<superleaf1995>
and made it so it's wrapped around \SYSTEM\COMM\BSC.***, which does the EBCDIC -> ASCII translation
<zid>
það isn't trivial to say
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<Oli>
I am using a small monitor with video fed via RCA, and through that was a fancy way to type bsd.
<zid>
have you considered upgrading to rgb
<gog>
monochrome lcd for me
<zid>
..2048x1152 24bit monitor, why are you guys so weird
<gog>
i'm joking
<Bitweasil>
I'm annoyed at the lack of greyscale filter in most modern OSes. :(
<Oli>
Yes; I aim to do so once I get up to build a wire for; I am using a Raspberry Pi 3B+ board as my main computer since a while.
<j`ey>
Oli: with SD card or SSD?
<Oli>
Monochrome monitors feels great on my eyes; specially for reading: It seems much sharper to me than chroma video.
<Oli>
I am booting from, and using one SD card to load an operating system from.
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<ksp>
amogus
<j`ey>
Oli: ive been thinking about getting an ssd
<superleaf1995>
SSDs are nice but very low capacity
<j`ey>
huh?
<superleaf1995>
i usually like HDDs because they have more capacity
<gog>
j`ey: get one
<gog>
11/10 highly recommend
<Bitweasil>
^^
<Bitweasil>
How much data do you have to store?
<j`ey>
superleaf1995: I mean, you can get TB SSDs too
<Bitweasil>
A 256GB or 512GB boot SSD is amazing.
<zid>
If you're rich, hdds don't have higher capacity :p
<Bitweasil>
And then use spinning rust for bulk file storage.
<superleaf1995>
j`ey: usually for more
<zid>
yea I've been on a 240GB boot drive for a long time now
<Oli>
16GB seems more than enough for all my computing desires; I aim to have more room after I get a minimal Linux environment instead of Raspberry OS, I am currently using, and keep on devicing a bootloader from.
<gog>
i've only got 128 but an external spinner for storage
<Bitweasil>
16GB isn't enough to build a kernel.
<gog>
128 is more than enough for what i need
<Bitweasil>
er.
<j`ey>
Bitweasil: I know that you like rpis with SSD ;)
<zid>
I recently did something incredibly risky, basically unprotected sex with someone with a bad cough
<Bitweasil>
To build the Linux kernel, forgot which channel I was in.
<zid>
I bought a used hard drive from the back of a van
<zid>
..4TB WD RED, and it.. works fine? :o
<gog>
:o
<j`ey>
Im using my rpi4 right now to build the linux kernel quite often, and it's not that slow, but an ssd could help
<Bitweasil>
j`ey, yeah, they work nicely. Though I'm also rocking an ODroid N2+ right now, and the eMMC on that is actually legitimately quick too.
<Oli>
I differ from building a complete Linux kernel, but a modular one with handpicked modules.
<zid>
I always use my own config
<zid>
I build in ext2 and ext4 and all my drivers are modules
<zid>
and I only build the ones I use
<Bitweasil>
#GenTwo!
<Bitweasil>
I used to do that. Then I stopped caring.
<superleaf1995>
modular kernels are the best :')
<Bitweasil>
I don't think there's a huge difference in performance either way.
<gog>
i don't miss gentoo
<zid>
smaller kernels are nicer
<j`ey>
I build everything in, so I can just use a fixed initramfs and it's easier to dev with
<zid>
I don't even use an initramfs
<zid>
that's even easier easier
<superleaf1995>
yeah because you can eventually remove out modules ya don't need instead of rebuilding
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<Bitweasil>
gog, I occasionally consider spinning up a Gentoo box again, but I'll probably use it to teach my kids. :D
<gog>
teach them what not to do
<zid>
gentoo's not exactly hard
<zid>
you set the timezone, keyboard layout and clock
<gog>
"don't waste your best years waiting for emerge -avuDN world"
<zid>
then 'emerge some top level gui package' and it builds all the deps for your kde or gnome or whatever it was
<zid>
and you're basically now ubuntu
<zid>
except apt is slightly faster
<superleaf1995>
ubunutified gentoo
<superleaf1995>
oh no
<zid>
it's hardly slackware, it does it all automatically
<j`ey>
my coworker uses slack
<Oli>
Now that you mention desktop environments, came to my mind a pile of packages to compile for getting a development environment for. I think best get a flash drive to hold a development environment to chroot and compile from, for the system in the 16GB SD card I use.
<zid>
flash is slooooooow
<Bitweasil>
<3 USB SSDs.
<Bitweasil>
Even over USB2 they're a lot faster than SD, and USB thumb drives are pretty piss-poor at random IOPS too.
<Bitweasil>
All that stuff - SDs, thumb drives, etc, is designed for large block single threaded transfers of a lot of data at once.
<Bitweasil>
(shoving photos or such onto it)
<zid>
It's hard to say they're even 'designed' for that
<zid>
it's just the thing they suck least at
<Bitweasil>
Builds are a ton of random 4k IO, and even an old ragged used SSD will thrash them in 4k random I.
<zid>
imagine building on an optane :o
<zid>
1M iops
<Bitweasil>
If you use them in that way, many are quite respectable. But fall flat outside that use case.
<Bitweasil>
So I'll claim they're designed for that use case.
<Bitweasil>
:p
<Bitweasil>
Glacial.
<Bitweasil>
ramdisk or nothing.
<zid>
gotta get it into ram somehow!
<Bitweasil>
nvdimms. Only once!
<zid>
I have built the linux kernel by copying all the files somewhere first to put them into page cache
<zid>
I got it down to a minute
<zid>
on a quad core
<gog>
cheater
<Oli>
Still faster than writting to a floppy disk! While compiling doesn't take over three days, flash drives are supporting my computing activities well so far.
<zid>
I'd probably just distcc to a $2 vps
<j`ey>
Bitweasil: how much faster do you think doing a kernel compile is on ssd vs sd card? 2x? more?
<Bitweasil>
Don't know, haven't benchmarked.
<Bitweasil>
I would guess 10-15%?
<Bitweasil>
And how much RAM you have.
<j`ey>
oh hm
<Bitweasil>
I'd probably run a -j 6 on SD, vs -j 5 on SSD.
<Bitweasil>
(for a quad core)
<j`ey>
maybe I'll look at iowait or iotop or whatever, see if I can figure it out
<Bitweasil>
Just look at the "iowait" line in top while you're building and see how bad it is.
<Bitweasil>
If you've got a bunch of cores waiting, you're choked on it.
<j`ey>
most of my builds are like 30s incremental builds
<j`ey>
(at least for the thing im currently working on)
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<Oli>
Thank you for mentioning about distcc, zid! I wasn't aware about it.
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