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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<jeosol>
Good morning beach!
<jeosol>
How are you?
<beach>
I'll answer somewhat on topic: There are just a few days left until final versions of ELS papers must be uploaded, and I am almost done. But I want to know more about how agnostic-lizard works so that I can stick in a paragraph for it in the paper. And I am working on my invited ELS talk, but there is no deadline for that, other than ELS of course.
<beach>
What about you?
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<jeosol>
That's great, I guess you provided some update. Thanks for that
<jeosol>
A bit stressful for me from now and next two weeks as I am moving places/changing houses.
<jeosol>
Regarding ELS, next year, which should be in person, I guess. My project is done now, so i should have more time ahead to write the paper. It's always stressful living it close to deadline then I procrastinate again -- to much work.
<beach>
neominimum: Thanks for reminding me of that paper. I will definitely use it as a source of information.
<beach>
jeosol: Remind me of the project that is now done?
<jeosol>
Yeah, it's an integrated application I was building over last 4-5 years. It mostly for doing physics simulation (via 3rd partly software). The CL does all the process, writing files, submitting jobs (in parallel). It also has several optimization algorithms for making optimal decisions. The last part was getting this to work through HTTP request:
<jeosol>
call hunchentoot server, that then fires the rest of the CL application.
<jeosol>
I apologize if all that is convoluted.
<jeosol>
I have asked questions here over the years from how to layer and organize CLOS classes in large projects to other minute CL parts
<beach>
Right. Thanks for the reminder.
<jeosol>
Hopefully, I will do a better job with a write. I am just setting up demo . Though the thing with the project, a user will normally not interact with the CL side as you just make a HTTP request - at least for the exposed parts
<jeosol>
beach: I am documenting the project now with little write ups (.md files and .py and .cl notebooks)
<jeosol>
beach: you are welcome
<beach>
I see. So the plan is to write a paper about it, and submit to ELS'23?
<jeosol>
beach: I'll definitely use some review from you and the other guys here to get a good paper
<jeosol>
beach: Yes, that's correct. ELS '23
<beach>
Sounds good.
<jeosol>
I had too much on my hands. I actually started it but other commitments just made it difficult to be able to push it through
<beach>
I fully understand.
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<beach>
neominimum: Re-reading that paper, I realize I don't have to include my own analysis of existing code walkers, as MichaelRaskin has a much better overview anyway. So I'll just cite his paper. So thanks again for reminding me.
<neominimum>
you're welcome :)
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<hashfunc803>
is there a way to eliminate the warning when using EVAL on an already defined form?
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<hashfunc803>
the warning: "WARNING: redefining PACKAGE::SOMETHING in DEFUN"
<hashfunc803>
or better yet, getting the return value of EVAL without _actually_ evaluating the form
<beach>
Getting the return value of EVAL without evaluating the form would be undecidable.
<White_Flame>
but that assumes you're not doing DEFUN again
<hashfunc803>
White_Flame: i like that strategy. i could perhaps save the FDEFINITION in a temporary variable and then restore?
<White_Flame>
that would be possible
<hashfunc803>
White_Flame: awesome. i think i'm going to try that
<hashfunc803>
beach: White_Flame: thanks
<White_Flame>
could be a problem when other functions in the compiation unit bind too tightly
<White_Flame>
and would still refer to the old definition, but I'm not an expert on when that happens
<White_Flame>
obviously don't declare it inline either :-P
<White_Flame>
#'foo will also grab the function at its evaluation time, while passing 'foo as a function will look it up on the symbol every time
<White_Flame>
*every time that it's funcalled/applied
<White_Flame>
so there's lots of edge issues depending on what you're doing. It can be much easier to just explicitly use function objects for certain dynamic stituations
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<White_Flame>
eg instead of (defun foo () ...) that gets swapped out, (defvar *foo* (lambda () ...))
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<hashfunc803>
White_Flame: ok thanks, i'll try to keep all of that in mind
<beach>
dbotton: The indentation of the body of your FACTORIAL function is incorrect, and since you are using ZEROP, you might want to use 1- as well.
<beach>
dbotton: The name of the language is written "Common Lisp" and not "common lisp".
<beach>
dbotton: And the name of the general language family is written "Lisp", and not "lisp".
<beach>
dbotton: In an S-expression, the opening parenthesis is usually not followed by a function. It is followed by the name of an operator, and that operator may be a function or something else.
<beach>
dbotton: (list 1 2 3) "is" not a list of three elements, but four. I suggest you be more careful from the start with the distinction between a form and what that form evaluates to.
<beach>
dbotton: And I suggest being more careful about complete sentences.
<beach>
dbotton: "ie" -> "i.e."
<beach>
dbotton: The tortoise doesn't win the hare, it might win "over" the hare.
<beach>
dbotton: Your punctuation is off in several sentences. But it is hard to tell what is deliberate style on your part and what are mistakes.
<beach>
dbotton: It is strange to say "operators and functions" since a function is also an operator.
<lisp123>
Maybe special operators, macros and functions would be better there
<lisp123>
special forms*
<beach>
I think just "operator" is fine. Otherwise, you will introduce too much stuff too early.
<lisp123>
T
<beach>
I don't much like that style of writing, but then, I am not part of the target group for this text.
<lisp123>
Yeah I think its for a different target audience - sometimes the informality helps there (all the above comments are good btw)
<lisp123>
Of all the Lisp authors, I prefer GJS the most
<lisp123>
and yours ;)
<beach>
Thanks. And informal is OK with me for some other target group, but when the informal style is also incorrect, like in Land of Lisp, I can no longer approve.
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<gjvc>
"introduce too much stuff too early." -- this is a very important thing to be aware of
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<hashfunc803>
is there a way to access the field of a currently-being-constructed object?
<pjb>
(let ((name "hashfunc")) (make-person :name name :nickname (subseq name 0 4)))
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<pjb>
hashfunc803: with defstruct: (defstruct (person (:constructor make-person (&key name (nickname (subseq name 0 4))))) name nickname) (make-person :name "hashfunc") #| --> #S(person :name "hashfunc" :nickname "hash") |#
<hashfunc803>
pjb: ok thanks
<pjb>
hashfunc803: or with boa constructors: (defstruct (person (:constructor make-person (name &aux (nickname (subseq name 0 4))))) name nickname) (make-person "hashfunc") #| --> #S(person :name "hashfunc" :nickname "hash") |# or use &optional instead of &aux if you want to be able to pass a nickname.
<pjb>
hashfunc803: in the case of standard-object, you would do that in the initialize-instance or shared-instance method.