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<Izem>
anyone doing implementation in a concurrent language?
<klange>
There are some Rust projects but I don't know if any of them actually make use of concurrent features. Most concurrent languages need a system backend for their concurrent functionality, which leads to a bit of a chicken/egg problem for OS dev.
<Izem>
ohhh
<Izem>
for some reason I though the language could provide it
<gog>
usually the toolset relies on some library code that's necessarily tied to the OS
<gog>
for threading and such
<Izem>
hmm, well I guess I have to try another direction then
<klange>
Kernels are scary places where languages doing concurrency behind the scenes is a route to disaster. Even when you're doing it yourself it can lead to awkward situations...
<Izem>
I see, thanks
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<Izem>
is the toolchain what enables a language to be osdev friendly?
<zid>
The language has to be turned into code, that code has certain requirements on the environment it expects
<zid>
java bytecode expects there to be a JVM
<zid>
python expects a python interpreter etc
<zid>
that means your kernel, in order to use languages like this, has to also be a python interp, or a JVM, etc
<zid>
People use languages like C because C's requirements are basically "Some amount of bytes will need to be set to zero"
<zid>
which you can do in 4 lines of assembly, and that's the entire environment sorted
<zid>
if you're thinking of something with built in threads, that environment aspect means you're now supplying a threading library as part of the runtime environment
<zid>
which means lots of code NOT written in that language, at the very least
<klange>
Speaking of, someone is porting their own JVM implementation to ToaruOS, they sent me screenshots of working Swing UIs under SDL.
<klange>
But they keep trying to talk to me at 2am :)
<moon-child>
ha, nice
<gog>
that's fine, your cats will wake you at 3
<klange>
My cats don't wake me at 3, they keep me up until 3.
<gog>
ah fair enough
<zid>
Keeping your cats up until 3am playing with them smh
<kazinsal>
I'm trying to NIH as much as I can but damn if it's not tempting to port kuroko to make rapidly developing features faster
<gog>
nah it's more like 19:30 now
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<klange>
kazinsal: I would say "why do you think I wrote it" but then I haven't really done much with it since...
<klange>
But then, I've been focused on kernel stuff lately with Misaka. Kuroko did get a Yutani module and test app, and I did port some of my build tools to it... and I've been using it to test some socket stuff.
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<kazinsal>
Definitely. One of my near-term goals is to get sockets "functional enough" as well, as well as some better network queuing, then get an actual proper CLI going and accesible over the network
<kazinsal>
But this evening I have a different kind of networking task to work on: Rebuilding my actual dev network!
<Izem>
zid: thanks, that does give me an idea for a small vm
<Izem>
kazinsal devices drivers across a network?
<kazinsal>
Izem: Nah, literally deploying some new VMs and re-IPing a couple others
<kazinsal>
And LDAPifying the whole thing
<Izem>
ah
<kazinsal>
That's going to be the trickiest part I think
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<moon-child>
'LDAP' whyy
<kazinsal>
SSO across all my machines running different OSes
<moon-child>
why would you want SSO
<kazinsal>
Because all the machines are on my network?
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<geist>
kazinsal: allow me to sign up for your newsletter
<geist>
i'd love to do the same thing (SSO for everything)
<kazinsal>
the centos box is fighting me but the rest are slowly falling in line
<zid>
pam + mysql? :P
<geist>
any luck with windows?
<zid>
That's how I handled it when I did it for a whopping couple machines
<kazinsal>
the windows boxes are happy because the auth server is an AD domain controller
<geist>
yah i'd almost like the LDAP box to be some sort of dedicated embedded like controller thing
<geist>
like a raspberry pi, or whatnot
<geist>
then it has no deps on anything else
<kazinsal>
yeah, I've never tried joining windows machines to openldap
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<geist>
i wonder how windows 11 is supposed to deal with that, since they're pushing your harder and harder to using msfts loging
<geist>
but clearly they will still support LDAP and whatnot
<kazinsal>
yeah, it's oging to be interesting. we're moving to azure AD + intune at work
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<kazinsal>
but I'm still setting up domain controllers on prem for customers so this is also a good chance for me to play with server 2022
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<junon>
is it bad that I kind of miss seeing the long spiels of that one individual who comes in periodically?
<Mutabah>
junon: yes
<geist>
yes, yes it is
<geist>
i do miss doug16k a bit though
<geist>
we used to muse about some of the finer points of PC esoterica
<kazinsal>
guess he never bothered adding libera to his irc client
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<junon>
:D
<geist>
yeah, amazing how quickly i mostly forgot about all of that
<geist>
after about 2 weeks the whole freenode thing hadn't crossed my mind
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<junon>
Yeah they did a really good job of transferring it.
<junon>
Pretty impressed.
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<k4m1>
huh, I never even realised doug16k isn't here, used to learn a bit by just lurking & reading his stuff
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<k4m1>
doug/2
<k4m1>
huh, soz
<klange>
I know we had a handful of detractors, was doug one of them or just someone who never showed up again?
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<moon-child>
I'm pretty sure doug was on libera for a while
<moon-child>
checked up on his github after he hadn't shown up for a couple of months, seems to still be alive at least
<zid>
yea he was here for a bit
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<vai_>
well howdy
<junon>
hi!
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<vai_>
hi
<vai_>
hmm
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<Oli>
Hello, and good day! I want to comment you about about that I find myself thinking about doug16k, and mean to inquiry you about: Is he alright? Has he been around?
<gog>
:| wonder where he went
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<opios2>
who made him angry? :P
<gog>
logs indicate nothing. he just vanished
<gog>
he's made a github commit in the last 30 days tho
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<gog>
so he's not dead it seems
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<junon>
find the commit, get the email, shoot him a message asking where he's been
<gog>
maybe there's a reason he's taking a break from irc
<gog>
and it could be being contacted by randos
<gog>
i'm not exactly a rando but i'm also not going to intrude :p
<EtherNet>
who is doug16k by the way ?
<gog>
old regular
<gog>
hasn't been seen for a couple months
<EtherNet>
I hope he's okey then
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<heat>
hello
<clever>
hello
<heat>
sup
<clever>
not much
<sortie>
a lot
<kazinsal>
just enough
<kazinsal>
(actually sortie's right, it's always too much)
<kazinsal>
(I should wander off into the forest and become a hermit)
<sortie>
Just don't use any names in the forest and you'll be fine
<heat>
_Tree
<heat>
:O
<kazinsal>
the place where the nameless are found
<sortie>
Oh wait damn I violated the procedursada--- DAHSD
<kazinsal>
congratulations, you are now part of the woods which have no name
<kazinsal>
I should read that one again, it's really good
<heat>
i had a bunch of uncommitted work in my project and after this long hiatus I have no idea what the status of the code is
<heat>
welp, lets run it, see if it works
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<heat>
anyway, I've been looking at build system ideas so I can finally fix whatever broken thing I've got going on here
<heat>
i found out chromeos actually uses portage
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<heat>
my options are: 1) try to use an existing build system and suck it up (sucks for external packages); 2) fork an existing build system and try to adapt it; 3) write from scratch
<heat>
ideally I'd use something that spits out ninja
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<kazinsal>
ahhhh, solving problems with openbsd. my job is great sometimes
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<geist>
yeah chromeos linux is iirc based on gentoo
<geist>
or at least was started that way, hence using portage
<sortie>
The feeling when my OS is affected by the latest libreessl / let's encrypt / root cert expiry problem
<sortie>
My little Sortix OS gets to join in on the cool breakage in the proper OpenBSD system
<j`ey_>
not just OpenBSD is affected!
<sortie>
Yeah just saying they're the source of my breakage
<sortie>
Since I get libressl from them we share CVEs
<j`ey_>
ah
<sortie>
I'm still at the osdev stage where I go ‘oh cool the latest cool CVE affects my OS’
<j`ey_>
my OSdev has been refactoring/working on a GPIO driver for the m1 macs
<sortie>
Oh that's cool
<sortie>
A driver for your OS or an existing one?
<j`ey_>
for Linux
<sortie>
Neat
<j`ey_>
it's needed to get the keyboard working on the macbooks
<sortie>
Sounds pretty high impact work actually
<j`ey_>
someone else did most of the hard work, ive been rebasing and fixing it though
<geist>
ah interesting, the keyboard isn't just some microcontroller somewhere else?
<geist>
gpio driver sounds like you're having to scan it yourself
<j`ey_>
ah no, the gpio driver deals with the SPI controller, which connects to the keybiard
<clever>
that reminds me of some rossman repair videos
<clever>
on other macbooks, the touchpad is both usb and spi
<geist>
ah that makes sense
<clever>
during the bios, and under linux, it operates in usb mode
<clever>
but darwin itself, switches it into an spi mode
<clever>
BUT, the SPI traces, are also in a worse place, in terms of water damage
<clever>
so you can damage the board in such a way, that the mouse only works in the bios and linux
<j`ey_>
hah
<clever>
because darwin lacks usb drivers for its own mouse
<gog>
lol
<gog>
love those rossman repair videos
<zid>
The SD card slot on my wii is like that
<zid>
it will boot from SD card, but you can't use the SD card in any software
<zid>
because the spi pin works and not the proper data pins
<clever>
zid: ive considered that, for some of the rpi boot problems
<clever>
zid: ive run into a few users where recovery.bin can load from the SD card (maskrom routines), but then reading any file from the SD card, fails the hash checks
<zid>
yea sounds likely then
<zid>
it took me a while to figure out the fuck was happening
<clever>
but, the fact that it even read the correct hash from the SD card
<zid>
like, did SD cards come in different speeds and my card was failing at its top rated speed or whatever
<clever>
and other testing we did, like giving it a smaller file, and looking at the error hash
<zid>
or was there a bitflip in the higher level read routines on my nand flash etc
<clever>
in theory, you can find an old enough card, that advertises itself as 1bit only mode
<zid>
I ended up just researching how sd cards worked and found out
<clever>
and that should then work
<zid>
I thankfully don't actually need the SD for anything except the bootloader
<zid>
the bootloader supports USB
<clever>
ah, nice
<clever>
my bootloader still lacks a usb stack
<clever>
so my only choice is xmodem over uart, or SD
<zid>
well, the bootloader boots, and eventually, what I want to do, is supported over usb
<zid>
I leave the SD card in the wii so it'd be nice if I could leave more than just the bootloader on it, a couple other vital apps or whatever
<zid>
them having to be on the USB is totally fine, until I lose it
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