klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<geist> yah and i have a few encrypted storage devices that i have to manually log in and remount
<gog> encryption? pffff
<gog> :p
<zid> I have to re-add my keys to pagent idk how to launch it with key files pre-added
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<heat> greeeeeeeetingsssssss
* kazinsal looks at his profiler, looks at his throughput, and considers throwing everything out and starting over
<Mutabah> Go away heat. (Jokes - It was 28C at 8:30 AM, far too hot)
<heat> i am very sadge
<heat> can we hit 100 likes
<heat> kazinsal, imagine having a profiler
<kazinsal> despite being fairly sure I've added profiler start/stop calls to everything in the chain of "packet comes in" through "packet goes out" I'm somehow missing about 350 ms of time per second
<kazinsal> it may actually be easiest for me to just write a new kernel core and then start sticking modules back into it
<heat> starting over is probably a bad idea
<Mutabah> Dump the start/end points and look for a gap?
<kazinsal> yeah, I'm going to have to eyeball the entire chain through
<heat> when in doubt just add function tracing and trace that
<heat> (if you're not using C++ that is, i've encountered some weird issues with templating and whatnot with the compiler's function entry/exit tables)
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<Clockface> when i use a label for something i defined with dx in NASM, does it use an offset or absolute location?
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<Clockface> i think its offset but i want to make sure before i waste my time on something where it is relevant
<Mutabah> It's the absolute location
<Mutabah> unless you annotate the reference with `rel`
<Clockface> i see, thank you!
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<klange> I finally tracked down the issue that was preventing ToaruOS 1.x from running in copy.sh/v86
<bslsk05> ​copy.sh: Virtual x86
<klange> PIC initialization issue I've only seen in the aforementioned emulator
<j`ey> does 2.0 work? I was planning on trying toaruos on that site a few days ago, but didnt yet
<klange> v86 does not do 64-bit and 2.0 is 64-bit only.
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<j`ey> ah
<klange> Hence why I went downt his rabbit hole with old 1.x code :)
<klange> Anyway, that fix alongside disabling the crusty IDE driver by default and not compressing ramdisks (it was taking multiple minutes to run my gzip decompression code), v86 can boot ToaruOS 1.14 to a working GUI
<j`ey> nice!
<klange> And it actually runs okay; not quite TCG, but better than Bochs. Smooth mouse movement! Application startup is terrible, though.
<klange> I'm probably not going to mark off a release of the old branch, but the CI builds are still working: https://github.com/klange/toaruos/actions/runs/1687557640
<bslsk05> ​github.com: boot: disable ATA drivers by default · klange/toaruos@998d586 · GitHub
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<j`ey> i had fun booting the old windows and stuff
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<zid> that page is neat
<zid> I don't have a graphics driver for it though
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<gog> zid: multiboot?
<zid> mutiwho
<gog> how are you booting this?
<zid> yea it's multiboot
<gog> ah ok
<gog> neat
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<heat> im sooo close to getting a rustc target for my OS
<heat> the worst part of fiddling with rustc is the wait
<zid> heat: How can I Live, Laugh, Love in these conditions!
<heat> it's like llvm but slightly better
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<heat> hmmm the compiler is far from perfect but its a start
<heat> still lots of config options I haven't figured out + I'm not building llvm-project together with rust which I think is making life a bit more difficult for me
<heat> + I need to start keeping my libc crate patches in github
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<zid> geist: Got a convo going on elsewhere about a hard drive..
<zid> ..36GB 10krpm scsi drive
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<bslsk05> ​www.theregister.com: Open source isn't the security problem – misusing it is • The Register
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<sham1> Straight fax
<gog> literally pay me to write code. sounds reasonable
<gog> s/write/maintain
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<geist> zid: yah i eventually gave up on it. after a few hours the drive started generating a ton of reseek errors
<geist> dunno if that's just a bunch of bad sectors i need to map around or if it's starting to die
<geist> i have more 36GB 10k drives i got a few years back from ebay but they're all SCA and harder to connect to
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<geist> so i started over with a 200GB IDE drive and it's all good now
<zid> he's moaning his is stupidly hot
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<geist> well that's true too
<geist> they pull i think a fair amount of power
<geist> and noisy
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<geist> it is however sad to see that a slightly newer IDE drive, and definitely almost anything in the SATA era will outperform a 10k SCSI drive in most tasks
<geist> seek time is probably better, and perhaps if it's mega loaded the TCG will kick in and beat IDE stuff
<geist> but by the time SATA comes along and you have NCQ and sata drives end up with faster transfers and lots more onboard cache. nope
<gog> synthesis: 10k RPM SAS
<geist> yah
<geist> that being said this particular scsi drive is only 40MB/sec scsi, so it pretty much saturates that
<geist> right next to it i have a IDE drive on ultra DMA 33 so it gets roughly the same total throughput
<geist> it's one of those old brain cells that takes a while to dislodge. i grew up always with the knowledge that SCSI > IDE for a lot of reasons and 10k > *, etc
<geist> whcih was true for a time, but time moves on. however you still have this residual burn-in on your brain where that truth was hard for such a long time
<gog> server-class stuff definitely
<gog> where they had PCI-X
<gog> but 32-bit 133MHz PCI has a pretty hard throughput limit
<geist> oh that's true this particular symbios card is plugged into a 33mhz pci bus
<geist> so the 40MB wont really be achieved
<gog> yeah even slower
<geist> kinda a bummer it's too much of a mess to actually write a parallel scsi driver nowadays
<geist> but that's a particular mess you dont want to dive into. lots of partially documented chipsets with a lot of work to make them go
<geist> like a complicated version of wanting to write drivers for all the legacy PCI IDE chipsets. theres so many of them
<geist> i remember working with the BeOs symbios 875 driver a bit back in the day. it was kinda interesting: you loaded firmware onto its little cpu and based on what you loaded it would handle the low level details of marshalling bits across the wire and moving things around in memory
<gog> that'd be the kind of thing the BeBox shipped with right?
<gog> high-performance workstation hardware
<geist> not really that exotic nowadays, but for something in the 90s it was pretty advanced. was like an 8051 + a bunch of additional opcodes
<geist> had a little assembler, etc
<geist> yah bebox iirc has a symbios and an IDE chipset
<geist> you could plug hard drives into either
<gog> BeOS was too good for this world
<heat> how complex is scsi?
<heat> i've only seen it in google cloud platform but that's obviously a really good thing to support (they use virtio-scsi vs virtio-blk)
<kingoffrance> does that mean it needs a haikeulogy? bitrot to bitrot / it was too good for this world / the stream has moved on
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<geist> scsi command set itself is pretty straightforward. cleaner than ATA for sure
<geist> but it is transportless so there are a bazillion ways to shove it over things
<geist> and it wont die, it keeps getting resurrected in new forms
<heat> completely unrelated: llvm compiled with thin LTO isn't actually that slow to compile
<heat> I wonder why sata driver kind of converged into scsi in Linux. or is that just /dev/sda nonsense and they share nothing?
<heat> i was thinking that maybe you could map USB mass storage and ATA commands onto SCSI commands and be done with it
<heat> ah yes, the kernel's libata emulates scsi
<heat> wonder if that dedupes code or something
<heat> maybe the logic really is similar between these interfaces
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<gog> heat: afaik it is that the logic is very similar
<gog> idk if i'm misremembering but SATA uses a protocol not dissimilar to ATAPI which is basically SCSI command set pushed over ATA
<gog> which is why the PATA CDROM driver needs SCSI
<gog> and exposes it as a scsi device to /dev
<heat> no SATA uses both ATA and ATAPI
<gog> ah ok
<heat> the big difference is that ATAPI is a packet-oriented interface
<gog> yes
<heat> right now I don't even share ata code between IDE and AHCI drives, I kind of duplicate it kind of
<heat> my error handling is also crap because of that but yeah, works for my simple use case
<heat> i need to set a reminder to buy the fuchsia toolchain team a beer if I ever meet one of them
<heat> freakin life savers
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<gog> will you buy me a beer too?
<heat> hmmm depends on the beer
<heat> if its cheap, why not
<heat> guinness? yeah no you better start working on toolchains
<gog> how about a 12pack of genessee
<gog> $6
<heat> i dont endorse yank beer
<gog> ok gull then
<gog> icelandic domestic :p
<gog> a few tall boys should do the trick
<gog> 199isk at vínbuðin
<heat> "enjoyed by Icelanders since March 1st 1989, when the 70 year beer prohibition in Iceland was lifted."
<heat> wow
* blockhead scrolls up ... guiness is "yank beer" now? :o
<heat> genesee is
* blockhead understands now
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<zid> guinness is no-potato beer
<klange> need I remind everyone that this is #osdev ;)
* blockhead sorries
<klange> zid: v86 emulates a Bochs graphics adapter
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<zid> weird, why it no work then
<zid> cus that's the only graphics adapater I *do* support
<klange> Do you implement the MMIO interface?
<zid> yea
<klange> I suspect it only does the portio interface.
<zid> ah
<klange> which, for what its worth, bochs itself only does the portio interface; the mmio one is a QEMU invention
<klange> ToaruOS 1.x does the portio stuff, 2.0 supports both and presents them as different 'drivers'.
<zid> wouldn't take long to hack in if I cared to at least
<zid> (as in, defining a macro)
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