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<heat_>
re: the MCE stuff, apparently you can even get a SIGBUS for that stuff, if its memory related
<heat_>
i have no idea how they can handle page cache MCEs though, that's almost guaranteed disk corruption
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<heat_>
ah apparently they just drop the page, and if it was dirty then tough shit, -EIO
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<zid>
gog: bullets made of guns
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<klys>
10 mins till the leap second hits the west coast
<klys>
well less...
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<zid>
what's the expected damages?
<kazinsal>
aren't leap seconds usually inserted at the end of june and december
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<sham1>
Leap seconds are always inserted either in June or December
<sham1>
And there's no leap seconds scheduled for this year IIRC
<sham1>
Since unlike leap years, there's no handy formula for leap seconds. The astronomers just announce it like a year in advance to get UTC up to sync with UT1
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<zid>
I thought they'd basically given up on leap seconds
<nikolapdp>
not yet
<zid>
oh it was just nikolar we gave up on then
<zid>
nikolapdp: how's honzuki/
<nikolapdp>
slow
<nikolapdp>
read another chapter lol
<zid>
just sit down for an hour and read the whole thing
<heat>
did yall know windows networking is all done in ioctls for an obscure mostly-undocumented driver
<heat>
who needs syscalls when you can ioctl
<zid>
who needs ioctls when you can MESSAGEBOX
<zid>
Just send WM_SOCKET around in the message queues for doing socket transfers
<heat>
sorry, not ioctl, dave cutler would never use ioctls. dave cutler only uses device io controls, like a cultured man
<zid>
My monitor is unhappy this morning, but on the plus side, still haven't caught an MCE in animal crossing
<zid>
I caught a ladybug, loach, barred knifejaw, orchid mantis, stinkbug, tiger butterfly etc though
<bslsk05>
'David Goggins Training With Tony Ferguson 🤯🏋🏻 #motivation #shorts #davidgoggins' by Rise Again (00:00:45)
<heat>
he lost btw
<mjg>
very motivating
<mjg>
i like that he had a bag ready
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<netbsduser>
there is a book about the OS/2 kernel
<netbsduser>
gordon letwin's inside os/2
<kazinsal>
I should buy that, I need to collect more Inside <operating system name here> books
<netbsduser>
it is an outrageously unix-like kernel
<kazinsal>
Windows Internals 7th Edition is a wonderful insight
<netbsduser>
letwin had previously worked on xenix and he swiped the concepts of unix in their near entirety
<kazinsal>
the second volume has like 500 pages dedicated to the filesystem layers
<netbsduser>
i have the both of them and consult them from time to time but i've never read them through in their entirety
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<netbsduser>
letwin accomplished a remarkable feat
<netbsduser>
he is universally known as a programmer of the highest calibre for his implementation of HPFS, including its disk b tree manipulation routines, entirely in assembly
<nortti>
how did os/2 implement shared libraries? aiui it got them before they were common in unix
<Ermine>
I guess similarly to winnt?
<netbsduser>
i don't know much about shared libraries on OS/2 other than that, if i remember rightly, 32-bit OS/2 maps them into a common region of the virtual address space shared by all processes
<netbsduser>
but that might be another OS
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<zid>
playd AC for 2 hours, no crashes, good good
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<azureal>
I am trying to create a forum account on OSDev.org, I can't seem to answer the question properly: "You have provided an invalid answer to the confirmation question."
<azureal>
The site seems to be active, users are posting recently on various topics.
<zid>
what is it?
<azureal>
There are two questions which are presented: Question
<azureal>
A reboot happens when a <answer> fault occurs.
<zid>
okay and what did you type?
<zid>
(I'll tell you the answer I am just super curious)
<azureal>
I said segmentation, kernel, triple, double. All wrong
<zid>
triple is correct
<azureal>
let me try it again
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<azureal>
now it states "The submitted form was invalid. Try submitting again."
<azureal>
every field is filled in, it asks about Freenode IRC id, to which I answer "#azureal"
<azureal>
maybe no hash symbol?
<GeDaMo>
Nicks don't have hashes
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<GeDaMo>
Also, Freenode?
<zid>
hello #gedamo
<GeDaMo>
##zid :|
<zid>
I'm a sussy baka imposter? :(
<azureal>
ok, seems like it may have worked with no hash, possibly just waiting for approval from admins. says login is inactive.
<bslsk05>
tia.mat.br: How async/await works in Lwan — L. Pereira's blog
<gorgonical>
hello mentlegen
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<sham1>
Mentlegen!
<nikolar>
acidx is that about your improvised coroutines
<nikolar>
In c
<acidx>
nikolar: partially, yeah, but also how it interacts with the event loop (that originally only controlled coroutines based on the readiness for a single file descriptor) to await on the readiness of more than one file descriptors
<nikolar>
Neat
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<adder>
acidx: Great, I'll have a look as soon as I'm done with my electronics lesson. :) Thanks.
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<heat_>
\o/
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<nikolar>
/o\
<gorgonical>
-o-
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<heat_>
how's everyone
<nikolar>
Pretty good
<nikolar>
How are you
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<heat_>
i'm okay
<heat_>
just woke up from a kind-of long nap
<mjg>
watap
<mjg>
handsome and otherwise
<gorgonical>
I am working my way through an instant noodle sampler pack and today I had a really spicy one
<gorgonical>
So that was fun
<mjg>
instant noodle sampler pack?
<mjg>
that's like PESSIMAL food choice
<heat_>
sounds like pessimal noodle interrupts vs optimal noodle direct polling (sampling)
<mjg>
is your hunger edge or level triggered?
<heat_>
edge triggered, comes through MSIs
<mjg>
twitter triggered snowflake
<mjg>
got em'
<mjg>
>8)-|-<
<mjg>
oslo:
<mjg>
LOL o \o \o/ \o o <o <o> o> o DANCE
<mjg>
DANCE .|. |. | / X \ | <| <|> LOL
<mjg>
LOL / \ >\ /< >\ /< >\ /< >\ /< DANCE
<mjg>
(fuck people without fixed-width fonts)
<heat_>
thanks
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<gorgonical>
mjg: it is indeed not a good choice, but I wanted to know
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<gorgonical>
I don't eat instant noodles very often, maybe twice a month, and I pretty much always get the same ones so I wanted to broaden my sodium noodle horizons
<mjg>
i have not ate that since college i think
<mjg>
not that i'm mr great diet here
<gorgonical>
I eat the indomie mi goreng ones with the fancy sauce and stuff on occasion
<mjg>
still, noodles are an example thing you can easily cut out
<mjg>
i'm getting off your back tho :p
<gorgonical>
of any kind, really. pasta is just italian noodles
<gorgonical>
maybe marginally better for you since it doesnt' always come with sodium sauce
<gorgonical>
the number of undergrads here that think 500g of spaghetti with a jar of pasta sauce is somehow healthier than the same calories of instant noodles is pretty funny
<mjg>
i knew people doing fast food work, every single one told me to not eat at whatever place they happened to be
<mjg>
:]
<heat_>
don't eat, stay hard
<gorgonical>
I never worked fast food but I did work at a bbq place and a pizza place. The pizza place was fine, just pizza after all. It was at least thin crust so proportionally more not-bread to it
<gorgonical>
The bbq place was not healthy lmao
<mjg>
heat_: how many hell weeks have you passed through this week?
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<heat_>
42
<geist>
hello
<heat_>
hi geist.github.com
<geist>
i'd be coming in from my VAX but i turned it off
<geist>
so i have to use this terrible terrible new bloaty nonsense
<geist>
JAVASCRIPT even
<kazinsal>
gasp
* kazinsal
says, from an irccloud window
<heat_>
ugh BLOATED
<geist>
think of all the VUPs it takes to enter a character via irccloud
<heat_>
🤮🤮🤮🤮
<geist>
but i turned it off because it's raining and dont want to expose the old power supplies to flaky power any more than i have to
<kazinsal>
I actually ran a benchmark last night and found my machine is a whopping 596,000 VUPs
<geist>
heh
<geist>
yah and i have 1024 times the amount of ram on my laptop than the vax server
<geist>
needed to run the JAVASCRIPT
<heat_>
laptop won't heat the room though
<kazinsal>
imagine telling someone with their shiny new 11/780 in 1979 that. "yeah man that's cool, 45 years from now my computer the size of a 24-pack is half a million times that"
<geist>
and could emulate your machine with an emulator written in an interpreted language faster than the original
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<heat_>
what emulator are you talking about?
<geist>
was just watching some vid of a guy loading a RL disk pack on his pdp 11/23 and booting i think RSTS
<geist>
heat_: oh that probably doesn't eixst, but i do see lots of javascript based emulators for beefier machines than a 70s vax. stuff like mac emulators that run in your browser
<kazinsal>
there's probably a wasm port of simh
<geist>
this vax is about 386 class, and you can definitely easily emulate a PC in your browser
<heat_>
yeah
<mjg>
you irc without ssl from that?
<mjg>
i thought no-ssl was banned(?)
<heat_>
no-ssl still works
<mjg>
or perhaps you only use it as a terminal
<geist>
not on libera.chat
<mjg>
tried *with* ssl? :p
<kazinsal>
there's probably enough grognards in the libera ruling council running vaxen that nossl is allowed for that specific reason :P
<geist>
from the VAX? wouldn't work if nothing else bcause the SSL layer is almost certainly too old
<heat_>
cryptography is pessimal
<geist>
can't use ssh into/out of it since it speaks too old a protocol
<geist>
(netbsd 1.5)
<geist>
i could do it from the sparcs though since i hae netbsd 9 on them
<kazinsal>
yeah, last time I had my vax working it was running netbsd 5.something and sshing into it was slow enough that it timed out
<geist>
i can ssh into those, and it's slow, but bearable, just burns 20% of the cpu when transferring data
<geist>
but my low end sparcstation is probably a few times faster than the biggest vax i have
<heat_>
computers are craaaaaaaaazy eh
<heat_>
who would've known
<geist>
so yeah i telnet into my vaxen and whatnot in my house
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<geist>
i put them on a separate vlan so they're at least somewhat protected
<mjg>
why not rsh!
<geist>
(also they tend to spew decnet stuff)
<mjg>
do you also uucp stuff for lulz/
<geist>
i have done that, but actually fun fact i discovered: modern linux distros seem to implement rsh with ssh
<geist>
so if you type rsh it just tries to ssh into it
<mjg>
:)
<kazinsal>
once I get the half dozen mostly dead machines in my place back up and running I'll set up a specific VLAN for them
<kazinsal>
I just need... a bunch of various capacitors
<kazinsal>
and the weather to stop suckin' so I can do some soldering out on the balcony
<geist>
mjg: but actually yes i have rshed into bsd 2.11 from my mac laptop (which has a proper rsh)
<geist>
oh totally. i have a HD on my gaming PC in the living room and hearing the disk when it's loading a game is not so pleasing
<heat_>
nothing pisses me off more than mechanical hard drive sounds as you're trying to do actual stuff and it keeps clicking and the IO queue gets longer and the system gets freezier
<geist>
i think honesty its because with a more modern thing the disk behavior is somewhat decoupled from the task
<heat_>
ever since i switched to SSD i'm much happier
<geist>
so you dont get the immediate task, disk, response loop
<netbsduser>
i should do some IRC'ing from my amiga
<geist>
it's more like task, <disk starts doing shit for the next while>, response starts loading, waiting, etc
<kazinsal>
I've got a few HDDs in my server as a RAID but the fan in the power supply is louder than the disks will ever be so I technically don't hear them
<netbsduser>
either under the amiga workbench or under NetBSD, no one minds which
<geist>
kazinsal: yah this 2GB connor scsi drive i had laying around is *perfect*. quiet spindle but a perfectly lovely clicking sound
<geist>
i have probably 10-15 scsi drives of one form laying around, but i'd say about 80% of them are annoyingly loud spindles
<mjg>
8/
<netbsduser>
using a mechanical hard drive of that vintage is brave
<netbsduser>
i use a Scsi2SD
<heat_>
geist, if you're talking about caching, the way to do caching (and writeback afaik) hasn't changed much over the last 20 years
<geist>
well, i figure it'll die some time and i'll use a scsi2sd then, which i also have
<kazinsal>
I've got one of those in the dead vax
<heat_>
mybe 30
<geist>
my openvms machine is using one of those
<geist>
but until then i may as well use the disk
<kazinsal>
going forward though I'm going to start buying bluescsis
<geist>
heat_: yeah but this BSD 2.11 is 40 years old :)
<netbsduser>
i really ought to get an openvms machine
<netbsduser>
that OS is of a wondrous structure
<kazinsal>
same idea, just actually updated regularly
<netbsduser>
i have the book on it
<kazinsal>
and also has this neat wireless option for emulating some old SCSI ethernet controller
<geist>
and yeah bluescsi i've started to use
<heat_>
geist, you *might* hear it a lot because you're running out of buffers and swapping them out constantly ;)
<geist>
the rp2040 based ones
<geist>
heat_: nah by the time you get back to bsd 2.11 or so it's not really caching much of anything
<geist>
and writes are synchronous
<heat_>
but even mega old v6 unix had a buffer cache?
<heat_>
or so i thought...
<geist>
i ony have 1.5MB of ram on this thing, so it's probablyjust caching a handful of blocks
<netbsduser>
it did
<netbsduser>
it allocates a fixed number of buffers
<nortti>
reminds me of when I'm using my powerbook 1400c to take notes. the hard disk parks after like 10min, but then I use a letter I haven't before and it freezes for just a bit as it spins up the hard disk to load the font data
<geist>
yah netbsd 1.5 i was reading the source for how it computes the size of the buffer cache and it says it's using the classic unix method
<geist>
something like 20% of the first 1MB and then 5% of all the subsequent MB of ram after that
<geist>
computes to about 1.5MB on a 32MB system
<heat_>
wow that's small
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<geist>
netbsd 1.6 is where as we were saying the other day, switched to a dynamic system. ie, unified buffer cache
<heat_>
i wouldn't be surprised if they still artificially limited them
<heat_>
or had a sysctl knob or something
<netbsduser>
it would be wicked to artificially limit
<geist>
possible. but i think it was just another time. you didn't have journals, so you probably wanted most of your metdata to be synchronous to avoid trashing the fs on shutdown
<netbsduser>
free memory is the unforgivable sin
<geist>
and you just didn't expect the FS to be blazingly fast
<kazinsal>
insert "ought to be enough for anybody" joke here
<heat_>
netbsd artificially limits vnodes
<heat_>
the precedent is there
<geist>
expectations were just different
<netbsduser>
those are different
<geist>
well, also dont compare modern netbsd with legacy stuff. by 1.5 it's still largely a direct derivative of BSD 4.4
<geist>
it was pretty contemporaneous of other unices at the time
<heat_>
to be fair, traditional UNIX metadata is very harmlessly lossy
<netbsduser>
some of them were bolting ahead at the time, like tru64, or solaris, the queen of unix systems
<heat_>
if you die in the middle of a non-journalled btree insert, the fs is fucked
<geist>
heat_: indeed
<geist>
i remember when linux was getting started in the 90s and ext2 was just completely write back
<heat_>
if you die in the middle of a bmap tree insert, you either lose data or get some garbage
<geist>
folks were like 'what sort of crazy hobby shit is this'
<geist>
and i definitely remember basically completely losing my FS once and that was about when i started using freebsd for anything serious
<netbsduser>
they would've thought the same of the rest of linux
<geist>
indeed
<heat_>
the smelly foss people won
<geist>
late 90s early 2000s if you wanted a stable PC server unix you ran freebsd
<netbsduser>
it's like if someone turned a random project from the osdev forum into a top OS
<geist>
i think ifyou had to type stuff on a teletype with ed you’d probably go for brevity too
<mjg>
:)
<froggey>
skill issue, etc, etc
<geist>
even on a 9600 baud terminal, it takes a very noticeable amount of time to repaint the screen if paging through source
<geist>
and presumably it’s clearing the screen and only sending visible characters
<heat_>
WHATS THE PROBLEM WITH ED???!?!?
<mjg>
emacs is webdev of unix editors11
<heat_>
ed + roff >> emacs + LaTeX
<geist>
no problem with ed, but you probably should be using it if you’re on a teletype
<geist>
since reprinting the screen is a bit expensive every time you input a character
<kazinsal>
getting a whole 80x24 printout at 1200 baud every time I hit a key
<heat_>
fwiw modern text editors dont actually repaint the whole screen
<geist>
LIES
<heat_>
wdym lies i had to debug nano on my OS
<geist>
depends on the capability of the terminal of course
<heat_>
there are some swanky commands you can use
<geist>
but yeah by later on vt terminals you could avoid repaints a fair amount
<kazinsal>
the vt52 was a damn miracle in the mid 70s on account of being able to do both forward and reverse scrolling in hardware
<geist>
yah
<geist>
that’s why i was saying paging through source on a vt is fairly slow, since that’s pretty much guaranteed to redraw the whole screen
<kazinsal>
yeah
<kazinsal>
a full 80x24 screen at 9600 baud would take about a whole second iirc
<geist>
yah tat’s about right
<geist>
i shold actually figure out how to get the pdp11 to run at a higher baud. i think it can do 19200, but it defaults to 9600, etc and requires some fiddling with dip switches and whatnot to get it faster
<geist>
i’m not sure software actually has the ability to change the baud