15:12 <rue_mohr> I'v done it!!! I fixed the viewer on openscad to use a proper sphere surface drag model, so you can freely rotate the model to any orientation without hitting a gimbal lock!!!!

15:21 <InPhase> rue_mohr: That sounds very helpful. The gimbal chaos in OpenSCAD's viewer can get pretty bad, and the hysteresis on it makes it even worse.

16:03 <Virindi> ...just use qats?

16:04 <Virindi> I assume openscad uses euler angles

16:05 <Virindi> poles are definitely annoying in the viewer, for sure

16:05 <InPhase> Virindi: A good read on quaternions, if you're into that sort of thing: https://marctenbosch.com/quaternions/

16:06 <Virindi> I am familiar with them from the game development side :)

17:45 <InPhase> Virindi: The title is "Let's remove Quaternions from every 3D Engine". Provocative on purpose, but he makes a solid argument for tweaking the way we represent that concept.

19:58 <dTal> InPhase: I don't really understand quaternions nor the proposed replacement but my understanding is that they're completely isomorphic, i.e. when all's said and done you're performing the exact same arithmetic operations

20:36 <InPhase> dTal: Correct. The math wasn't wrong. It's just that the perspective of quaternions is a little opaque about what's happening.

20:36 <InPhase> And probably this opaqueness contributes to a lot of the mystical confusion about them.

20:37 <InPhase> It's highly abstract.

20:38 <InPhase> That bivector approach still takes some learning, but seems to give a more geometrically grounded approach around which one can develop a better spatial intuition.

20:45 <juri_> geometric algebra is fun.

21:26 <peepsalot> weird, openscad's gimbal control has never bothered me. and I genuinely have no idea what "hysteresis" InPhase refers to

21:32 <peepsalot> i guess i never use the vpr.y axis

21:38 <teepee> yeah, same for me

21:39 <teepee> maybe just ignored the issue as it always existed :)

21:41 <dTal> I do get annoyed at the gimbal sometimes but there's that handy little button at the far left of the row that reliably fixes everything

21:50 <teepee> if there's a fix, that would be nice anyway. who knows, might still be awesome even not missing it right now :D

22:31 <J22> if you use shift to rotate

23:38 <peepsalot> J22: yep, that's what i meant about vpr.y axis. I just never have had a reason or want to rotate the camera in that manner for the purpose of modeling

23:39 <peepsalot> reminds me of playing that old game Descent. its nothing but a good way to disorient yourself