klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<blockhead> zid: that cat has weird eyes?
<kazinsal> and/or is trippin balls
<zid> It's not the eyes I am worried about
<kingoffrance> :/
<kingoffrance> golden eggs are eyes, for von neumann cats </lisp>
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<bslsk05> ​thehackernews.com: Chinese Hackers Spotted Using New UEFI Firmware Implant in Targeted Attacks
<blockhead> so ... anyone using bios & MBR is unaffected?
<klys> how to patch tianocore ovmf and reboot a vm
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<kingoffrance> yes, saved by the anti-bell
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<kingoffrance> early worm gets the bird :)
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<klys> running simulated 86-dos v1.00 now
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<geist> happy weekend everyone
<GeDaMo> Hi geist :)
<geist> hiya!
<vdamewood> pika, pika, geist.
<zid> weekend is cancelled sorry
<vdamewood> No, it was cancelled yesterday. It's still on today and tomorrow.
<zid> nope, it's thursday today
<bslsk05> ​'Get Down Saturday Night' by Oliver Cheatham - Topic (00:06:30)
<geist> zid is gaslighting us into thinking it's thursday
<vdamewood> It's gotta be Thursday somewhere. Isn't that how timezones work?
<geist> good question: can you start a country somewhere and then just delcare that your time zone is -72 hours or so
<geist> something, and then set up a private banking system on it
<geist> so that you can still pretend it's thurs/friday throught he weekend and say the banks are open and stocks are trading?
<zid> You can do what you like, the question is how many other people respect it
<zid> You have to convince that one guy who maintains the timezones package
<geist> well, i do wonder if there's some sort of offiicial international rules that say timezones are only valid -12 ... + 12
<geist> or something
<GeDaMo> Stock trading happens outside normal hours anyway
<vdamewood> geist: No, since there are currently countries outside that range.
<geist> oh yeah?
<geist> around the time zone line they might go +13 or something?
<clever> yeah
<vdamewood> Up to +14
<geist> well there you go
<bslsk05> ​en.wikipedia.org: Kiribati - Wikipedia
<clever> because you dont want a country just a dozen km away, to be 24 hours in the past
<geist> i have asked the internet and they have provided
<clever> having them 1 hour in the future is simpler
<bslsk05> ​www.timeanddate.com: Time Zone Map
<bslsk05> ​'The world's silliest time zones' by Jay Foreman (00:06:23)
<geist> 20 minutes into the future
<geist> (if anyone gets that particular reference you're awesome)
<vdamewood> That YouTube video is a must watch.
<bslsk05> ​'The Art of Noise with Max Headroom - Paranoimia (Official Video)' by Art Of Noise (00:03:25)
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<vdamewood> It's kind of amusing how many Sci-Fi movies, shows, and books take place in the past now.
<vdamewood> Back to the Future takes place entirely in the past.
<GeDaMo> There's still Futurama! :P
<geist> yah and dune has a nice amount of padding in their timeline
<clever> was going to mention starwars, but it was in the past from the start wasnt it?
<geist> battlestar galactica too
<vdamewood> clever: "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away"
<clever> vdamewood: exactly
<vdamewood> Star Trek now has two different conflicting descriptions of how the 90s went.
<geist> sigh. damn windows backup
<geist> the file backup thingy in windows always seems to fall over after a few weeks
<clever> vdamewood: but dont they have the timetravel to blame? and those are technically 2 timelines that are both canon?
<geist> you set it up, add the folders you want, etc
<geist> and then go back a month later and it has run into some unspecified error 5 days ago. no alert, no warning
<geist> subsequent backups just silently fail until you wipe out the database and start over
<geist> on like cycle 5 of this now
<vdamewood> clever: It's never explained like that.
<clever> geist: sounds like a perfect backup solution, designed to ensure data loss!
<vdamewood> clever: In TOS the 90s is dominated by the Eugenics Wars. In Voyager, it's like it was in 1996 (when the episode in question aired). Tom Paris (the 20th century nerd) acted as if everything there was to be expected.
* vdamewood hugs his Time Machine
<vdamewood> Oh hey, that comment works for both threads.
<clever> vdamewood: i was thinking about the most recent reboot, wasnt aware of things not matching up between tos and voyager
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<clever> ive not seen much of TOS
<vdamewood> Yeah, in TOS Khan was from the 1990s.
<clever> in the timeline i remember, wasnt khan created by soon?
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<geist> i dont think khan and soong were related
<geist> though possible they got connected later, i guess. it's the inevitable outcome when a fictional universe is created with a finite number of set pieces
<geist> eventualyl some writer will try to connect the two
<bslsk05> ​memory-alpha.fandom.com: Arik Soong | Memory Alpha | Fandom
<geist> turns out everyone is related to everyone else, or has interacted with. creates a closed universe
<geist> star wars universe is seriously corrupted by this at this point
<bslsk05> ​memory-alpha.fandom.com: Khan Noonien Singh | Memory Alpha | Fandom
<bslsk05> ​memory-alpha.fandom.com: Noonian Soong | Memory Alpha | Fandom
<gog> ENT has an episode where one of Noonien Soong's ancestors was dabbling with human augments to disastrous consequences
<clever> geist: their names are pretty similar....
<geist> yah you're probably right
<clever> yeah, maybe i was mixing that ancestor up with soong
<geist> oh there's probably some backstory like noonian soongs great great great great etc was some eugenics guy in the 80s, etc
<geist> but like i said i dont think they *have* to be related, but that's how writing works. it's 'neat' to try to connect two unrelated things
<gog> also played by brent spiner
<geist> haha
<GeDaMo> Yeah, that's aArik Soong
<gog> ah ok yes
<geist> but honestly watching brent spiner play different characters is fun, so i give that a pass
<gog> he's really an excellent actor
<geist> totally, bummer he never really got out of that particular niche
<gog> star trek will do that
<gog> also we need to catch up on discovery. we finished the expanse so our sci-fi fix has gotta come from somewhere
<clever> the ENT episode https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Augments_(episode) is also linked from the wiki
<bslsk05> ​memory-alpha.fandom.com: The Augments (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom
<clever> ive not started discovery yet
<zid> I'm reading terrible isekai light novels, it's awful, you should all try it
<clever> but i have caught up with picard
<clever> zid: `in the land of leadale` reminds me of one of the best arcs in sao
<zid> that's airing as an anime rn
<clever> yep
<gog> gotta say i was slightly disappointed with the finale of the expanse
<gog> they left a huge loose end hanging and idk if there's a spin-off coming or what
<zid> I watched the first series of the expanse I think
<zid> it was.. very very generic
<clever> gog: yeah, it ended too quickly, and left so many loose ends
<gog> it gets so much better
<clever> gog: and just started more plot threads
<zid> "living in spaaace, everything's a bit fasciiiist, la la la"
<gog> it hits its stride around season 3
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<gog> when it moved to amazon originals from syfy
<zid> american TV shows being hand to mouth in terms of renewels is why you get that fucked up plot arc cthulu
<GeDaMo> I haven't seen it but the Foundation TV series doesn't sound a lot like the book
<zid> they have no idea where it's going to end or when so they just have to keep doing mini arcs and threatening an overall plot
<GeDaMo> books
<zid> It is nothing like the books
<zid> It has.. some of the same characters, sorta?
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<GeDaMo> Ah yes, I know the sort of thing :P
<clever> zid: and its not isekai, but `akebi's sailor uniform` is currently airing and just looks amazing
<zid> Akebi-chan no Sailor-fuku
<zid> guess we know clever's taste
<clever> zid: like, somebody accidentally gave it a movie level budget
<zid> Someone did that last year with Wonder Egg Priority
<zid> And it started off *extremely* strong
<clever> yeah
<zid> ...then completely fucked it all up in the last few eps
<clever> just watch the link i pasted
<zid> super cub from a few months ago was also pretty as hell
<zid> I don't watch SoL really, except for biyori
<zid> cus renge
<clever> super cub was basically just an extended comercial, lol
<zid> It was La Mulana, but as an anime, and about super cubs instead of the MSX
<clever> zid: but ragnastrike angles, was even more of a comercial, lol
<clever> each "episode" was only 30 seconds long
<clever> and it was for a mobile game
<zid> pui pui molcar is the only anime worth watching anyway
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<vdamewood> geist clever: The names are similar due to real-world reasons and have nothing to do with each other in-universe.
<vdamewood> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_characters_(N–S)#S, Rodenberry was trying to get back in touch with a long-lost friend.
<bslsk05> ​en.wikipedia.org: List of Star Trek characters (N–S) - Wikipedia
<vdamewood> (Scroll down to Noonien Soong)
<geist> ooooh that's right. i forgot about that
<vdamewood> Khan is supposed to be a Sikh. Singh is a name with heavy association with Sikhs.
<clever> ah
<clever> zid: heh, this just came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkSqm8BI9ek
<bslsk05> ​'Isekai is Changing' by Manime Matt (00:08:20)
* vdamewood gives gog a fishy.
* gog chomps fishy
<clever> vdamewood: i'm not sure why, but i still have a distinct memory of khan's creator being banned from genetics, and trying to start over at creating the perfect life-form with cybernetics
<zid> I don't watch youtube videos about anime
<zid> I'm incredibly not interested in some gen-x'ers hot take :P
<GeDaMo> clever: that's Arik Soong again
<vdamewood> clever: That *did* happen with Soong's ancestor in Enterprise.
<GeDaMo> But he didn't create Singh, he stole some augments and raided them hinself
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<vdamewood> Arik is the ancestor?
<GeDaMo> Yeah
<clever> vdamewood: ah, and i was probably just missing the ancestor bit
<clever> they have always been bad at putting a specific clear date on episodes
<clever> so its hard to tell how far apart ENT and TNG are
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<vdamewood> clever: Enterprise is about 100 years before TOS.
<GeDaMo> And Discovery is about 10 years before TOS
<gog> to start with
<gog> :p
<GeDaMo> Spoilers! :P
<gog> sorry
<GeDaMo> It's OK, I've seen it :P
<gog> i thought so
<GeDaMo> There's going to be a series where Pike takes over the Enterprise, I can't remember what it's called
<GeDaMo> Ah, Strange New Worlds
<gog> i want more lower decks
<GeDaMo> There's also The Orville
<vdamewood> I haven't seen Discovery.
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<pwng> Hey all
<gog> howdy
<pwng> Can someone tell me what are they using to debug RISC-V inside QEMU? Every version I tried for GDB is problematic in someway...
<pwng> even the artefacts available on https://github.com/riscv-collab/riscv-gnu-toolchain/
<bslsk05> ​riscv-collab/riscv-gnu-toolchain - GNU toolchain for RISC-V, including GCC (623 forks/1426 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
<pwng> oh great so that's working for you
<j`ey> pwng: bslsk05 is a bot
<pwng> oh thanks:D
<gog> where's our risc-v experts when we need em
<pwng> so I'll say what goes wrong for me in case someone can help:
<gog> i'm just an x86_64 scrub
<pwng> First, I was using regular `-ggdb` to compile my sources, but printing the value of anything resulted in: "dwarf2_find_location_expression: Corrupted DWARF expression."
<pwng> I read somewhere that `-gdwarf-2` is the way to go, so I use that now
<pwng> now the problem is: the execution flow is altered in an unreasonable way. Line numbers are all messed up and I find the "currently executing lines" very irrational (e.g. in functions I never call)
<pwng> Also, I can't find any symbols to print. When I write `print <tab>` I get the source files as suggestions - but not a single variable or a function name
<pwng> As a side: Using `riscv64-unknown-elf-gdb` at first resulted in the following error: `error while loading shared libraries: libpython3.8.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file`
<vdamewood> There are RV experts?
<zid> just build all the latest from source, easiest
<pwng> I have gcc and binutils built from source but unfortunately they didn't have GDB, and that was before I knew about the repository>:(
<zid> I meant gdb and qemu
<zid> they need to speak the same proto
<zid> gcc and gdb is less relevent, unless your gcc is significantly newer than your gdb
<pwng> I'm currently using gcc and gdb from the same release so probably they should work together fine
<pwng> I'll build gdb and give it a try, many thanks
<zid> 'same release'?
<zid> they're sep. projects
<bslsk05> ​riscv-collab/riscv-gnu-toolchain - GNU toolchain for RISC-V, including GCC (623 forks/1426 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
<pwng> they have gcc and gdb (among everything else) packed together
<zid> so there are riscv things you want that aren't upstream?
<pwng> I'm not entirely sure - I can't pin the problem exactly
<zid> Why use a fork, if you weren't having issues?
<zid> sounds like you jumped to a fork you don't understand, and are having issues with it
<geist> interesting
<geist> i think that particular thign is pretty up to date, it's mostly a prebuilt thing
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<pwng> I never had a functioning GDB so I didn't have something working and jumped to something else
<geist> what host platform are you on?
<pwng> Building GCC and Binutils from the main sources and defining risc-v as the target doesn't build GDB as well, so I tried a fairly new gdb-multiarch and also the one from the risc-v-toolchain repo and I can't get them to behave normally for some reason
<pwng> I'm  on x86_64
<pwng> linux ubuntu
<geist> hmm, lemme see if my prebuilts has a functional gdb
<geist> i honestly never use gdb so haven't tested it too much
<geist> but i always have some prebuilts around
<pwng> can you please tell me an alternative?
<geist> alternative to what?
<pwng> something like printf-debugging probabbly?
<pwng> you say you never use gdb
<geist> ah yes.
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<geist> seems to have at least a partially functional gdb
<geist> though it claims it can't enable python support. unsurprising
<geist> not that it'll solveyour problems
<pwng> I will try it right now -- many thanks <3
<bslsk05> ​travisg/toolchains - Shell script to build gcc for various architectures (32 forks/55 stargazers/MIT)
<geist> it doesn't do anything particularly special to build gdb though, so its probably about the same result as you had
<bslsk05> ​github.com: toolchains/doit at master · travisg/toolchains · GitHub
<geist> but like i said i dont really use gdb and basically just use printf debugging and/or the integrated qemu state inspection
<geist> not really trying to boast about it. there are places where source level debugging is great, but i just dont like to rely on high level tools like that if i can help it. i've spent far too much time at various companies and whatnot where that was not available, so you get used to working with what you got
<geist> and, honestly, you tend to forget that higher level stuff exists
<zid> I'm too stupid to write gdb commands that persist through restarts
<zid> so I tend to only use it for simple stuff
<zid> otherwise I have to spend too long setting the gdb state back up
<geist> honestly the x86-64 thing where it can't handle mode shifts has turned so many people off to gdb, since it's still a pain after all these years
<geist> but it does tend to be simpler on other arches that dont have that mode shift
<zid> Thankfully I don't have to care, all my stuff is looongboi
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<gog> i gotta figure out how to automate the section offsets in my .gdbinit
<gog> pita to have to tell it every time
<pwng> Unfortunately, the problem persists so probably it's a problem with my setup, so I'll just stick with simpler stuff
<pwng> many thanks all!
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<geist> pwng: sorry about that. also was just thinking, are you sure it's matched the bitness?
<geist> ie, 32 to 32, 64 to 64?
<geist> though the two bit modes are basically the same on riscv, there are a few subtle differences
<geist> no idea if gdb just knows the bitness of the target or not
<geist> or how its encoded
<gog> disassembly mode and stepi sort of works agnostic of bitness mode
<gog> but it'll tell you garbage on the backtrace
<gog> or say it can't find it
<clever> yeah, i had gdb giving me all kinds of garbage when i forced qemu into arm BE mode
<clever> but i later discovered, linux will switch the arm core into BE automatically, and expects you to boot in LE mode
<clever> (if using a BE linux build)
<zid> Backtraces are always garbage, your program already crashed, all memory is now suspect :P
<pwng> geist: I use the GDB command `set architecture riscv:rv64` so I think that's what you mean?
<geist> yah
<pwng> It's fine I think I better get used to not having it around as you said
<geist> might have some luck asking on the #riscv channel as well
<geist> might have to wait a bit for an answer but they seem fairly knowledgable
<pwng> Great thanks so much!