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<zid>
heat_: I went for a walk around serbia in google maps
<zid>
and we found a girl with a copy of K&R2 in her bag
<heat_>
good choice
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<heat>
i switched to KDE 6 and its so different i don't like it wtf
<nikolapdp>
lol
<CompanionCube>
oh no?
<gog>
i am never upgrading
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<heat_>
i'm back it looks fine
<heat_>
turns out i accidentally booted into GNOME lmao
<heat_>
GNOME looked like *shit*
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<nikolapdp>
lol
<CompanionCube>
this is an excellent joke, 10/10
<heat>
the worst part is that it wasn't a joke
<heat>
i legitimately thought KDE went fucking backwards
<nikolapdp>
lol that's more of a gnome thing indeed
<heat>
i suspect gnome looked so cursed because of my theming
<CompanionCube>
not sure there's really much to be themed in the default GNOME layout?
<heat>
i'm not sure
<heat>
gnome was in dark mode but the colors were completely inverted
<heat>
maybe it takes the gtk theming into account? which i definitely have
<CompanionCube>
yeah but it's a plain bar iirc, so not all that much room to look ugly
<heat>
it looked vaguely like gnome 2 but uglier, if that helps
<CompanionCube>
mmm
<gog>
goone
<CompanionCube>
any thoughts on KDE 6?
<heat>
it looks slightly different but mostly the same
<mjg>
gnome was the default on Solaris
<mjg>
are you seriously going to shit on it?
<heat>
the alt-tab "selector" thingy has some new animation which i'll eventually disable probably
<CompanionCube>
mjg: didn't they insist on additional java branding for some reason?
<heat>
GNOME is installed on 10 trillion devices
<heat>
NetBSD is installed on all retirements homes
<CompanionCube>
ah, seems the java branding was only for 10 and not 11/opensolaris
<heat>
OpenBSD is installed
<heat>
FreeBSD is
<nikolapdp>
BSD
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<heat>
onyx isn't
<heat>
onyxn't
<zid>
novi-sadge
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<nikolar>
There we go zid
<CompanionCube>
Windows was
<zid>
what happened
<nikolar>
Windows
<zid>
windows happened in the year 3
<zid>
point 1
<zid>
then 1992 years later another one
<zid>
heat: You know the major version numbers we were talking about?
<nikolar>
Why 1992
<nikolar>
And not just 92
<zid>
Windows is still massively in the lead, with 2000
<zid>
other software needs to catch up
<nikolar>
Browsers are getting there
<nikolar>
In the 100s
<zid>
other things I learned about serbia: You can read 90% of all signs as long as you can read the word pekara
<heat>
hi nikolar how roman do you feel, as a serbian?
<heat>
pannonia and dalmatia were pretty darn good provinces i'll tell you that
<nikolar>
Not very heat
<nikolar>
Why
<nikolar>
Sure
<zid>
HNKona
<heat>
i'm polling for romanness across ex-roman provinces
<heat>
hi zid how much roman 0 to 10
<nikolar>
Ask zid
<zid>
0, they're 9 russian
<zid>
and 1 slav
<zid>
shit looks like downtown moscow but warmer
<zid>
ladas and brutalist towerblocks only
<nikolar>
It is warmer
<nikolar>
And girls with k&r
<heat>
nikolar, is everything in eastern europe grey like in the movies
<nikolar>
There's a lot of gray,
<nikolar>
But not everything
<heat>
name one thing that isn't grey or in greyscale
<zid>
The red graffiti
<nikolar>
Plenty of buildings are in colour
<heat>
how is that legal
<nikolar>
Like I live in a brick building
<heat>
WHAT
<zid>
stole it frm kosovo
<nikolar>
And, shocker, it was built by commies
<nikolar>
zid no
<nikolar>
Bad zid
<heat>
ohhh is that why it's red then
<elderK>
What the hell?
<nikolar>
Lol more like orange than red
<zid>
glorious communist building materials, red brick
<nikolar>
Lol
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<kof673>
> And girls with k&r i don't know the context but I am going to choose to interpret this a certain way nonetheless
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<kof673>
> tuxedo cats kinda look like penguins, yes yes, and leopards, spotted cows, characters from clue movie with ostrich feather of truthen on their heads...equinox lions who come down from equinox mounts and their faces are veiled...crows sitting on skulls/piles of bones...ostrich i guess too lol lamb...
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<kof673>
acid wins alchemy chat today
<kof673>
magpie, hoopoe bird, etc. etc. etc. :D
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<geist>
neat. replaced my rpi5 case with a solid aluminum fanless, and it seems to work well
<geist>
have had good luck with the same thing on rpi4 and visionfive 2 boards
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<geist>
doing a stress test to see what the temp gets up to, but so far it's only getting up to the upper 50s
<geist>
with the deluxe fan which was kinda noisy it would eventually breach 80c before
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<klange>
forum's fucked; it can't keep sessions straight
<klange>
can't approve posts because of it
<Mutabah>
Hmm... I have a stable login, with the SID in the URL
<Mutabah>
hmm... but post approving doesn't seem to happen
<Mutabah>
ublock being silly?
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<klange>
Mutabah: if the sid ends up in the URL, it means you landed on a page that could not associate your cookie sid with you, it's an indicator of an issue
<klange>
(phpbb populates links with the new sid if that happens... and then it doesn't work properly after that, and ends up giving you new sids all the time)
<Mutabah>
Strange... yet, I'm still logged in
<klange>
Do you check the "always log me in" box?
<Mutabah>
oooh, yes, I did
<klange>
You end up with a fresh logged in session every time, it's super fun!
<Mutabah>
Nice!'
<Mutabah>
Dang, I've not been to the forum in a long time - getting a blast from the past seeing the beginner questions
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<geist>
heh i should start a VAX section on the wiki
<gog>
but you'll get anti-VAXers vandalizing it
<gog>
:D
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<zid>
I'm surprised nikolapdp is awake, I kept him up all night smh
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<nikolapdp>
i mean i am at work zid
<nikolapdp>
some of us have to do that too
<zid>
surprised you didn't sleep in
<zid>
then work from home
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<nikolapdp>
almost did actually lol
<zid>
see, no need for the snark
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<nikolapdp>
nah i was kidding
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<mcrod>
hi
<nikolapdp>
hello mcrod
<mcrod>
nikolapdp may I pet you
<nikolapdp>
sure why not
* mcrod
pets nikolapdp
<nikolapdp>
that was nice
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<nikolapdp>
_m zid i sent him just the link lol
<zid>
RUMBLED
<zid>
that was supposed to go to #shittalkingheatforhissillyopinionsonspqr
<nikolapdp>
yeah dang it
<zid>
I wish spectral cards were better.
<zid>
or rather, less random
<nikolapdp>
spectral cards?
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<zid>
balatro bitches
<nikolapdp>
ah right
<zid>
If you want a different game you have to submit a written request
<nikolar>
Everything here is a written request
<zid>
no, everything here is writing
<zid>
it doesn't qualify as a written request
<zid>
you need to have recorded delivery, and DEAR SIR/LORD,
<nikolar>
Lol
<zid>
Dear lord zid, I am writing to your great self today to request that you play `TEXMASTER`, please find enclosed the £5 application fee. Looking forward to your positive response. Yours, nikola (girl not boy).
<bslsk05>
github.com: lk/app/mdebug at master · littlekernel/lk · GitHub
<geist>
i can't guarantee that the code hasn't rotted, probably hasn't been tested in some time
<geist>
i should dig mine out and see if it works
<adder>
I'm not sure what should be my base and limit for gdt.
<adder>
Should the limit be number of entries times eight?
<heat_>
for the gdtr you mean?
<adder>
Yeah.
<geist>
adder: yes, though if you notice that ends up being size in bytes
<heat_>
base is the gdt's address, limit is the size of the table in bytes - 1
<geist>
oh yeah, -1
<adder>
One more question: is an array of uint64_t a valid gdt?
<heat_>
yes
<heat_>
why wouldn't it
<geist>
yah to the cpu itself it doesn't care. it's just a linear run of bits, so you can use whatever programming type makes sense for your language, as long as it ends up being a linear packed run of entries in memory
<geist>
the IDT works the same way
<geist>
(and the LDT). the only thing the cpu remembers is the base + length so it can consult it later when it needs to read a new segment in
<geist>
think of LGDT/LIDT as just loading a hidden base + length pointer
<geist>
in a hidden register
<adder>
Yeah, alright. Thanks.
<geist>
i dont think there are any limitations to how it's aligned, but there's no reason to not align it on a 64bit boundary
<heat_>
you should align the GDT though, to 64 (or was it 16?) bytes
<zid>
It's surprisingly lax about gdt alignment
<zid>
it feels wrong as shit though
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<nikolapdp>
what does the spec say
<heat_>
what does the fox say
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<geist>
oh no heat why did you say that
<geist>
now it's in my head
<geist>
it's in my head!
<Ermine>
oh no
<heat_>
that song is now over 10 years old
<heat_>
i can't wait for it to become vintage
<nikolapdp>
when does it become vintage then
<heat_>
i don't know
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<heat_>
btw there's no x86 spec, there are x86 manuals that each describe their vendors' implementations
<heat_>
which coincide in a lot of stuff until they don't
<nikolapdp>
right yeah
<nikolapdp>
that's what i meant
<heat_>
x86 is an amazing, cursed architecture
<adder>
How do I know it's successfully loaded?
<nikolapdp>
and amazingly cursed
<heat_>
adder, reload your segment registers, if everything works you're all good
<adder>
Looks like I'm good.
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<bslsk05>
gist.github.com: x86 is an octal machine · GitHub
<sham1>
x86 is quite elegant when you ignore all the later bullshit
<nikolapdp>
neato
<heat_>
no, it's pragmatic
<heat_>
having 200000 special instruction forms for <instr> (R/E)AX is not elegant
<sham1>
Just being RISC doesn't make it more eleganter
<sham1>
X86 is relatively easy to write by hand, especially when compared with a RISC thing like some of the ARMs
<heat_>
this is not a RISC vs CISC thing
<Mondenkind>
risc vs cisc is not a thing
<sham1>
Well, it used to be
<Mondenkind>
anyway avx512 is risc because it has static rounding mode control
<heat_>
i can encode an or imm32, %eax in two different forms because they thought it was convenient to save a byte sometimes, when crammed
<heat_>
this is not elegant, this is pragmatic
<heat_>
CISC doesn't mean that you have to make a mess out of your instruction encoding
<sham1>
Are you saying that being pragmatic like this couldn't be elegant
<Mondenkind>
yeah. it also assumes you're writing code by hand and using the axcumulator a lot which compilers don't really do..
<sham1>
Also remember what I said
<Mondenkind>
sham1: elegance is subjective
<sham1>
> x86 is quite elegant when you ignore all the later bullshit
<zid>
being pragmatic is breakig your orthogonality, for something you need
<sham1>
when you ignore all the later bullshit
<heat_>
this isn't later
<Bitweasil>
... if you mean, say, the 16-bit x86, maybe. Extension prefix bytes alone are enough to call x86 ugly.
<heat_>
these weird AX/DX/DI/SI forms come from early x86 down to 2024 x86
<zid>
riscv is antipragmatic, in that respect
<Bitweasil>
Don't forget AH! :D
<Bitweasil>
"AH: Here be weird hyperthready bugs."
<sham1>
RISCs tend to converge towards more CISCy designs over time. See also: ARM
<heat_>
you're the only one talking about RISC vs CISC
<sham1>
Well no
<sham1>
zid mentioned RISC-V as a point of comparison
<Bitweasil>
RISC-V != RISC, in the RISC/CISC sense...
<heat_>
riscv is definitely not pragmatic IMO
<Bitweasil>
It's just an architecture name. I don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion on the ISA.
<heat_>
to me it feels excessively designed by committee
<heat_>
the vector extension is insane
<nikolapdp>
yeah it sure is
<sham1>
I mean, IIRC it is designed by a committee
<nikolapdp>
the whole arch is a bit whacky
<Mondenkind>
you can argue trying to use one isa for all classes of hardware is a kind of pragmatism?
<Mondenkind>
i guses?
<adder>
heat_: Did you say I should figure out IDT next?
<heat_>
yeah
<sham1>
You should figure out the interrupt handling stuff of your target system quite early
<sham1>
It's of course very important
<heat_>
not yet interrupt handling (in the IRQ sense), but just handling exceptions is super important
<heat_>
interrupts will come next
<sham1>
Thems are interrupts
<Bitweasil>
What if you never fault? ;)
<Bitweasil>
Fully Synchronous OS! :D
<heat_>
evil managarm
<sham1>
See also: MS-DOS /s
<Bitweasil>
I mean, it used INT calls, but... yeah. Pretty much.
<Bitweasil>
If you fully allocate memory before you use it, and busy-wait on disk, or have regular "yield into kernel" calls, you could probably do it.
<heat_>
i don't like that x86 calls exceptions/traps interrupts, because they're really not
<heat_>
interrupts assumes some... interuption
<heat_>
a trap is fully synchronous, works exactly like a system call
<Bitweasil>
ARM has synchronous and asynchronous exceptions.
<Bitweasil>
But they both route into the same table.
<heat_>
yeah the async exceptions are memory and device aborts and the like, iirc?
<Bitweasil>
They're conceptually close enough that the CPU reusing functionality between them, IMO, makes sense.
<Bitweasil>
Or IRQs.
<heat_>
the arm64 irqs are separate i think
<Bitweasil>
No, it's the same vector table for hardware exceptions vs other stuff.
<heat_>
yes, its the same vector table, but different entry points