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<t-paul[m]>
Nice, so more day coming up soon :)
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<teepee>
o_O
<Alicia>
hi teepee, why the "o_O" face?
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<teepee>
because it finally reconnected. the tor server was down for all morning
<Alicia>
oh
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<Guest2>
Hello guys, i was wondering if openscad could also be used to maintain information of large structures e.g. a powerplant
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<teepee>
Guest2: that probably would depend mostly on the level of detail
<InPhase>
Guest2: Could it be? Yes. But this is probably not the ideal tool for the job of tracking very complex data.
<teepee>
modelling a real life model is unlikely to work and also there's not much support in direction of visual style (except basic colors in preview mode)
<InPhase>
Guest2: OpenSCAD's target job is turning numerical input into geometry models.
<Guest2>
Most of the models would be basic shapes (e.g. pipe = cylinder, heat exchanger = box) and color coded
<InPhase>
Guest2: If you want to keep detailed records of complex information that needs to be tracked, organized, and formatted, with geometry models as an output, then OpenSCAD's ideal role in that would be as an end component on the geometry path as part of a larger toolchain.
<Guest2>
I imagined individual parts could be done seperate and then there could be a bigger file where everything gets imported, wehn you change the format of a type of equipment, it would get updatet everywhere
<InPhase>
Future extensions to OpenSCAD could do integrated multi-part renders with configurable formatted outputs, but the pieces for this are not in place.
<InPhase>
You can do multiple parts in one file already, externally selecting one at a time to output, so it's sort of there, but not in the way one would want for this to be a full engineering model of something elaborate to be manufactured by a non-printing method.
<Guest2>
I understand, so maybe it could fit for some small scale projects
<Guest2>
Would you have a recommendation on a tool that has a balance between complexity and usage?
<InPhase>
The primary design goal is "this file produces this printable part". Although some people do use it for other things, like working up models of house layouts or testing out carpentry designs before building.
<InPhase>
And of course there's the art. :)
<InPhase>
I think broadly speaking the OpenSCAD approach should be able to fully replace other CAD approaches, someday.
<Jack22>
if you look at CATIA or AutoCAD then you will notice that there is a different aproach
<InPhase>
Whether that is with OpenSCAD or another program following programmatic-focused CAD design. It is the superior approach to scaling up designs with good abstraction.
<InPhase>
It's just a big undertaking to get all those project management extras in, without millions in development funds. :)
<Jack22>
when modeling real world you have standard parts and need lists about them and BOM .. you could make something out of SCAD but that require specialized libraries for it
<InPhase>
Parts libraries we could already do. Tracking of ones used is not something we really have setup though.
<Jack22>
e.g. you would need to get all that static calculations into it.
<Guest2>
No, static calculations do not matter in that case, its all about having data on how something looks, where it is and maybe a bit of extra info
<Guest2>
Mostly its about a visual representation / documentation
<Guest2>
But from what you say, it would be a very hard thing to do
<Jack22>
in AutoCAD i can design walls and it will tell me how much volume insulation i need .. this can be done in SCAD but i have to make a Wall module first and there is no way to get the calculated data out of that module
<Jack22>
the presentation of SCAD is also not raytracing so no mirroring no reflection no shadows
<Jack22>
you sure could make models and import the rendered geometry into blender .. apply mappings and get a nice image
<Jack22>
But if you try to get 10000 parts together i thing you will get a performance issue with SCAD
<Guest2>
Am i allowed to post a link to a picture? from google
<Jack22>
sure (keep in mind the channel is logged)
<Guest2>
That was also one of the questions i had, it could be alot of parts in the total
<Guest2>
I could imagine that making modular models with variable inputs for tanks etc. could be very useful e.g.
<Guest2>
You could even store tag numbers in the variables of the models making them unique
<Guest2>
There would be the need to export all the data in a clean format
<Jack22>
SCAD works with points while those other programs work with curves .. means i can make a round object without much processing power - while SCAD would need to calculate all faces to make it look round
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<Jack22>
you could use a low detail and switch up later .. but still would take some time then .. and you can not export parts with a material or color .. you would only get the geometry and a steel cube would be the same as a concrete cube
<LeviHarris-Brown>
<Jack2110034> "if you want an inner thread use..." <- I tried printing this afterwards. I did `Gewinde(preset="M6",h=std_height, innen=true);` and an M6 bolt doesn't fit, the thread is way too big, the bolt wobbles all over the place. The other two libraries I tested worked fine
<Guest2>
that would be okay, if you could store important information in variables
<Guest2>
and then extracting the information somehow
<LeviHarris-Brown>
@Jack22 are you the same person as Jack2110034?
<Jack22>
LeviHarris-Brown not sure what your printer does but the dimensions are close to the DIN specifications
<Jack22>
Yeah probably the same Jack
<Jack22>
Guest2 best you just try some simple designs and play a bit with SCAD so you get familiar with it
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: The thing is I printed it right next to the other two standard thread libraries mentioned, and both of those worked (were a tiny bit tight actually). But your one wobbles so much it's crazy, if it wobbled a little bti more it'd be able to jump threads
<Jack22>
LeviHarris-Brown .. pretty sure you had some values wrong .. let me see the code you used for the bolt and for the thread
<Jack22>
Guest2 your welcome, let us know if we can help
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: https://pastebin.com/VYvtnLcP most were made with threads-rcolyer, then one with threads (Dan Kirshner), then one with yours
<Jack22>
LeviHarris-Brown you could set spiel=0 in the inner thread part then the thread is touching the inside wall
<LeviHarris-Brown>
oh thanks that's easier
<Jack22>
LeviHarris-Brown so you used only the inner thread but not the outer from my library ? not sure whet specs the other have
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: Oh it's just a normal M6 bolt
<LeviHarris-Brown>
not printed
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<Jack22>
The geometry will give you a 4.92mm core and 6.3mm thread
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: Is that what the standard M6 is? Having a look at it, even in the model the hole for yours just looks bigger than the other two?
<Jack22>
put a cylinder of d=4.92 in and it will touch the inside .. this is what industrial norm says
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: When I measured the other libraries with my calipers I get about 4.90-4.92. When I measure yours it's more like 5.10?
<Jack22>
the max diameter of the grooves is not defined only a minimal which is 6mm (what you get when spiel=0)
<Jack22>
measure the geometry .. i know others adapted to changes of the printing process while mine give you precise geometry and i rely that your slicer and printer will transfer this correctly
<Jack22>
the console (text output) will also tell you what you get
<Jack22>
by default there is .15mm clearance applied which is what most printers need at minimum so the hole is 5.22mm (max spec in DIN for 6G is 5.18)
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<Jack22>
LeviHarris -Brown have you tried to screw this onto an metall M6 bolt?
<Jack22>
which should be between 4.6 and 4.8 core
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<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: I just tested a simple openscad with M6 model and then a 4.92mm diameter cylinder. put it in ortho and top view, and it doesn't touch the sides? Is that because of spiel not being 0, as it wasn't in my model
<LeviHarris-Brown>
<Jack22> "LeviHarris -Brown have you..." <- huh? that's what I originally said I'm doing?
<Jack22>
yes spiel is additional clearance on top of the minimum specifications
<LeviHarris-Brown>
yeah so without setting it, the inside diameter comes out to like 5.1mm or something?
<Jack22>
also some libraries make it smaller so the metal bolt widens it so if you measure after the bolt was screwed in they have the diameter of the bolt and not what you actually printed
<Jack22>
as said the standard spiel is .15 which adds .3 to the diameter
<dalias>
jack22, that seems like a really bad idea since it would ruin the accuracy of nearby dimensions
<Jack22>
dalias? what do you mean this is within industrial tollerance
<dalias>
(maybe not an issue if there's infill in between, but a large portion of my parts with threaded connections have no room for anything but walls near the threads
<dalias>
if it makes the holes undersized (not within industrial tolerance) so that a metal bolt stretches the hold...
<dalias>
hole*
<dalias>
that stretching would mess stuff up
<Jack22>
yes which is why my lib is not doing that - but others do
<LeviHarris-Brown>
I'm still confused, if it's correct to the model, then why is the bolt wobbly?
<Jack22>
on the other hand plastic will deform and fill the gaps .. so layer steps get closed
<Jack22>
LeviHarris-Brown a standard metal metal connection would be a bit wobbly - so with a .15 spiel (default or not defined ) you get to the max what is allowed
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<Jack22>
you can try with 0 clearance (spiel=0) but this would mean a 6mm bolt will scratch on the inside ( which would be a tight fit and what a locknut is doing)
<Jack22>
a good thread can be turned in without force
<Jack22>
but you may need lower clearance for a resin print .. like half of it .075
<LeviHarris-Brown>
Jack22: I just put a 25mm long bolt in 12.5mm, and the top of it can move about 1.4mm from side to side
<LeviHarris-Brown>
that's supposed to be within tolerance?
<Jack22>
metal to metal ?
<LeviHarris-Brown>
no this is the metal bolt in the thread made in the code I provided
<Jack22>
as said it is the max what is allowed in the specification
<Jack22>
if you want less just reduce the clearance .. if you like a locknut use 0 clearance
<LeviHarris-Brown>
hmm actually putting it in a nut you're right there is quite a bit. I guess it's just something I didn't realise was that extreme until now
<Jack22>
do you know if your print came out bigger or smaller - as you said you measured .15 less it is likely without clearance this will be undersized
<Jack22>
(you said 5.1 "something" and it should be 5.3)
<Jack22>
sorry 5.22mm
<Jack22>
i think your resin printer is more precise as the irregularities of FDM so you could get away with less clearance
<LeviHarris-Brown>
oh looks like it has come out significantly larger on the x and y than it normally does. ~1% larger on the X and Y directions, ~0.2% on the z
<Jack22>
then you are probably good with spiel=0
<LeviHarris-Brown>
hmm ok, thanks I'll try that!
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<Jack22>
there is also i difference between a short and long thread - you could work a short thread with force but if it is 50mm you get problems if it is very tight .. some using a thread cutter to get a good fit so you want an undersized print for that
<Jack22>
one last thing if you also printing the bolt (with my lib) it will probably also be bit bigger and won't fit into a nut with zero clearance that good
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<LeviHarris-Brown>
<Jack22> "one last thing if you also..." <- thanks. Despite being looser your one seemed to do a better job of standing up to me over-tightening it until it breaks. No data or anything and obviously n = 1, but it felt a lot harder to tighten once the bolt was all the way in. Also it's hard to do a proper post-cure of deep threads
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<Jack22>
n=1 ? .. i am using a little grease or ptfe/silicone oil spray on all threads (especially if both printed and plastic is onto plastic)
<Jack22>
in industry (metal nut/screw) if you need to have a certain torque applied the stress on the bolt significantly differs if some grease was used or not
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