlinks?
<mjg>
is that befs limitation or just the kernel?
<geist>
it’s a befs limitation
<geist>
the ext2 driver i was working on at the time supported it just fine
<geist>
which is why i had the patch for the ext2fs tools, because we also built it and included it in the beos retail
<zid>
I'd also say no, if some rando asked me to change my thing for some random unimportant fs I'd never heard of
<mjg>
way back there was a bundle which allowed befs to be installed alongside windows
<geist>
sure but in this case a symlink was just fine
<mjg>
did you work on that?
<geist>
mjg: yep i literally worked on that as partof my internship
<mjg>
then i used your stuff man
<geist>
Be-In-A-File
* mjg
takes a shower
<zid>
I'd be like "now I gotta retest it on everything else though, fuck that"
<geist>
BIF i think we called it
<heat>
was beos known at the time?
<geist>
it was no big thing just added ntfs/ext2 code to the second stage beos bootloader that built a block map of the backing file and passed it to the kernel
<geist>
and then the kernel ran on top of a pseudo device
<Shaddox404>
So which filesystem is considered to be the "better one" among all the other ones out there?
<heat>
omg you're asking controversial questions now
<kazinsal>
better at what
<geist>
the befs llimitation was not the fs, ithink it supported it just fine, but it had a weird programming model called ‘reflinks’ i think
<zid>
fat12 obvs
<geist>
that let youstore a reference to an inode and then open file by inode, and…. <get the path from inode #>
<geist>
which is utterly broken with hard links
<kazinsal>
better for floppies? fat. better for optical media? udf. better for windows? ntfs. better for simplicity in unix? ext*. better at murdering your wife? reiserfs
<geist>
it was a weird macos classicism that had made it into beos, and a kinda bad idea, but you can see why it broke thing
<heat>
oh yeah definitely reiserfs
<zid>
I don't have a wife though
<heat>
you'll end up in jail quicker and are thus released from this hellish landscape called using linux
<mjg>
geist: reliable path resoltuion is a bane of fucking existence on unix
<zid>
Remember heat, Rust takes a lifetime to learn, so the sooner you start, the longer it will take.
<mjg>
geist: ... except if you are linux or dfly
<heat>
can we ask hans reiser to rewrite reiserfs in rust
<mjg>
it literally has r in the name already
<mjg>
so it's liek 30% already done
<heat>
needs a rust pun
<mjg>
roosterfs
<mjg>
fears block allocation
<heat>
killed-my-wife-with-a-rusty-knife-fs
<mjg>
fearless
<Shaddox404>
wd40FS
<zid>
If my filesystem made my hard drive smell of wd40 I'd make 400 partitions of it
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<mjg>
Shaddox404: so all the shit talk aside, there is no "best" fs, even if you specify "for waht purpose"
<heat>
ext4
<heat>
i said it, deal with it liberals
<mjg>
there are however known SHITE filesystems for sure
<mjg>
even if the filesystem itself is sound-ish it may be too unmaintained to be a viable option
<heat>
fat is awful, god awful
<mjg>
fat is widespread, can't be awful!
<heat>
bcachefs just had its first serious data corruption bug a few months after hitting upstream
<mjg>
oh?
<heat>
oh wait no, not data corruption
<heat>
i think
<heat>
oh wait, it can result in data corruption, hilarious
<heat>
anyway btrfs is slow, fat is bad and old, ufs is god knows what, zfs is <expletive>, reiserfs is murderfs, ext2 is unsafe
<heat>
xfs is good actually, it's interesting and not too edgy of a filesystem
<mjg>
yout personal beef with sun engineering ethos is not grounds for shitting on zfs
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<mjg>
credit where credit is due, zfs was years ahead of the rest
<mjg>
today it's probably a questionable pick
<heat>
zfs is insanely complex and can't sanely fit in POSIX semantics
<mjg>
posix semantics are bad
<heat>
yeah but its what we work with
<mjg>
do we tho
<heat>
yeah
<Ermine>
ext2 is simpler than ext4 and can be used as a base for ext4 implementations
<Shaddox404>
I see
<heat>
ext2 isn't bad but i'm not sure if there's any merit in using it in 2024
<Shaddox404>
What do android systems use?
<heat>
ext2 is dead simple, but ext4 isn't much harder to read from at least
<heat>
they use ext4
<Shaddox404>
Ohh
<Ermine>
but anyway
<Ermine>
[Question isbclosed as opionion-based]
<nortti>
heat: don't many use f2fs nowadays?
<heat>
i think this is vendor dependent, but my samsung uses ext4, i think some other ones use f2fs
<heat>
maybe, i don't have a solid data point on this, but last i heard they liked ext4 a lot
<mjg>
heat: vast majority of file usage is create, write shit down, close
<mjg>
heat: and then maybe read
<mjg>
only geezer progs depend on posix semantics
<heat>
but those are posix semantics
<mjg>
dawg what
<heat>
open() + write() + close() and all of the underlying behavior is POSIX/UNIX semantics
<Ermine>
ftfy: vast majority of file usage is creat(2), write(2) shit down, close(2) and then maybe read(2)
* Ermine
speaks in openbsd
<heat>
openbsd(7)
<Ermine>
or 9?
<Ermine>
like onyx(9)
<mjg>
is windows posix semantics
<mjg>
normally when people say "posix semantics" they mean funky stuff like mixing mmap and syscall-based i/o
<mjg>
not the most basic bitch file usage out ther
<mjg>
e
<heat>
no, windows does not have posix semantics and thus has fun gotchas
<heat>
like closing a file being mega expensive because it syncs the page cache
<heat>
why is ntfs slow? because you're not holding windows properly
<mjg>
wait, i just remembered posix in fact does not require coherency vs mmap
<heat>
OPENBSD!
<mjg>
i don't know if close() writing shit out VIOLATES any posix mon
<heat>
it's not violating actual POSIX, it's violating the semantics people expect
<mjg>
*semantics*?
<heat>
most of this isn't written down
<heat>
most posix syscalls are notoriously loose with spec requirements but you still expect otherwise
<heat>
like write() extending a file -> blocks being visibly allocated
<heat>
*cough cough zfs*
<Ermine>
wdym "blocks being visibly allocated"?
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<heat>
st_blocks++
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<mjg>
Ermine: zfs is very funny with querying file size
<mjg>
Ermine: if it did not hit storage yet
<Ermine>
isn't that the case with every other fs?
<mjg>
no
<Ermine>
you need sync() to make kernel write stuff out
<mjg>
i am nto taking about anythign being stored or not
<mjg>
i am talking about querying what the size is
<mjg>
if you create afile, write(2) it out
<mjg>
zfs wil ltell you it eats like 1 block
<mjg>
regardless of how much you pushed there
<mjg>
you can only find out the true size after it does the actual write out
<Ermine>
oic
<mjg>
which is 1. lol 2. breaking stuff
<heat>
i mean the worse bit really is fsync() just not... doing it
<heat>
they act like the ZIL is very special and shit. well, ext4 fsync works, and they also have a journal
<nikolapdp>
zil is not a journal though
<heat>
why not?
<nikolapdp>
it's there to speed up writes, not guarantee consistency
<nikolapdp>
the ziD
<nikolapdp>
stuff gets written to zil and zfs reports it as written, then it moves it to the proper storage in the background
<heat>
but its still a log of stuff you intend to do at some point in time, that needs to get replayed if the system crashes
<nikolapdp>
it doesn't
<heat>
how so?
<nikolapdp>
it's just there, doesn't need to be replayed because it's already on persistant storage and that's what zfs cares about
<nikolapdp>
it's going to be moved to the proper backing storage later
<nikolapdp>
but it's not a consitency thing
<heat>
say i do a write, it writes to the ZIL
<heat>
it crashes
<heat>
how do i retrieve the ZIL's contents
<CompanionCube>
counterpoint: -m exists for a reason
<nikolapdp>
heat: exactly the same way as if it hadn't crashed
<heat>
so the inode points to the ZIL?
<nikolapdp>
i don't know the datails, but it knows stuff is on the zil and it will give you the data
<heat>
"The ZIL exists to track in-progress, synchronous write operations. If the system crashes or loses power, the ZIL can replay the operation"
<nikolapdp>
replay is very loose here
<heat>
"ZFS mount hangs at boot after long ZIL replay"
<CompanionCube>
nikolapdp: eh, iirc the zil is *only* read from after a crash, so can't say it's the same way
<heat>
sounds like a replay of a journal to me
<Ermine>
how do they move stuff from zil to actual storage if they don't read zil
<CompanionCube>
Ermine: often left-out is that there are two zils: one in-memory and one on-disk
<nikolapdp>
yeah
<heat>
dianetics
<Ermine>
kek
<heat>
they use dianetics to move blocks
<heat>
yeah as far as i can tell the ZIL definitely needs to be replayed for you to get the actual data
<heat>
it's just a time-based journal
<nikolapdp>
it's an optimizaton, not a necessity for consistency, also kind of a write cache too
<heat>
yes, it's not exactly the same thing as a journal in a journalling filesystem, but it's also a *log of writes* that you need to replay when mounting
<CompanionCube>
the more direct comparison would be postgresql wal
<nikolapdp>
more or less, yeah
<nikolapdp>
journals and zil have different purposes, therefore not the same thing
<heat>
aka exactly the same thing as an ext4 journal. the jbd2 journal is literally a file with a bunch of blocks, where you from time to time say "committed!" after committing blocks
<heat>
you write blocks, commit them, and mark them committed. aka the ZIL
<nikolapdp>
except zfs is always consistent without a zil, while you can corrupt ext4 withought a journal
<heat>
1) ext4 always has a journal 2) yes, that's not the point
<nikolapdp>
that very much is a point because different purposes
<heat>
the point is that ext4 has the exact same concept and it does reasonable fsync flushing
<heat>
i can expect st_blocks to be stable after an fsync
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<geist>
more lava in iceland
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<kof673>
> way back there was a bundle which allowed befs to be installed alongside windows yes, personal edition 5.0 or so surely. and there was a linux version too. IIRC if you want a real install onto its own partition, i believe you can install that, then install from within that into its own partition
<kof673>
which defeats the point of dual booting, but IIRC there is some way to do that with the personal edition
<kof673>
"real install" not that this gives you anything per se, the in-a-file thing is fully functional/etc.
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<kof673>
> used installer CD created from BeOS4Linux 500M image + 1.44 MB floppy image i have that in my notes but do not recall the details, i purchased the real CD for ppc
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<kof673>
*defeats the point of "dual booting" without having to repartition
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<sham1>
hi
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<clever>
kazinsal: new bob video!, HV port on a pad-mount blew out!
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<zid>
rip, oven died
<GeDaMo>
:(
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<nikolar>
):
<zid>
would anybody like a slightly warm but not cooked pizza
<zid>
either the thermostat or element is dead but you'd need to hotwire the thermostat to figure out which I guess?
<nikolar>
You could do that yeah
<GeDaMo>
Is it a built-in oven?
<zid>
cooker oven hob grill thing
<GeDaMo>
I just have a mini oven now, I don't use it much
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<bslsk05>
www.euclidea.xyz: Euclidea - Geometric Constructions Game with Straightedge and Compass
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<zid>
ooh I remember a game like this
<zid>
it's hharrd
<zid>
nice ui
<zid>
nikolapdp can we play in a min
<kof673>
////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ **** <-- qix game
<mcrod>
hi
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<geist>
seems like the element should have a fixed resistance, so if you pull it out you could test for that with a multimeter
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<zid>
okay I did more investigate
<zid>
I think actually the cooker is fine, what's fucked is the electrics
<zid>
there's an active partial short in the lights downstairs
<zid>
so the cooker is just way down on power
<geist>
yeah not surprising, it's always some random part of the electronics that blows
<zid>
not even blown
<zid>
I think there's a huge voltage drop across the house
<zid>
so the cooker just can't get hot
<zid>
it *works* it just doesn't get beyond like 80C
<geist>
oh! that's not good
<geist>
does it only drop when hte oven is on?
<zid>
all the electronics in the house are on 100V-240V 50-60Hz transformers so they don't care, but the oven is just a resistive load
<zid>
no it's in the lighting
<zid>
I found it
<zid>
as in, you click the switch and you get horrendous buzzing in the back corridor
<zid>
because there's a partial short
<geist>
oh interesting
<geist>
but not enough to trip a breaker
<geist>
though iirc UK wiring is completely different from US wiring, much more so than just the 220v stuff
<GeDaMo>
Ovens are usually on 30A circuits
<geist>
so this is where i have no idea
<geist>
right. but there's something different about how circuits work in UK, or at least traditionally
<geist>
something like there's one big circuit and every switch or plug has it's own breaker or something
<clever>
geist: a ring circuit, the hot goes thru every outlet, and back to the breaker
<clever>
and same for neutral
<GeDaMo>
Plugs normally have their own fuse
<clever>
the idea, is that half the current flows down each side of the leg, and i think due to some funky math, there is less voltage drop at any outlet
<clever>
vs a normal circuit, where outlets at the far end have lower voltage, if there is high load
<bslsk05>
'Turning styrofoam into cinnamon candy' by NileRed (00:52:57)
<zid>
time to boil 750mL of water with lights off: 2:00 and with a slightly warm kettle
<geist>
zid: this seems like a really really dangerous situation zid
<clever>
geist: oh yes, i need to rewatch that, i passed out half way thru, he's gone full mad scientist
<geist>
its possible there's some wiring somewhere in the wall that's sitting there boiling off the protection and about to start a fire
<zid>
well it's not our house, and the landlord has been informed enough that we're suing
<geist>
sure but again, if it burns down...
<clever>
zid: ive seen a video, that in some states, if the land-lord refuses to fix something, you can hire somebody to fix it yourself, and take the cost out of the rent
<geist>
i had a short in one of the houses i was renting years ago that was basically a fire starting to happen
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<zid>
There's an extension to the house with a single lighting circuit
<zid>
and there's water ingress
<geist>
when we found it (in a light box in the hall way) there was already signs of fire
<geist>
there might be a wire somewhere in the wall that's glowing hot
<clever>
there is an outlet at the top of my stairs, just thru the railing, and i once ran a computer on it for a few days
<clever>
then i wanted to run some RCA audio lines to a stereo in another room
<clever>
when i grabbed the 2 RCA ends, i got a nasty zap!
<clever>
i got one of those neon testers with 3 bulbs, and plugged it into the outlet
<clever>
it exploded.....
<geist>
yah i had two computers plugged into each other with a serial cable from across the room. was having problems with it so i went to fiddle with it and turns out there was like a 50V potential between their two grounds
<clever>
the strain relief clampin the box, was tightened too much, and it cut thru the cable, and was touching the hot
<zid>
ground loops are always things I've seen americans complain about but never a brit
<zid>
I wonder if there's some reason for that
<clever>
this wasnt a loop, this was just raw 120v on the gnd pin
<geist>
yeah that was the same house with the almost fire. was built in the 60s, very much not to code
<zid>
geist had a ground loop
<clever>
ahh
<geist>
that was one of the things i paid attention to when i bought this house. it seems to have very solid wiring
<clever>
ive found hockey tape arround junctions in the attic, without a junction box
<geist>
my only complaint is this house was built in 1992, and it's before a code that requires neutral to every switchbox
<geist>
so some have it, some dont. so harder to install things like zigbee lightsiwthces everywhere
<geist>
since some of those require neutral
<clever>
yeah
<clever>
i still need to find some good zigbee hw
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<clever>
no local stores have it, and ive been lazy on looking them up online
<geist>
i've got about 20 zigbee lights, am happy
<geist>
but only have installed one zigbee light switch
<geist>
most of my lights are in my computer room where i just leave the circuit on all the time and have the light themselves turn on and off
<geist>
but i can dial up any color, etc
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<geist>
woot, i just bought 2MB of ram for my PDP11
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<geist>
will be a full suite of 3.5MB
<Mondenkind>
balling
<geist>
yah right?
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<Mondenkind>
I mean
<heat>
i don't think i've ever had something with that little RAM that wasn't a calculator
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<geist>
it currently has 1.5MB, which is the minimum that comes on the pdp 11/53 main board
<geist>
keep in mind this is a very late model pdp. the max addressing it ever had was 22 bits (4MB) so really that's an extremely baller pdp11
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<GeDaMo>
My first computer had 1K RAM :|
<geist>
but to run something relatively expensive like a full unix is a late model thing
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<heat>
my first computer had like... 512MB of ram, something like that. one of the 64-bit pentium 4's i think
<heat>
my first phone was a nokia 6124
<GeDaMo>
Damned kids, get off my LAN etc. :P
<heat>
:P
<GeDaMo>
My first phone had a rotary dial :P
<geist>
yah first was an apple 2, though it had already been upgraded to the full 48K by the time i got it
<nortti>
< Ermine> Nowadays any single app is larger than the whole storage of those phones... ← back in 2016 I was running symbian s60v3 on a nokia n81 8 GiB. even though it had 8 gigs of storage built-in, it was exposed as an SD-card and so you could not install applications onto that space. instead, it had to fit in like in the *checks* apparently 12 MiB of normal built-in memory. whatsapp was by that point
<nortti>
large enough that I had to uninstall it every time I upgraded it, because you could not fit two copies of it on the storage
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* Ermine
checks how much storage samsung galaxy ace had
<Ermine>
158Mb
<heat>
ooh that's a classic one too
<Ermine>
nortti: seems like this was due to storage layout misdesign
<heat>
11 full ARMs!
<Ermine>
heat: ?
<heat>
i remember the ace
<nortti>
Ermine: yeah, it was basically a nokia n81 with a soldered-on SD card in it (for the same reason it did not have a µSD card slot)
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<Ermine>
I guess I won't find any touch screen replacements for ace...
<heat>
the samsung S3 already had a "Quad-core 1.4 GHz Cortex-A9"
<nortti>
when it released that was a worthwhile tradeoff, since who's gonna be able to find an 8 gig µSD card anyways and only apps need to be on the internal storage and there's no way they'd get that big, but soon it would turn out that that was not quite the case
<heat>
did android scale???
<Ermine>
it was linux 2.6 at that point
<Ermine>
Looks like they had binder stuff out of tree at that point of time
<Ermine>
Also, Dalvik VM!
<Ermine>
Which was 100% JIT
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<Ermine>
Also at that point there was MIPS android. At least virtual android
<heat>
i think they used dlmalloc
<Ermine>
Also do you remember time before android studio when they based their IDE on Eclipse?
<heat>
which definitely DOESNT SCALE LAPTOP
<heat>
yes
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<Ermine>
Also there were no hardware acceleration apparently, so AVDs sucked
<nortti>
< Ermine> Also at that point there was MIPS android. At least virtual android ← yeah there were shipped MIPS android devices even. the usage of java was meant to make using whatever cpu architecture painless, though in practice ppl immediately made native libs, which you could not get on MIPS
* CompanionCube
once had one of the x86 Android devices. It even got UEFI in a software update iirc.
<Ermine>
I guess what was those devices
<geist>
i had heard that the x86 android phones were sort of popular in india
<geist>
not sure why
<CompanionCube>
huh
<heat>
yeah i had an asus intel tablet too
<CompanionCube>
mine was a tablet
<geist>
oh yeah tablets too, forgot about that
<Ermine>
intel atom i guess
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<geist>
yah and for a whiel they actually tried to push into proper mobile space
<Ermine>
asus had x86 phones as well
<zid>
atom is the best x86
<geist>
i do have the first gen Alexa Show, which is an x86
<heat>
fun fact: the intel E cores are just intel atoms
<geist>
i'm sure much to the chagrin of folks that probably have to maintain that code base at Amazon
<heat>
they refer internally to them as "intel atom core parts"
<geist>
heat: well, no i'd actually argue sort of not. the E cores are cores that come from Atoms, but Atoms i'd argue are the SOC itself, not the cores
<geist>
but i guess that's semantics
<Ermine>
I remember it when I've got interested in x86 phones, I've googled for them and found out that they threw a towel on it
<geist>
but also the later atom cores are much more powerful than the early ones
<heat>
i think whatever does the link -> web browser thing in my desktop sometimes fucks up the URL
<Ermine>
linuks desktop?
<heat>
yes
<heat>
year of
<Ermine>
hehe
<CompanionCube>
even has good postmarketos support according to the wiki, which would be interesting i still had one but i replaced it a long time ago
<nortti>
how's your current one doing actually?
<CompanionCube>
nortti: good, uptime 14666 days. Just under 60M free storage, It fluctuates up and down around that point. I don't have an sdcard inserted at the moment and am in no rush to put one in.
<Ermine>
Oh gosh, vulkan is a lot of typing
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<CompanionCube>
(there's still the vague intention to root it eventually, maybe after i bother to put an sdcard in again)
<heat>
Ermine, yep, thats the point
<Ermine>
I either should learn typing or get an editor with autocompletion
<heat>
eclipse has auto completion
<heat>
get to it
<Ermine>
If there exist an option worse than vim, that must be eclipse
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<sham1>
> eclipse
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<sham1>
I see your eclipse being worse than vim, and raise you a NetBeans
<heat>
found the netbeans user
<sham1>
Even worserer
<heat>
oh you ruined my joke :(
<sham1>
I'm a Java developer, that's what we do
<sham1>
Too corporate for jokes
<heat>
code::blocks is also awful
<heat>
dev-c++!
<Ermine>
is it alive?
<Ermine>
I mean, code::blocks
<sham1>
Latest stable release of code::blocks was in 2020
<sham1>
Latest preview release was in 2022
<heat>
i don't know i use notepad++
<sham1>
So... maybe?
<sham1>
Their forums also seem active
<sham1>
Latest post today
<Ermine>
code::blocks was enough for contests though
<sham1>
But yeah, the real notable relic is Dev-C++
<Ermine>
Also, geany doesn't seem that bad
* Ermine
VK_TRUE
<sham1>
There's also of course the one-and-only Emacs
<Ermine>
Which is good at everything except text editing
<Ermine>
I didn't have enough will to complete their tutorial
<nortti>
imo emacs is like, fine, the same way vim is. if you get the model it's really powerful and extensible, but it really does predate all the conventions we nowadays have for text editing
<sham1>
I actually am the maintainer of vis in fedora
<Griwes>
that's a pretty great goat
<Ermine>
Idk how to use it
<Ermine>
And no completion anywat
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<heat_>
ed ed ed ed ed
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<zid>
gedamo hiding fuck
<zid>
he linked me that game then won't tell me how to draw a rhombus
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<Cindy>
hi
<heat_>
hi
<nikolar>
Hello
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<Cindy>
in my emulator, i have a real-time clock that interrupts the CPU every 1/100 sec
<Cindy>
and video rate 1/60 sec
<Cindy>
but i'm like.. how do i tie this to VSYNC?
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<Cindy>
i'm just making up shit :P
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<Mondenkind>
Cindy: is this just like. the hardware spec that you're emulating?
<Mondenkind>
if so, then I would assume there's 160 interrupts per second, 100 from the timer and 60 from vsync? but that would be pretty odd so I assume it's actually something else