klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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* kazinsal cheers
<kazinsal> bright red angry TEST FAILURE on this server diagnostic means I get to throw this back at Cisco TAC and go "I told you the CPU was fucked"
<blockhead> non-working CPU is reason to cheer?
<Mutabah> it's somebody else's problem
<kazinsal> it is when you've been fighting with the vendor for months
<blockhead> aha! Understood!
<Affliction> Well, dealing with cisco TAC, good luck having them take anything less
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<kazinsal> yeah, I work for a cisco gold partner and it's amazing how much shit they put us through to get stuff that isn't like, a phone replaced
<kazinsal> like, come on guys, we sell eight figures of your hardware per year. give us a break on RMAing a friggin BE6K
<heat> me: ports rust
<heat> rust the day after: hey guys new version
<heat> fml
<klange> I think gcc 11 released right around when I got 10.3 all set up.
<klange> How I know I'm really unimportant... no one has bothered to add toaru to autotools.
<klange> Wikipedia rules. If I do it, it's pretentious and self-aggrandizing, so someone else has to.
<heat> yeah same
<heat> sortie told me to add it but I dont feel comfortable adding my own OS to a list of OSes
<heat> i wish upstream would take my OS's patches
<heat> i'd never need to maintain a patch again
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<klange> Especially with all the stuff using autoconf where the only change I ever need to make is adding another switch case...
<heat> those are annoying but not the worst IMO
<heat> the worst is stuff like LLVM where you need to add your OS everywhere (code, build system, whatever) and things break slightly every other release so you can't reuse the same patch
<heat> .rej files everywhere
<klange> Yeah, gcc patch updates are not fun which is why I was on, eg, 4.6 for a very long time, then 6.4...
<klange> And 10.3 only happened for the new kernel since I had to configure for a new architecture anyway...
<heat> and then the bulk of my LLVM patch (sanitizer stuff) is kind of applicable to GCC's libsanitizer and kind of not because GCC doesn't really use the latest LLVM release's sanitizer code
<heat> and they apply some really weird patches to it, which I can't find
<heat> so I end up kind of needing to maintain two huge patches of kind of the same code
<heat> brilliant, 10/10
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<klys> if anyone here is using xen, I might like to talk it over with you.
<klys> I have a ridiculous qubes setup that works to a point
<klys> and am planning on using it perhaps without all the python
<klys> also, running qemu with xen from a practical standpoint might interest someone less familiar
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<kazinsal> xen is one of those things I still haven't actually played with
<kazinsal> and I don't really have any hardware to install it on unfortunately
<klys> also if someone is barely interested, perhaps a good first step would be putting xen in a vm testbed. https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Nested_Virtualization_in_Xen#QEMU: this page shows to run qemu with a couple of options.
<bslsk05> ​wiki.xenproject.org: Nested Virtualization in Xen - Xen
<klys> I've been looking for the options actually
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<gh555222> are there any circumstances in which using a cross compiler would be bad? I'm new to the principle of cross compiler and was mostly learning from here: https://wiki.osdev.org/Why_do_I_need_a_Cross_Compiler%3F#Problems_that_occur_without_a_Cross-Compiler
<bslsk05> ​wiki.osdev.org: Why do I need a Cross Compiler? - OSDev Wiki
<sham1> I can't think of any negatives from using a cross-compiler
<GeDaMo> As long as it generates correct code for the target there shouldn't be any problems
<GeDaMo> Machine code is machine code :P
<sham1> Not really
<gh555222> GeDaMo: from what I read it looks like the biggest problems come out as the project gets bigger
<gh555222> mostly the need for platform-dependent compilation switches that may need to be different between platforms (a cross-compiler would I guess solve this by being the "one true" compiler)
<sham1> Yeah, you can customise the cross-compiler in ways that you mightn't be able to with a non-cross-comper
<gog> the thing that happens when you use the host compiler is that it might pull symbols from host libraries. -ffreestanding and -fnostdlib prevent that mostly
<gog> but the best guarantee against any code that depends on host libraries is a cross compiler
<zid> -nostdlib, no f
<gog> yes
<sham1> Well, a generic cross compiler. One could still build a cross compiler for Linux and still be wrong
<zid> a cross compiler is no different to any other compiler, anyway, it's just whose machine ends up running it
<gog> yes
<zid> Simpler example: nasm is nasm, regardless of whether you compile it for linux or windows, it still functions the same and outputs the same shit.
<gh555222> isn't it still somewhat likely 3rd parties with limited quality assurance would write assembly code depending on the host platform in the absence of a cross compiler/assembler?
<zid> I have no idea what *any* of that sentence means
<zid> structurally, semantically, syntactically
<gh555222> if a cross compiler prevents issues related to host-platform dependency
<gh555222> wouldn't using a portable compiler pose similar issues to not using a cross compiler?
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<zid> define 'portable compiler'
<gh555222> you mentioned 'nasm'
<zid> am I having a stroke
<gh555222> okkkk, I think i've overstayed my welcome
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<zid> no I just genuinely
<zid> okay
<gog> :|
<gog> this is osdev, who does QA?
<sham1> You could have just said that nasm is a cross compiler. It's not totally true, but it's correct-ish
<zid> why, in response to *what* lol
<zid> I genuinely have 0 clue what any of his sentences meant
<sham1> To the portable compiler question.
<kingoffrance> portable: someone else already wrote the assembly, or interfaced with the platform-dependent parts, to provide an illusion
<kingoffrance> i find that type of definition works best :)
<gog> i write low-quality assembly maybe they meant me
<sham1> I think what they meant was to ask "why doesn't one need a nasm cross compiler"
<zid> I don't understand that either
<klange> I consider being portable more of a measure of how possible it is to port something
<zid> same klange
<sham1> zid: well then you're lost
<zid> I knew that already sham
<klange> So, a compiler that emits assembly directly and is very tied to the format is not portable because porting it requires rewriting essentially all of it
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<kingoffrance> i got very portable code. compiles everywhere. 1000 dummy /no-op backends yet to be implemented. 100% portable, 100% nonfunctional
<zid> also in assemblers/compilers you have portable in the sense of retargetable, on top
<zid> two axes of portable
<gog> euclidian portability
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<zid> I thought that was cartesian
<zid> I am not a math though
<gog> oh
<gog> it is
<gog> euclidian is 3d
<sham1> R^n in general
<zid> is cartesian cognate to cartography?
<gog> no it's cognte to René Descartes
<sham1> The D!
<zid> right, but does the des cartes mean "the maps" :P
<gog> maybe it was a nickname he gave himself because he love map
<GeDaMo> # Old Descartes was a drunken fart, 'I drink therefore I am' # :P
<zid> could be
<zid> gog thebutter
<kingoffrance> i thought atlas was in charge of atlases
<gog> i do love butter. on a bagel
<sham1> Butter tends to do that
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<zid> Got me a kilo of finest ungogged butter right from the port
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<sham1> s/ungogged/ungoogled/
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* geist yawns
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<zid> I accidentally the hot
<zid> My medcine bottle of chilli extract got a little bit excited when I added some
* gog slides a coffee to geist
<geist> just a little. going into the doc for a yearly checkup so been fasting since last night
<geist> but a little bit of black coffee is okay
<geist> but gonna be so hungry in a little bit
<gog> heh when i went the other day i had to run to the clinc from the bus stop to not miss my time. my bp was a little elevated
<GeDaMo> My aunt is a nervous personality, she has to take her own bllod pressure at home because just going into the doctor's waiting room sends it through the roof :P
<geist> yah there's some effect of doc offices where BP is generally elevated due to doc anxiety
<geist> yah
<gog> yeah i think i have that too
<zid> I don't care about doctors, receptionists are the problem
<gog> ok g2g see a gal about a dog
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<heat> hell
<heat> o
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<heat> if I already take a hit acquiring a lock (with atomics) is doing an atomic operation while holding a lock as expensive as it usually is?
<heat> example: lock a spinlock, atomically increment a refcount, unlock
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