sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
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<solrize> cc-by for the paper maybe but it looks like they didn't release the VM code! i emailed the guy
<solrize> i'm trying to port this avr-gcc program to sdcc and sdcc barfs at an awful lot of gcc features
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<dh`> this is why even in the embedded world you shouldn't write compiler-specific code without a good reason
<dh`> I mean, good reason is not hard to come by, but I feel like lots of people don't even spend ten seconds thinking
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<solrize> dh`, i think the gcc features were there for a reason and anyway i don't think the sdcc targets are important for this app. next thing after the avr would be a riscv or arm, i.e. with gcc support
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<xentrac> solrize: bummer!
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<solrize> bummer about that avr vm? I haven't heard back from the guy yet
<xentrac> yeah, that they haven't released the software
<solrize> maybe it can be reverse engineered
<xentrac> or you could just write something similar
<solrize> well i'd like to see the vm instruction set
<xentrac> it probably doesn't have any notable innovations not mentioned in the paper
<xentrac> they say they submitted a virtualbox image which I guess would make it possible to reverse-engineer the instruciton set
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<xentrac> yeah, they barely mention it. however, they mention that the MakeCode VM is only 500 bytes, which means that (a) it must implement an extremely simple instruction set, barely more than SWEET16, and (b) it would be relatively straightforward to disassemble
<xentrac> it might be to your advantage not to disassemble it, though, if you want to write something similar and legally license it as free software
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<solrize> the virtualbox image is for the microbit which is an arm
<solrize> xentrac, yeah the question is what instructions to use for maximal code density. it would take a fair amount of expirimentation to figure that out, so i was hoping to see one that had already been done
<solrize> that is also why i tried to compile the avr app for the 8051 to see how much difference it made, but that failed pretty miserably
<xentrac> oh bummer
<xentrac> well, you already saw my notes on elisp, right? and of course on Smalltalk and Forth and the like
<solrize> well i might try again
<solrize> i don't remember seeing the elisp one but elisp bytecode has tons of lisp stuff in it, lisp is garbage collected etc
<xentrac> check out text/microlisp.md in http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua.git
<solrize> i think what happened with the 8051 is that the avr gcc libraries have tons of gcc dependencies, but i think the application itself doesn't have so many. so if i refactor the app a lot which will be necessary anyway, switching compilers will be easier
<solrize> i just figured i didn't really care about sdcc that much because it's all 8 bit targets and the idea of switching from the avr would be to go to 32 bit (or barely conceivably the msp430)
<xentrac> yeah, recompiling avr-libc for 8051 is not gonna work ;)
<xentrac> you'll have to rewrite substantial parts of avr-libc to do that
<solrize> it's not libc it's the include files
<xentrac> well, the header files for avr-libc are part of avr-libc even if they aren't part of libc.a
<xentrac> this is probably off-topic here though. want to take it to #swhack?
<solrize> well i don't know that there's that much else to say about it. i did see that microlisp page and micropython works ok with 32k of ram and can sort of get by with 16k
<solrize> brb
<xentrac> well, I thought the relevant part of microlisp.md was the Elisp bytecode instruction set
<xentrac> a little of which, yes, is related to Lisp
<xentrac> but actually neither of my Elisp examples does any heap allocation or uses car or cdr, so they're really just using Lisp syntax, not the stuff that makes Lisp different from C
<xentrac> well I guess Lisp arrays are indexed by words and C arrays are indexed by bytes ;)
<solrize> you should look at the hedgehog lisp vm
<solrize> thing is these are simple stack machines designed for easy implementation and not too inefficient execution but probably not so great for code density
<solrize> the vm uses about 20k bytes
<xentrac> see, we should really be talking about this on #swhack
<solrize> ok
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