jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/> | News: ELS'22 this Monday (2022-03-21), see https://european-lisp-symposium.org
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
mister_m has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
cosimone has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)]
orestarod has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
mister_m has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rgherdt has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
orestarod has joined #commonlisp
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
razetime has joined #commonlisp
<Spawns_Carpeting> did you all know quickliso downloads source code over http with no authentication?
<Spawns_Carpeting> that seems like a very big design flaw
perrierjouet has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
<semz> it's a bootstrapping problem
perrierjouet has joined #commonlisp
<Spawns_Carpeting> i was reading about it, it seems like the issue is that not all lisp implementations provide https functions
<Spawns_Carpeting> couldn't it shell out to curl though, or maybe use gpg and sign all distfiles
igemnace has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
paul0 has joined #commonlisp
<random-nick> you could also implement a pure-cl implementation of tls but that opens a whole new can of worms
perrierjouet has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
perrierjouet has joined #commonlisp
rgherdt has joined #commonlisp
<semz> Quicklisp can be configured to use a proxy, so you could use something like mitmproxy to secure it.
<semz> If I remember correctly, there was also work being done on signature verification, but I don't know the current state of that.
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
amk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
amk has joined #commonlisp
razetime has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<Spawns_Carpeting> thats good to hear semz
Everything has quit [Quit: leaving]
mfiano has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
razetime has joined #commonlisp
triffid has joined #commonlisp
Inline__ has joined #commonlisp
jmpeax has joined #commonlisp
jmpeax is now known as Guest156
Inline has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Bike has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
orestarod has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
razetime has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
igemnace has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
razetime has joined #commonlisp
john__ has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
vats has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
akoana has quit [Quit: leaving]
mzan has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
derelict_ has joined #commonlisp
derelict has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
trumae has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
derelict_ is now known as derelict
semz_ has joined #commonlisp
semz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
rgherdt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
semz_ is now known as semz
amk has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
<Spawns_Carpeting> Do you guys think maybe quicklisps website should mention that it doesn't authenticate packages as a warning or heads up to users who may have different threat models that normal users
<Spawns_Carpeting> most people by default are going to assume that the packages are signed or fetched over secure channels
<Spawns_Carpeting> i am considering asking the maintainer if that would be something they could add to the list of "known issues"
<Spawns_Carpeting> i think they are actually on this irc sometimes, not sure
rgherdt has joined #commonlisp
waleee has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
Guest74 has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
Guest74 has joined #commonlisp
paul0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
paul0 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
lagash has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
beach has joined #commonlisp
<beach> Good morning everyone!
rotateq has joined #commonlisp
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aeth has joined #commonlisp
razetime has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
pranavats has left #commonlisp [Error from remote client]
pranavats has joined #commonlisp
razetime has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
lagash has joined #commonlisp
<semz> Spawns_Carpeting: I forgot to mention: the mitmproxy method is from https://hiphish.github.io/blog/2022/03/19/securing-quicklisp-through-mitmproxy/ which also explains how to set it up in more detail.
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
<semz> Also here's an example of how one could bootstrap HTTPS for Quicklisp via Drakma here: https://semelz.de/posts/quicklisp-with-https.html
<semz> ...strike one of those heres.
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
pve has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<beach> The message from heisig about where to meet for the social event might be slightly incorrect. He mentioned Largo de Miguel Bombarda, but that seems to be the street behind the square where we are meeting. The address 190-240 av de Diogo Leite looks better
<beach> The map heisig supplied disagrees with Google maps. And in principle I agree with him that a free map site is better. But be careful about possibly incorrect information.
nature has joined #commonlisp
Brucio-61 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
MajorBiscuit has joined #commonlisp
wacki has joined #commonlisp
Goheeca has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
beach has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
john__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Goheeca has quit [Quit: Client closed]
rgherdt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rgherdt has joined #commonlisp
beach has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
scymtym has joined #commonlisp
Brucio-61 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[smlckz] has joined #commonlisp
[smlckz] has quit [Changing host]
[smlckz] has joined #commonlisp
beach has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
beach has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
McParen has joined #commonlisp
cosimone has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has joined #commonlisp
razetime has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
Oddity has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lisp123 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
razetime has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has quit [Client Quit]
beach has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
Dynom has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
cage has joined #commonlisp
notzmv has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
<froggey> Has anyone else arrived yet? I’m at the address beach has mentioned, The George restaurant
Inline__ is now known as Inline
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
orestarod has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
yagamisato has joined #commonlisp
amb007 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aeth has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
skyl4rk has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
skyl4rk has joined #commonlisp
anticomputer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
anticomputer_ has joined #commonlisp
mingus has joined #commonlisp
euandreh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
mingus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
euandreh has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has quit [Client Quit]
skyl4rk has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
skyl4rk has joined #commonlisp
MajorBiscuit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
minion has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mzan has joined #commonlisp
Inline__ has joined #commonlisp
specbot has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by specbot1))]
Inline has quit [Killed (zirconium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
Inline__ is now known as Inline
minion has joined #commonlisp
specbot has joined #commonlisp
skyl4rk` has joined #commonlisp
Doraemon has joined #commonlisp
rgherdt_ has joined #commonlisp
amk_ has joined #commonlisp
weechat1 has joined #commonlisp
john__ has joined #commonlisp
jmpeax has joined #commonlisp
sveit_ has joined #commonlisp
jmpeax is now known as Guest9419
pranavats has left #commonlisp [Error from remote client]
skyl4rk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
amk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Spawns_Carpeting has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nulluint has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Guest156 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sirufer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
NeoCron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
yottabyte has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rgherdt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sveit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nulluint_ has joined #commonlisp
sirufer has joined #commonlisp
yottabyte has joined #commonlisp
pranavats has joined #commonlisp
epony has joined #commonlisp
sirufer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
epony has quit [Excess Flood]
nulluint_ has quit [Client Quit]
sirufer has joined #commonlisp
epony has joined #commonlisp
epony has quit [Excess Flood]
epony has joined #commonlisp
semz_ has joined #commonlisp
raeda_ has joined #commonlisp
robin__ has joined #commonlisp
semz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
robin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
raeda has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
pjb has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
knusbaum has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
s-liao has quit [Quit: Client closed]
ns128 has joined #commonlisp
rogersm_ has joined #commonlisp
knusbaum has joined #commonlisp
rotateq` has joined #commonlisp
Noisytoot_ has joined #commonlisp
cosimone` has joined #commonlisp
Lord_Nightmare2 has joined #commonlisp
White__Flame has joined #commonlisp
rogersm has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
krjst has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Lord_Nightmare has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
rotateq has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cosimone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
theBlackDragon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
White_Flame has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
ns12 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Noisytoot has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
ns128 is now known as ns12
kst has joined #commonlisp
theBlackDragon has joined #commonlisp
notzmv- has joined #commonlisp
john__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Lord_Nightmare2 is now known as Lord_Nightmare
Bike has joined #commonlisp
Lord_Nightmare has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amk_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amk has joined #commonlisp
Lord_Nightmare has joined #commonlisp
beach has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
McParen has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
<Guest74> Does anybody have any examples of using swank to control emacs, like opening/closing files?
<dbotton> Guest74, I made a few snippets to test, in a few weeks plan on using in the CLOG Builder
<Guest74> thanks, there's opening.
<dbotton> that and a little M-. action should get you going
<dbotton> shame documentation skimpy
<Guest74> I wish the code was better structured or explained the structure.
<Guest74> I'd prefer examples, don't feel like finding the needle in the haystack.
razetime has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shka has joined #commonlisp
rotateq` has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2)]
rotateq has joined #commonlisp
trumae has joined #commonlisp
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
Noisytoot_ is now known as Noisytoot
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
beach has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
morganw has joined #commonlisp
agrosant has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
agrosant has joined #commonlisp
agrosant has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
agrosant has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
agrosant has quit [K-Lined]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
robin__ is now known as robin
wacki has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
wacki has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
MichaelRaskin has joined #commonlisp
epony has quit [Quit: QUIT]
epony has joined #commonlisp
pjb has joined #commonlisp
waleee has joined #commonlisp
cosimone` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cosimone has joined #commonlisp
weechat1 is now known as Spawns_Carpeting
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
tyson2 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
raeda_ is now known as raeda
mfiano has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
pieguy128 has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
pieguy128 has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has quit [Client Quit]
trumae has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
mon_aaraj has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
mfiano has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
mfiano has joined #commonlisp
notzmv- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
amb007 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
Doraemon has quit [Quit: Leaving]
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
wacki has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
paul0 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ahlk` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
MichaelRaskin has quit [Quit: leaving]
mon_aaraj has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
amb007 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
mon_aaraj has joined #commonlisp
tane has joined #commonlisp
tane has quit [Changing host]
tane has joined #commonlisp
skyl4rk` is now known as skyl4rk
Guest74 has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
cosimone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #commonlisp
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
<Shinmera> Spawns_Carpeting: Programmers have a weird obsession with MITM. MITM attacks are very hard to do and very rare. It's much easier to do an origin attack, against which neither quicklisp nor any other package delivery system really protects.
<Shinmera> The lack of SSL is bad, but it's by far not as big a deal as people think it is
cage has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Spawns_Carpeting> I agree that it's not really that likely. I don't think lisp packages are really a great target also
<pjb> Until they are. But the origin itself is suspicious. You can always use the meta data to check thru secure channels (eg. github) to validate the distribution.
<Shinmera> I mean the origin being the repo the sources are pulled from. If I really hate somebody I could add some code to my libraries to screw em over and I doubt anyone would really notice.
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
<Shinmera> This kinda thing has happened in other ecosystems a bunch, and it's far more likely for it to happen here than a MITM. And there's nothing that can realistically prevent it. If you actually care about security, you have to manually audit everything you put on your computer.
<pjb> Shinmera: exactly.
triffid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Oddity has joined #commonlisp
triffid has joined #commonlisp
notzmv has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
tfeb has joined #commonlisp
tfeb has quit [Quit: died]
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
tane has quit [Quit: Leaving]
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
shka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
trumae has joined #commonlisp
morganw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
morganw has joined #commonlisp
mon_aaraj has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
mon_aaraj has joined #commonlisp
Dynom has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4]
Guest9419 is now known as jmpeax
semz_ is now known as semz
wyrd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rotateq has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2)]
wyrd has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
nature has quit [Quit: leaving]
X-Scale` has joined #commonlisp
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
cosimone has joined #commonlisp
Everything has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
pve has quit [Quit: leaving]
<lagash> *cough* NPM *cough*
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
morganw has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
trumae has joined #commonlisp
akoana has joined #commonlisp
pillton has joined #commonlisp
gxt_ is now known as gxt
trumae has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
aeth has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
triffid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
triffid has joined #commonlisp
kevingal has joined #commonlisp
trumae has joined #commonlisp
orestarod has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
attila_lendvai has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Guest74 has joined #commonlisp
hashfunc569 has joined #commonlisp
<hashfunc569> i'm not understanding the #: convention in (DEFPACKAGE #:MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE #:DOP) vs. (DEFPACKAGE MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE DOP). why use the :#? the behavior seems to be the same
<hashfunc569> *** (DEFPACKAGE #:MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE #:MYPACKAGE) vs. (DEFPACKAGE MYPACKAGE) (IN-PACKAGE MYPACKAGE)
<Xach> hashfunc569: it's used to get a symbol that's used only for its name.
<mfiano> #: is a reader macro for "uninterned symbol"
<Xach> if you use a regular symbol, you could argue it "clutters" some random package by interning unnecessarily. same with a keyword symbol.
<mfiano> Any other symbol is interned (allocated the first time it is read, and placed in a lookup table, called a package)
<Xach> using a string can cause trouble with case conversion under some circumstances
<Xach> i like using an uninterned symbol but other people like other ways
cosimone has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)]
<hashfunc569> Xach: mfiano: ok, i think i understand. thanks for the feedback
<mfiano> uninterned symbols are created anew everytime they are READ
<mfiano> in this case, in-package takes a "package designator". I'll let you go look up in the glossary what that means.
<hashfunc569> clhs package designator
<Xach> It doesn't take a package designator.
<Xach> It takes a string designator.
eddof13 has joined #commonlisp
<Xach> find-package takes a package designator, though i'm a little surprised it doesn't say as much in the spec.
<mfiano> Ah right, thanks for the correction. I had use-package in my head I think.
igemnace has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Xach> hmm, i must have never looked at the spec for use-package, i didn't realize it took a list designator and not a single argument.
<pillton> I probably need to think about this more, but the use of symbols for package names seems problematic to me when your package uses the COMMON-LISP package. The whole readtable-case argument seems moot when the COMMON-LISP package and all of its exported symbols are specified to be upper case. One would have to go to a great deal of effort to write code which is invariant to READTABLE-CASE.
<Xach> Packages are never named by symbols. Symbols are sometimes used to get a string to name a package.
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<Xach> Often used, even.
<pillton> Sure, but the name of the package changes as a function of READTABLE-CASE.
<Xach> Yes. Which is, I think, an advantage.
<pillton> Well you should write a blog post on it. I can't see the advantages.
<Xach> pillton: for one, if you make a package with (defpackage "FOO" ...) you might have to refer to it with a package prefix of |FOO|. But if you use a symbol to designate its name, you can write the prefix the same as you wrote the symbol in the definition.
eddof13 has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<Xach> Now, you could just ignore that and say the code is meant for standard settings, and that's fine too.
<Xach> There are many ways to do it and you can probably rationalize all of them