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<Spawns_Carpeting>
Do you guys think maybe quicklisps website should mention that it doesn't authenticate packages as a warning or heads up to users who may have different threat models that normal users
<Spawns_Carpeting>
most people by default are going to assume that the packages are signed or fetched over secure channels
<Spawns_Carpeting>
i am considering asking the maintainer if that would be something they could add to the list of "known issues"
<Spawns_Carpeting>
i think they are actually on this irc sometimes, not sure
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<beach>
The message from heisig about where to meet for the social event might be slightly incorrect. He mentioned Largo de Miguel Bombarda, but that seems to be the street behind the square where we are meeting. The address 190-240 av de Diogo Leite looks better
<beach>
The map heisig supplied disagrees with Google maps. And in principle I agree with him that a free map site is better. But be careful about possibly incorrect information.
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<froggey>
Has anyone else arrived yet? I’m at the address beach has mentioned, The George restaurant
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<Shinmera>
Spawns_Carpeting: Programmers have a weird obsession with MITM. MITM attacks are very hard to do and very rare. It's much easier to do an origin attack, against which neither quicklisp nor any other package delivery system really protects.
<Shinmera>
The lack of SSL is bad, but it's by far not as big a deal as people think it is
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<Spawns_Carpeting>
I agree that it's not really that likely. I don't think lisp packages are really a great target also
<pjb>
Until they are. But the origin itself is suspicious. You can always use the meta data to check thru secure channels (eg. github) to validate the distribution.
<Shinmera>
I mean the origin being the repo the sources are pulled from. If I really hate somebody I could add some code to my libraries to screw em over and I doubt anyone would really notice.
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<Shinmera>
This kinda thing has happened in other ecosystems a bunch, and it's far more likely for it to happen here than a MITM. And there's nothing that can realistically prevent it. If you actually care about security, you have to manually audit everything you put on your computer.
<pjb>
Shinmera: exactly.
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<lagash>
*cough* NPM *cough*
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<hashfunc569>
i'm not understanding the #: convention in (DEFPACKAGE #:MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE #:DOP) vs. (DEFPACKAGE MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE DOP). why use the :#? the behavior seems to be the same
<Xach>
hashfunc569: it's used to get a symbol that's used only for its name.
<mfiano>
#: is a reader macro for "uninterned symbol"
<Xach>
if you use a regular symbol, you could argue it "clutters" some random package by interning unnecessarily. same with a keyword symbol.
<mfiano>
Any other symbol is interned (allocated the first time it is read, and placed in a lookup table, called a package)
<Xach>
using a string can cause trouble with case conversion under some circumstances
<Xach>
i like using an uninterned symbol but other people like other ways
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<hashfunc569>
Xach: mfiano: ok, i think i understand. thanks for the feedback
<mfiano>
uninterned symbols are created anew everytime they are READ
<mfiano>
in this case, in-package takes a "package designator". I'll let you go look up in the glossary what that means.
<hashfunc569>
clhs package designator
<Xach>
It doesn't take a package designator.
<Xach>
It takes a string designator.
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<Xach>
find-package takes a package designator, though i'm a little surprised it doesn't say as much in the spec.
<mfiano>
Ah right, thanks for the correction. I had use-package in my head I think.
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<Xach>
hmm, i must have never looked at the spec for use-package, i didn't realize it took a list designator and not a single argument.
<pillton>
I probably need to think about this more, but the use of symbols for package names seems problematic to me when your package uses the COMMON-LISP package. The whole readtable-case argument seems moot when the COMMON-LISP package and all of its exported symbols are specified to be upper case. One would have to go to a great deal of effort to write code which is invariant to READTABLE-CASE.
<Xach>
Packages are never named by symbols. Symbols are sometimes used to get a string to name a package.
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<Xach>
Often used, even.
<pillton>
Sure, but the name of the package changes as a function of READTABLE-CASE.
<Xach>
Yes. Which is, I think, an advantage.
<pillton>
Well you should write a blog post on it. I can't see the advantages.
<Xach>
pillton: for one, if you make a package with (defpackage "FOO" ...) you might have to refer to it with a package prefix of |FOO|. But if you use a symbol to designate its name, you can write the prefix the same as you wrote the symbol in the definition.
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<Xach>
Now, you could just ignore that and say the code is meant for standard settings, and that's fine too.
<Xach>
There are many ways to do it and you can probably rationalize all of them