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<aeth>
I finally found a use for combining &rest and &key
<aeth>
in a destructuring-bind, where in this particular part, you only care about one key
<beach>
That's a pretty common one, for instance when you want to pass on keyword arguments to another function, but perhaps prefix them with some modified ones.
<aeth>
I suppose &rest implies &allow-other-keys ?
<aeth>
Or is this a nonportable assumption?
<beach>
I don't think that's the case.
<aeth>
so (&rest foo &key bar) wouldn't necessarily accept baz unless I add &allow-other-keys ?
<ixelp>
Clostrophilia/Code/Generic-function-initialization/initialize-instance-methods.lisp at master · robert-strandh/Clostroph [...]
<aeth>
ah, I see you do use &allow-other-keys
<aeth>
and it does seem to be required
<beach>
Yes, you need &ALLOW-OTHER-KEYS.
<aeth>
in e.g. ,(destructuring-bind (x y &rest foo &key bar &allow-other-keys) (list 42 43 :bar 44 :baz 45) (values x y foo bar))
<ixelp>
(destructuring-bind (x y &rest foo &key bar &allow-other-keys) (list 42 43 :bar 44 :baz 45) (values x y foo bar)) => 42; 43; (:BAR 44 :BAZ 45); 44
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<beach>
As I recall, there is an exception for methods. I think the wording in the standard is that a method function is called "as if given :ALLOW-OTHER-KEYS T" or something like that.
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<beach>
,(defgeneric foo (&rest x &key y &allow-other-keys)) ,(defmethod foo (&rest x &key y)) ,(foo :z 234)
<ixelp>
(defgeneric foo (&rest x &key y &allow-other-keys)) => #<STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION FOO #x144C444E> and (defmethod foo (&rest x &key y)) ;Compiler warnings : ↩ ; In (FOO NIL) inside an anonymous lambda form: Unused lexical variable X ↩ ↩ ; In (FOO NIL) inside an anonymous lambda form: Unused lexical variable Y ↩ => #<STANDARD-METHOD FOO NIL> finally (foo :z 234) => NIL
<beach>
Er...
<beach>
,(defgeneric foo (&rest x &key y &allow-other-keys)) ,(defmethod foo (&rest x &key y) (list x y)) ,(foo :z 234)
<ixelp>
(defgeneric foo (&rest x &key y &allow-other-keys)) => #<STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION FOO #x144C3F7E> and (defmethod foo (&rest x &key y) (list x y)) => #<STANDARD-METHOD FOO NIL> finally (foo :z 234) => ((:Z 234) NIL)
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<aeth>
ah, methods must be where I saw that before and they are a special case
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<beach>
Interesting. In a fresh SBCL, if I do (DEFMETHOD FOO (&REST X &KEY Y) (LIST X Y)) and then (DEFGENERIC FOO (&REST X &KEY Y &ALLOW-OTHER-KEYS)) and then (FOO :Z 234) it works as expected, just as if I had interchanged the DEFGENERIC and DEFMETHOD forms.
<beach>
However, if instead I do (DEFMETHOD FOO (&REST X &KEY Y) (LIST X Y)) and then (FOO :Z 234) (getting an error) and then (DEFGENERIC FOO (&REST X &KEY Y &ALLOW-OTHER-KEYS)) and then again (FOO :Z 234), I still get the error.
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<beach>
I guess they must be caching the discriminating function.
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<Josh_2>
GM GM :wave:
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<dnhester26>
good afternoon, sorry to jump on the question like that
<beach>
Hello dnhester26. No, what makes you think that?
<beach>
dnhester26: But the thing with lists is that Common Lisp doesn't have an abstract data type LIST. A list is just a sequence of CONS cells ending with an atom, or not ending at all.
<dnhester26>
beach: because ,(list) => NIL but I would expect it to be some empty list instead ()
<ixelp>
(list) => NIL
<beach>
That's what I mean by Common Lisp not having an abstract data type LIST.
<beach>
In Common Lisp, () and NIL are the same object.
<beach>
So a reference to a list is a reference to either an atom or to a CONS cell. If it is a reference to a CONS cell, you can definitely modify that CONS cell if you pass the reference to a function. If it is an atom, you can modify that atom if it is the kind of atom that allows modifications.
<dnhester26>
So the equivalent in the article would really be making some struct in lisp which has a slot for a cons?
<beach>
Yes, that's what you do if you want to create (say) a STACK implemented as a list.
<dnhester26>
and list is just a convenience function for making cons cells?
<beach>
Exactly.
<dnhester26>
Hm, I guess we wouldn't loose the convenience functions because that slot int he struct would really be the list, and the struct itself is just for us to hold the reference to the object in case it's empty
<dnhester26>
Ok, thanks
<beach>
Sure.
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<dnhester26>
by the way, there's a service that gives free SSL certificates if you are interested for your website. It's called https://letsencrypt.org/
<ixelp>
Let's Encrypt
<beach>
*sigh* I really suck with web stuff. I wouldn't know what to do with one.
<beach>
Now some people (notably aeth) are often quick to point out that implementations store small objects like fixnums and characters in the pointer itself, so they are not really references to chunks of memory. But those objects are immutable, so there is no way for application code to check whether they are references or not. So the semantics are preserved.
<beach>
Rereading that page, I am reminded that, when I showed the "boat" example to my students and asked them what color x is, they said "it depends!". So I asked "on what?", and they said "how it is implemented!". And I then said, if that is true, then you would not ever be able to split your code into modules, because a person reading the code would have to understand the implementation of each module, in addition to the interface.
<beach>
I mean, technically, my students were of course right, but what I meant was that nobody should ever program in a way that the answer is "it depends".
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<Bubblegumdrop>
gm
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<drmeister>
Does anyone use the MGL-PAX system for documentation? Has anyone gotten the emacs integration to work?
<drmeister>
If anyone has gotten it to work, can you ping me? I want to use MGL-PAX but I'm either doing something wrong or the emacs integration needs some work. Probably the former.
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<Bubblegumdrop>
drmeister I was able to load it
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<drmeister>
Bubblegumdrop: Thanks! Does the emacs integration work for you?
<drmeister>
What happens when you M-. something?
<Bubblegumdrop>
It looks like it. Yes M-. works
<drmeister>
Hmmm
<Bubblegumdrop>
drmeister I did have one slight issue
<Bubblegumdrop>
This isn't common lisp you'd type into your slime repl. but emacs lisp you might type into M-: or ielm
<drmeister>
Right.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I was trying to type (load "mgl-pax.el") at my repl and it was erroring
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'm testing the documentation generation now
<Bubblegumdrop>
M-. works though
<drmeister>
It's emacs elisp - to be put in your .emacs or as I do - in my ~/.emacs.d/init.el file.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I use sly it looks like this depends on slime
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<Bubblegumdrop>
so I installed slime
<Bubblegumdrop>
and did M-x slime
<Bubblegumdrop>
and it works in my slime repl
<Bubblegumdrop>
Yeah I was able to M-. to foo-random::@foo-random-manual (from the DEFSECTION) as well.
<drmeister>
Hmmm. Ok. My emacs setup is a bit complicated - I use evil mode. I think I'll try a vanilla setup. If I have trouble - can I come back to you with questions?
<Bubblegumdrop>
Do you have a lot of stuff in your init.el ? I find I periodically have to nuke mine.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'm also using evil-mode! Yes, you can message me any time. I hang out in your channel #clasp
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'm typically AFK but I know how to use /msg memoserv :)
<drmeister>
Understood.
<Bubblegumdrop>
I'd actually like to get involved in your project some day!
<drmeister>
Oh - thanks. Sorry if I've been distracted - spinning up a company takes a lot of my attention.
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<drmeister>
MGL-PAX looks awesome.
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