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<Scopeuk>
linext_ are your pipes the right way around? they are from php's end according to the docs
<Scopeuk>
on windows pipe 0 is standard in (php write app read) 2 is standard out (php read app write) and 3 is standard error (php read app write)
<Scopeuk>
I think those three are the same on posix os's but windows also provides application defined 3 through 10
<Scopeuk>
what you have does appear to match their examples however
<Scopeuk>
although you are binding pipes to php and also redirecting std error to std out in the command issued (which will only work if invoked via cmd or power shell if I remember correctly (this is what the 2>&1 is doing)
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<Guest67>
hi all new user here , how can I save something as an sty and not a scad file ?
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<J1A848090>
\nick J1A84
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<Scopeuk>
hmm I guess Guest67 stuck around 10 minutes, more than average but not much help, I also thought having export -> stl on the file menu that write a console message of "you need to press f6 and try this again" would be enough
<J1A84>
as i learned ... some people have closed the console window Ü .. however give them a bit time and they find the answer by them self just because waiting is too boring
<J1A84>
so they start pressing buttons .. and between preview and stl is render .. an auto render if no render data would help too .. or we make an arrow between F5⇒F6⇒STL
<Scopeuk>
I suppose if console hidden maybe throw a dialog a the user to ask the question
<Scopeuk>
export -> stl. if not rendered ask user if we should render
<Scopeuk>
a user shouldn't be able to hide a blocking error
<J1A84>
yeah it already asking with a dialog if "previews render" should be exported if you have changed your code .. it is about the people hitting F6 the first time in their life
<J1A84>
so i think if you want to export it should just render for you if no data is there to export .. still there could be no object in scene or 2D .. so maybe grey out the export if no render data is there, that would also fit to grey out 3D export if only 2D is rendered
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<JordanBrown>
Render can take a long time and is hard to abort, so doing it totally automatically might be rude. But having the "current tab has been modified since last render" offer to render and then export doesn't seem silly.
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<J1A84>
so export with 5min render is rude .. but telling you can only export if you hit render (which takes 5min) is not Ü
<JordanBrown>
The difference is whether it happens when you didn't really mean to hit F7.
<JordanBrown>
(Admittedly, you might well have accidentally hit F6 instead.)
<JordanBrown>
It's committing somebody to a 5m render when they didn't explicitly ask for it that bothers me.
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<J1A84>
i do understand the power of illusion of choice
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<JordanBrown>
Though the more that I think about it, the more that I think that if F7 had always been "render if necessary, then export", it wouldn't bother me at all.
<JordanBrown>
The reason that it bothers me is that it's a change, that F7 today is a low-cost operation and turning it (sometimes) into a high-cost operation changes that.
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<Scopeuk>
so the halfway house (https://xkcd.com/1172/ ) would be to add "auto render before export" as a check box in the settings I guess
<InPhase>
Scopeuk: Is this really a thing that goes wrong often?
<InPhase>
Scopeuk: I don't know how everybody else is using OpenSCAD, but I almost always render quite a few times before export.
<JordanBrown>
Why? What does render get you that preview doesn't?
<InPhase>
JordanBrown: A result that matches what will be exported, first of all.
<InPhase>
They aren't always equal. Problems sometimes show up differently, so you have to inspect.
<InPhase>
You generally wouldn't want to waste time printing something until you've at least looked at it. So if you don't look in OpenSCAD you're postponing that to the slicer.
<InPhase>
It's a valid choice for certain well-tested parametric designs as part of an automated pipeline, but that to me seems to be a rare usage compared to the bulk.
<Friithian>
many slicers autoreload changed files so I can see a workflow where you type code, hit export, look at cura or whatever
<InPhase>
Friithian: I suppose theoretically. Now find me someone who is doing that. :)
<JordanBrown>
Hmm. Yeah, I suppose that there's a couple of classes of problems that only a full render shows. I guess that I run into those rarely enough that I regard F5 as the "many times" operation, and normally it's F6-then-render. Only rarely does the F6 reveal a problem.
<Friithian>
uh… *raises hand*
<JordanBrown>
Oops "F6 then export".
<InPhase>
Friithian: Normally, or to test it out just now?
<Friithian>
I like cura's viewer better, it also gives me a good sense of scale
<InPhase>
Ok. I can accept it as a preference. Although I personally think Cura's viewer is much worse, and would much rather inspect inside OpenSCAD.
<Friithian>
cura also yells at me when my mesh is shit
<InPhase>
I also think we soon need to do a proper accounting of the performance differences between preview and render in the master branch across many real world designs.
<InPhase>
There are a lot of cases where render is the same speed now, and some where it's slower but not nearly as much slower as it used to be.
<InPhase>
If we would file down some of the rough edges, and get color print support, preview can go away entirely.
<InPhase>
This has gone from unthinkable to thinkable.
<InPhase>
"Auto preview on save" would turn into "Auto render on save".
<InPhase>
At that point "Auto export on render" makes sense, and would support Friithian's workflow.
<Friithian>
honestly I should just fully fix my workflow to actually use neovim and write a script to make it auto export and render on save
<InPhase>
For that compare we would need the disk caching working right.
<InPhase>
s/that compare/that to compare/
<J1A84>
hm cura does auto reload? a always have a pop up "mesh changed reload" .. which is different to right click reload and mess up the order
<InPhase>
The ram caching of render components really improves the times. But that would potentially carry over on command line runs if we set it up to do this by default or with a --cache option and --clear-cache.
<J1A84>
InPhase if "auto export on render" becomes a thing .. it should remember the last filename when overwriting
<InPhase>
Yeah, presumably something like that.
<InPhase>
I suppose it's not obvious how you'd elegantly kickstart it. It was a half-baked proposal that requires full baking.
<JordanBrown>
Do you guys mean "auto export on render" or "auto render on export"? If you're using render to check your model, would you want it to automatically export? If it doesn't warn on overwrite, you might be overwriting something you want to keep, but if it does warn then that would be annoying when
<JordanBrown>
"Auto render on export" doesn't have those problems.
<JordanBrown>
your goal was diagnostic.
<JordanBrown>
Then there's "auto render on typing". I've gotten into that mode (well, preview) a few times when I've left animation running.
<J1A84>
a checkbox with "on file change render and overwrite last export"
<J1A84>
maybe with a warnig " hope you know what you are doing"
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<Scopeuk>
InPhase this all started from being able to miss the please press f6 message the exported gives in the console if the console is hidden and potentially a way around it. I certainly don't consider it much of an issue
<InPhase>
Scopeuk: It's worth a little brainstorming and discussion about user workflow now and then. One person's small gripe could easily be a big gripe for tens of thousands. One just has to discuss and deduce which things are this and which aren't, and which are doable without disruption and which aren't.
<InPhase>
What you don't want to do is poll people. People will regularly pick things they don't really want, because they don't see the consequences. But reasoning it out based on thoughts like that can work pretty reliably.
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<Scopeuk>
yeh, there is no harm in discussing how people use the tool, that is certainly what this place is for
<Scopeuk>
sometimes that will inform direction of development other times it wont
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<teepee>
just to follow up on the weather station print, looks like the white acrylic painted PLA is doing ok in the crazy heat :)
<teepee>
still waiting on the ASA delivery
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<InPhase>
teepee: An enamel paint would be sliiightly better for an outdoor or water exposed unit. It's a tad better with the intense water exposure over many years.
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<InPhase>
teepee: Will you show pictures once it's in place? :)
<teepee>
water? what water? :D
<J1A84>
enamel is much harder than acylic paint - and plastic has a high expansion in heat so i would use acrylic paint so it doesn't crack
<teepee>
yeah, I really need to get some pictures, again fully printed including the clamp using your screw library ;-)
<teepee>
ah, good point. also acrylic is easy to use as it's water soluble before use
<InPhase>
J1A84: Hmm, possible issue.
<InPhase>
teepee: You need to create two weather stations to settle this paint question.
<J1A84>
and a control with PU paint
<J1A84>
or no paint .. and ASA .. and there are UV protector additives .. so use sunblocker weekly on one Ü
<teepee>
yep, second one probably will be the ASA, I sort-of bought it for that
<teepee>
with my current speed for that stuff, I'll likely only manage one more this year ;-)
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<J1A84>
looks very nice!
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<InPhase>
J1A84: Looks like they should be making those concrete blocks out of the spray, and maybe just spray a thin brick coating onto the surface for aesthetics.
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<InPhase>
teepee: Oh, I just noticed the hand grips on the bolts. That looks like a nice choice. And I suppose that main unit one has a drainage hole in the middle?
<InPhase>
Oh, or maybe that's a wiring hole. :)
<J1A84>
the thread may work as drainage - maybe add a cut too .. as it is possible that morning dew condenses inside the station
<InPhase>
Evaporative clearance is already available through the big holes.
<InPhase>
Although really this thing shouldn't get any water inside unless you have near hurricane level winds giving you sideways wind, in which case you're going to be stress testing the mount right before the drainage problems arise. :)
<InPhase>
s/sideways wind/sideways rain/
<J1A84>
if it is cold you will have condensing air and liquid build up inside .. but as there is not much air volume exchange it probably is only a little - however it could accumulate
<J1A84>
everything should have a drain hole at deepest location Ü
<InPhase>
When I lived in California, I installed a rain gauge on my house. The government paid us a big rebate on our sprinklers if we added a rain gauge to not run them when it rains. Which was kind of funny because it almost never rained, and therefore was pretty useless. ;)
<teepee>
I have not actually tested this but water should honour gravity :D
<InPhase>
But I note rainfall measurement is missing from this unit.
<InPhase>
How wide is the drainage hole?
<InPhase>
Water will not go out of a thin hole unless there is a thick pile of water on top pushing down.
<teepee>
hmm, good question, surface tension can be annoying
<InPhase>
But anything bigger than a standard water drop will drip down.
<InPhase>
Although as long as it is not a big enough puddle to cover your unit, that will do the job, and the rest will evaporate.
<InPhase>
I'd be shocked if you got much of any water in there anyway short of an epic flood, at which point not your biggest concern.
<teepee>
4 mm
<teepee>
not so much flood, it's 2nd floor, but condensation
<InPhase>
4mm will do it.
<InPhase>
That's water drop diameter, hitting that right threshold.
<teepee>
we'll see how it goes. while I would hate to lose one of those sensors, they are not *that* expensive
<InPhase>
If you filled it with a bucket of water, I predict it drains until you get like a few drops in the middle and some surface moisture left.
<InPhase>
4mm is also big enough to self-clean the dust.
<J1A84>
and the slits have a print optimized tip
<teepee>
the beauty of printed screws, I can always make them bigger :)
<teepee>
yes, classic teardrop shape
<InPhase>
teepee: As demonstrated by the M50 screw there.
<teepee>
yep, it's such a neat way to print things separate and without support
<teepee>
but still no need for extra material
<InPhase>
Agreed. I aim for zero support in every design, and would rather assemble pieces like this.
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