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<Guest13>
how can i compile working binary for asahi linux? i'm assuming i won't be able to compile natively cuz of page size. can i compile it in different environment since river works when i was on fedora asahi
<ifreund>
Guest13: I believe you'd have to build a patched version of zig from source on ashai and use that to build river
<Guest13>
aw, i won't be able to compile zig since gentoo wiki said it can take up to 10gig which i don't even have
<ifreund>
there are M1 macs with less than 16 gigs of ram?
<ifreund>
that's insane
<ifreund>
I don't know offhand if that 10gig number is up to date fwiw
<Nickli>
"no one needs more than 8gb of ram" -tim apple
<ifreund>
even if it is, one can probably get by with zram and swap
<Nickli>
atleast the macbook air starts with 8gb until recently
<Guest13>
yeah it starts at 8gig, tim apple moment
<Guest13>
i'll try it with swap then, thanks for the help
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<__toor__>
Can I get screen sharing to work with river? That is will xdg-desktop-portal-wlr work with river? I am seeing an error message from firefox and no dialogue opens up
<__toor__>
"Server is missing xdg_foreign support"
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<ifreund>
__toor__: yes, screensharing works
<ifreund>
xdg_foreign is unrelated to screensharing
<__toor__>
That is great information because then I will just spend more time on this until it works ;-) stuborness is in my DNA it seems
<__toor__>
do I also perhaps need the xdg-desktop-portal-gtk system?
<__toor__>
I suppose -wlr does not provide file dialogue logic, but I was kind of hoping that firefox would provide its own to wayland
<__toor__>
I know the logic is in there but now with the whole xdg- thing it seems it has to be reimplemented somewhere else
<ifreund>
I'm not 100% clear on what all xdp-gtk does
<__toor__>
do you have it installed?
<ifreund>
iirc I needed to install it to make clicking to open links in flatpak applications work
<__toor__>
dbus, xdg-portals, wayland, flatpaks, ... sure is a lot of moving parts here
<ifreund>
yeah, it's kinda terrible
<leon-p>
almost as if the unix philosophy of splitting everything into tiny programs with atomic purposes is atually kinda bad and introduces a ton of avoidable complexity, eh? :)
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<The_Buhs>
I feel like there's a happy medium between full unix philosophy and things like systemd though :P
<leon-p>
reminder that systemd actually is a collection of small utility programs and not a monolith, despite its FUD reputation
<ifreund>
leon-p: I dont think wayland, xdg-portals, dbus, flatpak, etc are at all unix-philosophy
<ifreund>
Unix philosophy is about increased power through compossibility
<leon-p>
the original one is that yes (also something about text through pipes)
<leon-p>
this was more about the current (mis-)interpretation
<__toor__>
here is a unpopular opinion: shared dynamic libraries are bad ;-)
<__toor__>
I think flatpak is a life saver for me. Without it I would have given up this project.
<__toor__>
wayland vs x11... not really that important to me. wayland has a lot of issues and x11 has a lot of legacy. either way there are problems
<__toor__>
I think in general that most things in Linux works great. Until you add desktop experience to it, then everything falls apart
<__toor__>
we used to have /dev/dsp or what it was called... just open that as a file and emit sound data. control it via ioct
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<leon-p>
sure, but that also meant only a single device could emit sound at once
<leon-p>
s/device/program
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<__toor__>
Yey I got it working by installing xdg-desktop-portal-gtk and the gtk+3 package plus a weird mess called gsettings-desktop-schemas
<__toor__>
Now I can open file file chooser in firefox
<__toor__>
back to the 1990s ;-)
<__toor__>
screen sharing still doesn't work but one step forward..
<__toor__>
leon-p: same abstractions possible as with ttys - you mask of /dev/dsp with a mixer. I think this is how esound worked
<__toor__>
every program had their own /dev/dsp that went into a daemon that held the actual /dev/dsp hardware device
<leon-p>
yeah, honestly from a users perspective pipewire sounds nicer and less headache-inducing
<__toor__>
I stopped using pipewire because it made firefox crash
<__toor__>
the author of vifm found the same issue so I know for sure that the rendering loop in firefox got blocked due to pipewire audio logic
<leon-p>
sounds like a firefox bug
<__toor__>
"too modern, I'll revisit it in a few year" kind of thing for me now
<__toor__>
I might revisit that earlier though, now when I am forced to install pipewire and potentially wireplumber as well to get screensharing working
<__toor__>
its not that i think pulseaudio is great, but it does work.
<leon-p>
pipewires routing makes everything look primitive in comparison. especially since it is a drop-in replacement for pulse, jack and alsa
<__toor__>
sure but you now need instead of pulseaudio 3 moving parts: pipewire, pipewire-pulse, and wireplumber.
<__toor__>
for video streaming there is gstreamer, v4l that I anyway will need to deal with so its just piling on complexity
<__toor__>
not to forget bluetooth pairing
<leon-p>
complexity that doesn't interfere with daily usage can be ignored, obsessing about that isn't healthy
<leon-p>
i.e. sure pipewire needs wireplumber and pipewire-pulse, but that just tends to work without issues. a bad example are xdg desktop portals, they basically never work
<__toor__>
Linux kernel itself is a great example of that
<__toor__>
massively complex thing. but it sits in one place, its clear where it is and where the interface lies
<__toor__>
the audio solution is more scattered all around, I am sure it interfaces via dbus as well and the elogind /seatd mess just that I have been able to ignore many parts of it
<__toor__>
in my project now I am trying to cut away everything that isnt required to run a functional desktop experience. mostly to learn tbh...
<__toor__>
but also to some extent because I was tired of other distros breaking and not knowing how to fix it due to the massive complexity
<leon-p>
i think you should also look at the network topology: f.e. wireplumber only interacts with pipewire, so effectively you can treat them as a single entity
<__toor__>
just an idea how basic I am going: my process manager is /etc/inittab ;-)
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<proycon>
How can I retrieve a list of currently active tags via the command line? riverctl doesn't seem to offer something like this?
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<proycon>
ah, river-bedload can do that I see, that'll suffice
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