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<yitzi>
aeth: intel's 80-bit float was an extended ieee float under the original standard.
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<yitzi>
And like ECL, Clasp now has long double for long-float. So on Linux arm it will be binary128 and on x86 you'll get 80-bits intel floats.
<yitzi>
Once clang++ supports c++23 Clasp will have binary32 for short-float.
<yitzi>
Meant binary16
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<Shinmera>
neat
<Shinmera>
yitzi: might need to update float-features' clasp support, then.
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<yitzi>
Shinmera: sure
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<yitzi>
Shinmera: so float-features:short-float-bits always returns ieee binary16? Not whatever the implementation's short-float actually is?
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<Shinmera>
no, I'm talking about the clasp constants and what, I don't know if they were just aliased like they are on other impls
<Shinmera>
as in, short being same as single, long same as double.
<Shinmera>
and, well, I guess also the bits, if clasp happens to have something that isn't aliased like the other impls
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<yitzi>
The constants will all work as is. Clasp defines them correctly for both cases.
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<aeth>
Personally, I'd rather see something like a double double on 128-bit for long-float on all platforms without hardware 128-bit floats (if you want speed, you're probably going to use double-float or even single-float, anyway)
<aeth>
More consistent than randomly getting a "legacy" float format on some platforms vs others.
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<aeth>
And CL is a language with bignums... so I think it's a language that errs on the side of precision
<aeth>
But the problem here is there aren't enough float types (only 4) for the available platform floats
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<yitzi>
Implementations can have more floats if they want.
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<cow_2001>
10 hours
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<aeth>
Yes, implementations can have whatever floats they want, but half=binary16, single=binary32, double=binary64, long=binary128 (or the double double 128-bit approximation) would be good well-specified semantics to have (though technically, half-float can't be 16-bit because it's designed for unboxed float on < 32-bit implementations with the usual type tags, rather than for the now-standard and now-useful
<aeth>
16-bit float)
<aeth>
With odd ones like the 80-bit extended-precision, the alternate short-floats (16-bit or fewer), decimal floating point, etc., naturally being expressed outside of the core powers-of-2 hierarchy
<aeth>
Even CLISP-style arbitrary precision
<aeth>
although if you support two 16-bit float implementations, or you support both binary and decimal floating-point, the numeric tower kind of breaks down because let's say 'cd' is for deCimal Double... (+ 1cd0 1d0) is what? Which do you coerce to?
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<aeth>
inserting 8-bit/4-bit/80-bit/etc. binary floats in between the common ones would have no issues because it'd still err on the side of contaminating with more precision
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<aeth>
long-float being 128-bit works well with e.g. pi being long-float because except for arbitrary-precision, the rarely needed/supported 256-bit octuple-precision float, and 128-bit decimal floating-point, there's nothing you'd want more than 128-bit binary quadruple-precision floating-point
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<yottabyte>
what linux distro should I use for my vps? there are like 12 options. alma, alpine, debian, arch, ubuntu, kali, ... I'm shying away from arch because I don't want to have to do too much configuration
<yottabyte>
(I ask here because I will be installing sbcl and stuff here)
<aeth>
if you don't want to update-the-major-distro-version every 6 months, go with something stable like Debian, but the cost is that everything is very stale (so you e.g. have to bring your own SBCL, and any other dependencies you need to rely on)
<aeth>
If you don't mind updating the major distro version every 6 months, Fedora's nice. Basically the main alternative to Ubuntu for something between stable-but-stale like Debian and unstable-rolling-release like Arch.
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<aeth>
There are others with a similar release cadence (which you can choose for e.g. desktop use), but you might not see them offered except for Ubuntu and Fedora, which are both near-universal. And I personally prefer Fedora, which prefers upstream, to Ubuntu, which does things annoyingly non-standard sometimes (although on a server it might not matter as much)
<aeth>
The catch is that for SBCL, the main advantage over Debian isn't always there... because Fedora maintainers have to build on every supported arch, and stuff like Power holds back SBCL updates on Fedora sometimes.
<yottabyte>
there isn't a package manager I can just install SBCL from on Debian that'll pull its required dependencies?
<scymtym>
you can install SBCL on debian using the distribution package manager. the packaged SBCL version is very old for some debian versions is the point
<aeth>
Or, alternatively, build it yourself from git (set to checkout the correct release) and then rsync the result over.
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<yottabyte>
omg, that is so beyond me. I could never
<yottabyte>
I would hope the debian coming with this vps is recent enough, if not, I can just upgrade it, and then hopefully the sbcl that comes from the package manager is up to date (enough)
<yottabyte>
I don't really know anything about linux. I guess I will learn more now though... inevitably. I just want it to just work and be simple and easy (cries)
<aeth>
well, the SBCL Linux binary from sbcl.org just works... although maybe it depends on some libraries that are too old in Debian
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<boigahs>
Said binary works great on Ubuntu LTS, which should be around as old as the Debian stable releases?
<boigahs>
Building SBCL is also pretty much just "run build.sh" so you shouldn't have to worry much
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<aeth>
Yes, except that VPSes can be incredibly underpowered in every way, so you'd probably want to build elsewhere and rsync the binary over or something like that. At which point you might as well use the prebuilt latest binary if it's x86-64.
<aeth>
because downloading a file is easier than building and pushing multiple files
<yottabyte>
installed the latest sbcl! it wasn't too bad
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<spdegabrielle>
The Keynote presentation by Hal Abelson and Gerald Sussman at the fourteenth RacketCon is now available at https://youtu.be/_2qXIDO-cWw
<ixelp>
Keynote presentation by Hal Abelson and Gerald Sussman at the fourteenth RacketCon - YouTube
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