jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<NotThatRPG> paulapatience: ping?
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<paulapatience> NotThatRPG: Hi
<NotThatRPG> I realized I never got back to you when you asked about reporting the ASDF issue. Would you mind posting to https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/-/issues
<ixelp> Issues · asdf / asdf · GitLab
<NotThatRPG> Because I have, of course, completely forgotten what you said
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<paulapatience> NotThatRPG: Sure
<NotThatRPG> Thanks!
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<paulapatience> NotThatRPG: Doe
<paulapatience> Done
<NotThatRPG> Great! Appreciate it. I'll have a look when I can. rn I'm being held back by some issues w/ testing infrastructure, but the cl.net folks are helping.
<paulapatience> There's no real rush, it's a trivial fix if I'm right.
<paulapatience> I think it has gone undetected for so long because pathnames are passed directly to :input/:output in uiop:run-program
<paulapatience> I've been writing a wrapper around uiop:run-program, that's why I happened to see the bug
<paulapatience> s/are passed/are usually passed/
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<Bubblegumdrop> nice work ...
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<paulapatience> I will say that the implementation of uiop:run-program and uiop:launch-program is some of the most convoluted code I've ever read. I'm still not sure what half of it does.
<paulapatience> Part of the issue all the feature checks for different implementations
<paulapatience> Part of the issue is
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<paulapatience> In my CLOS-based wrapper equivalent of uiop:run-program, I will wrap each implementation in a separate package. It should be clearer then.
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<jackdaniel> another one is that uiop refuses to rely on the implementation behavior and instead of that it always transits data through its own streams
<jackdaniel> and that's like supper inefficient sometimes
<jackdaniel> say you write (uiop:run-program ... :output *my-stream*), then it calls (impl:run-program ... :output *uiop-vomiting-stream*), and marshalls all data from the vomiting stream to *my-stream*, so data is passed twice
<jackdaniel> I want to believe that there is a sensible reason to do that
<aeth> so you can define a method on the uiop stream?
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<jackdaniel> sensible reason is not necessarily the same thing as a technical desire of the creator ,)
<jackdaniel> the question is not "what can you do with it?", but rather "why?"
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<jackdaniel> for my purposes this run-program does a job: https://turtleware.eu/static/paste/foo.lisp ; with a quirk that not all implementations support :wait nil, so a more sophisticated version could try to spawn a thread to manage such run-program instead; perhaps being able to communicate from a separate thread to a stream is the reason behind uiop's gymnastics?
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<younder> There is a package inferior-shell that can run programs
<younder> Never-mind it uses uiop:run-program as well
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<beach> Hmm, I never noticed this before; the SBCL TRACE function prints symbols with package prefixes upon function entry but without package prefixes upon function exit.
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<beach> Try (defun foo (symbol) symbol) (trace foo) (foo 'hello)
<jackdaniel> this description seems to be incomplete
<jackdaniel> when trace is entered, then the package printer uses is the package FOO is defined in, and when trace returns, the package printer uses is the package user is in
<jackdaniel> i.e
<jackdaniel> CLIM-USER> (cl-user::foo 'cl-user::hello) 0: (FOO HELLO) 0: COMMON-LISP-USER::FOO returned COMMON-LISP-USER::HELLO
<beach> Yes, I see. Thanks. Still an interesting observation.
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<paulapatience> jackdaniel: So, it only transits data through its own streams in some cases. On SBCL and CMUCL on Unix, stream arguments are passed directly to the underlying implementation. On other implementations it passes them through UIOP's stream functions.
<paulapatience> But pathnames are passed to the underlying implementation.
<paulapatience> I think the reason for the streams is that not all implementations support that.
<paulapatience> E.g., I think passing octet streams to some implementations is unsupported, but theoretically with vomit and slurp it would be, because they get converted to files that are then ok.
<paulapatience> But I'm not entirely sure yet.
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<jackdaniel> in any case I've always been sceptical regarding uiop's run-program/launch-program design; I've studied it a little, but that was a few years ago
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<jackdaniel> I wish there was a portable way of specifying by the programmer what is executed under certain optimization levels
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<jackdaniel> s/executed/compiled/
<jackdaniel> but that's more a golden fish wish than a must have, so.. :)
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<paulapatience> The optimization level used by run-program? Or were those two disjoint ideas?
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<edgar-rft> I'm afraid that run-program can't optimize the programs it runs
<jackdaniel> disjoint, just a loose thought inspired by what I'm doing at the moment
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<edgar-rft> but it would be cool to optimize programs just by running them from Common Lisp :-)
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<jackdaniel> I've meant something like (optimize-case ((and (< safety 1) (> speed 3)) nil) ((> safety 2) (check-type x float)) (otherwise (float x))) ; lousy example, I know
<jackdaniel> technially something what compilers already do have for their own inner workings (in ecl it is called compilation policies)
<jackdaniel> and they are named there btw, but hopefully you know what I mean
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<paulapatience> Th
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<paulapatience> I've seen the policy-cond library that does something like that
<paulapatience> It's used in magicl
<paulapatience> (The linear algebra library)
* jackdaniel ported magicl to ecl at some point
<paulapatience> Oh cool
<jackdaniel> as part of a gig from rigetti computing
<paulapatience> I've been keeping an eye on that for when I need to do linear algebra, but the necessity has not arisen
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<NotThatRPG> paulapatience: Thanks for filing those issues.
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<paulapatience> NotThatRPG: My pleasure.
<NotThatRPG> It's really helpful; wish I could fix these things more rapidly...
<paulapatience> I mean, I could submit a PR for both of those if that would help. Is there anything specific to do beyond submitting the PR? Like tests and such?
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<paulapatience> What would be a good adjective describing a type of class whose instances are meant to just hold information? In other words, all slots have only readers (the instances are immutable) and they all have trivial readably printable representations, e.g., #.(make-instance 'class-name initargs...).
<paulapatience> I thought of naming them data-classes, similar to Python's @dataclass decorator. Or plain-class.
<paulapatience> But I'm not entirely satisfied.
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<susam> struct? structure? record?
<aeth> no, structs are structs (defstruct)
<aeth> "record" may work
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