klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<newpy> that seemed to work for the bootloader, but it probably isn't good
<gog> but still safest to build one to a raw elf target
<gog> yeah it just introduces a lot of ways for intractible bugs to sneak in
<newpy> yea I had to play with a lot of flags to get it to work in the first place
<newpy> the tutorial assumed a different env probably
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: GCC Cross-Compiler - OSDev Wiki
<gog> since you have WSL you can just follow the same instructions for linu
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<_eryjus> newpy: since the tutorial was incomplete on the topic, take a look at https://wiki.osdev.org/Brendan%27s_Multi-tasking_Tutorial
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Brendan's Multi-tasking Tutorial - OSDev Wiki
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<newpy> _eryjus I was going to start here: https://wiki.osdev.org/Tutorials
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Tutorials - OSDev Wiki
<newpy> maybe the bare bones tutorial
<eryjus> fair enough
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<ZetItUp> pretty happy how my theme turned out for nano https://i.gyazo.com/cff1a86ae73b426794b2c1b0fd353a8e.png
<ZetItUp> (don't mind the code, i just wrote some stuff to test out the colors)
<moon-child> what's it mean for a stream to be linear?
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<ZetItUp> it was just something i was fiddling with about if the stream should increase itself right after where it started or if it needed a bigger space to increase so the data would continue somewhere else
<ZetItUp> not really sure what to call it, linear or just call it tails or something hehe
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<geist> not bad. which terminal app is that?
<geist> or is that a windows theme on linux?
<ZetItUp> it's GNU nano
<geist> i do like the orange colors
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<ZetItUp> or the actual terminal is WSL under windows
<gog> ooh citrusy
<gog> you got your lemon your lime and your orange
<ZetItUp> im not sure about the digit color though, but i wanted something that sticks out so your eyes can draw to it faster
<gog> i think it's sensible and that numbers should stand out
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<gog> i did it
<gog> sort of
<gog> i'm on the way to doing it
<ZetItUp> doing what? :o
<gog> i have a red/black tree that tracks my virtual address spaces
<ZetItUp> oh cool :D
<geist> noice!
<gog> yeah also took some time poking at various implementations of a gap-finding algorithm and i think i converged on one
<geist> are you storing the used or the unused spots, or both?
<gog> used
<gog> but i guess unused spots could be stored
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<geist> yah dunno if there's any value in doing that, just curious if you found that to work for you
<gog> i don't quite have the algorithm wrote yet, i need to write the part that finds the in-order successor for a given node
<gog> and then the part that uses those to check for the gap
<gog> predecessor and successor*
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<gog> and then rework page fault handling
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<Ameisen> graphitemaster - I wanted to try to implement a 16-bit fixed-point to half-precision float converted for SIMD
<Ameisen> but I think it's only practical with AVX512
<Ameisen> you need to know the leading zeros
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<zid> j`ey: I learned Aa rather than just doing Ab twice, ask me tomorrow if I remember it (the answer will be no, I'll feel guilty then learn it again)
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<j`ey> zid: its Ab backwards!
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<sham1> AbbA
<j`ey> here we go again
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* enyc meows
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* sham1 gives a trout to enyc
* enyc OoooOOOooOOOOooOO
<zid> j`ey: it's not backwards it's mirrored
<zid> Aa: x L' ... Ab: x' L ..
<j`ey> zid: youre left handed?
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<zid> no, jperm is though
<zid> I'd rather do D2 with right hand anyway
<j`ey> I do: x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 x' and x R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R x', which is what most right handers do
<bslsk05> ​jperm.net <no title>
<zid> You can click it to x R' U R' .. though
<zid> maybe I should learn it mirrored as well so I can skip a U/'? :p
<j`ey> optimisation!
<zid> I actually don't like the R version
<zid> I'd rather do L' U than R U'
<zid> or not, maybe I am just familiar, idk
<zid> I should learn one of the G perms probably
<zid> oh nice, I got a sub-minute even after fucking up my oll
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<graphitemaster> Always fun seeing something you wrote make front page of HN
<zid> uh oh
<graphitemaster> Then immediately no longer fun reading the comments as you remember this is HN
<zid> ah I see it
<moon-child> graphitemaster: sounds about right :P
<zid> I bet if this article was about ssize_t vs size_t there'd be fewer people arguing, despite being semantically the same thing
<moon-child> ssize_t isn't guaranteed to be able to represent any negative numbers except -1
<moon-child> so go ptrdiff_t vs size_t
<moon-child> but yeah
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<sonny> If you use directories to prevent name collisions, what is a good way to organize files? It seems like a step away from becomming a database
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<zid> directories
<GeDaMo> Even if you store all your file names in a single index, you can still use an "/a/b/c" form
<zid> yup that's exactly what I was thinking
<zid> I just use them the same way I use underscores in C
<GeDaMo> I feel like there's a system which does this but I can't remember which one
<zid> games_factorio_launch() -> /games/factorio/launch.exe
<zid> it's ultimately an opaque string you pass to open()
<sonny> oh
<sonny> that's clever
<zid> The 'fs' part just maintains a db that lets you do queries like "similar names up to this point"
<zid> aka listing a directory
<sonny> yeah, I like that idea
<bslsk05> ​en.wikipedia.org: Burroughs MCP - Wikipedia
<GeDaMo> "However, since about 1970, MCP internally uses a 'FLAT' directory listing all file paths on a volume."
<sham1> Directories really *are* databases. Well, a good approximation
<sham1> Well, file systems ~ databases. Directories ~~ tables
<sham1> And an inode is a row with an ID which may be referenced from many places via directory entries, the "rows" of directories
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<sonny> sham1 yeah, once I start to organize that data I want to use relations. However I just want to use some simple ideas
<sonny> in practice, it seems like making the filesystem a proper database is complex
<zid> an fs is just a highly specialized db
<zid> so.. go nuts
<zid> make zfs cry
<GeDaMo> I wonder if anyone has tried to use SQLite as a filesystem
<zid> constantly?
<zid> It's literally the best thing to use it for
<zid> modern filesystems are shitty and don't guarentee *anything*
<GeDaMo> I mean on raw disk, nothing underneath
<zid> sqlite attempts to provide ACID
<zid> That's making me tempted to do just that for my OS
<zid> but I imagine 99% of sqlite's "icky code I don't want to touch" is getting ACID semantics on top of POSIX
<zid> look into it for me please GeDaMo
<bslsk05> ​www.sqlite.org: Database File Format
<zid> yea not what I need
<zid> I wanna know what the *code* is like, that implements sqlite's semantics on top of a regular fs
<zid> cus I'll need to rewrite it to not be on top of posix
<bslsk05> ​sqlite.org: OS Interface Object
<zid> clever > GeDaMo!?
<clever> if you provide a struct sqlite3_vfs, and meet the api it defines in those docs, then it will just work
<bslsk05> ​sqlite.org: The SQLite OS Interface or "VFS"
<GeDaMo> Neat! :P
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<bslsk05> ​sqlite.org: Write-Ahead Logging
<clever> and pages like this explain how sqlite implements its journaling ontop of those API's
<zid> sod how it implements it I just need to trick it ;)
<clever> when in rollback mode (https://sqlite.org/lockingv3.html#rollback) it will basically just make a backup copy of every block its about to modify, in the -journal file
<bslsk05> ​sqlite.org: File Locking And Concurrency In SQLite Version 3
<clever> and then it will overwrite those blocks in the main .db file
<clever> and then by clearing a "is valid" flag in the journal, the changes are commited, and the rollback becomes invalid
<clever> but when in WAL mode, i think it instead writes offset+size+payload records to the write-ahead log, and then all readers must parse that, and treat it as an overlay
<clever> so writes are sequential instead of random, and its append-only, until you compact things
<zid> >sod how it implements it I just need to trick it ;)
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<newpy> I'm about to build a cross-compiler
<sortie> Woohoo newpy
<newpy> do I apt install bison, flex, gmp, etc?
<newpy> or is that optional?
<sortie> Yup
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<newpy> sortie, where would you clone binutils git repo?
<sortie> I wouldn't git clone the binutils and gcc repositories. A lot of the build system is generated and generating it yourself is tricky
<newpy> oh ok
<newpy> not sure which part of the cross-compiler instructions I'm supposed to use
<sortie> https://wiki.osdev.org/GCC_Cross-Compiler should have the information you need (haven't reviewed changes to it in recent years)
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: GCC Cross-Compiler - OSDev Wiki
<sortie> https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/binutils/ https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gcc/ ← You're ordinarily going to download the latest stable release. Keep in mind the latest release might not sort last alphabetically.
<bslsk05> ​ftp.gnu.org: Index of /gnu/binutils
<bslsk05> ​ftp.gnu.org: Index of /gnu/gcc
<sortie> Looks like binutils-2.37 and gcc-11.2.0 are the latest releases
<gog> god my toolchain is old
<gog> maybe i should ask my wife if i can boot up a liveusb and compile on her rig :p
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<asymptotically> honey, it's distcc o'clock :D
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<gog> yes
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<gog> maybe she'll let me put a manjaro vm on there
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<gog> just so i know the compilers are matched
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* blockhead scrolls back and finds it amusing to hear someone asking their wife if they can compile rather than asking if he can go out with the guys :)
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<j`ey> blockhead: in this case, both are wives!
<blockhead> D'oh!
* blockhead sorries
<blockhead> still, asking significant other's permission to compile is funny
<j`ey> yes :3
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<geist> fwiw i still cant compile newest gcc on M1 mac. there's some build system work that apparently needs to be done since the final link can't find this or that
<geist> but i think we're due for a gcc 12, maybe the fix is in the tree
<bslsk05> ​gcc.gnu.org: Announcement : An AArch64 (Arm64) Darwin port is planned for GCC12
<j`ey> this is for targetting m1, im assuming youre targetting other stuff, but it still probably means some work has gone in to make sure it compiles!
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<geist> no i mean compiling on mac arm
<geist> sorry, wasn't clear. there's some build system work that needs to be done to get it to link right on macos arm
<geist> also i finally pulled the trigger and just ordered myself a new m1 macbook pro. happy birthday me
<j`ey> nice!
<geist> that aside, you can build and run x86 mac compilers just fine on M1, and they're fast enough, so it's not a huge biggie
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