teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | https://openscad.org/advent-calendar-2021/ | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
<teepee> Jack21: 3mf button incoming :)
<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 8 modifications (Add option to configure 2D/3D toolbar actions.). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/4f99a78995e3333b399c8fb11e1368ae1b8e4b1e
<Jack21> Yeah .. cool
<teepee> I guess at some point I'd like to have the toolbars just configurable, but in the meantime having the option to change buttons probably makes sense
<teepee> no change of keyboard shortcuts though, we really need to get that PR in :/
<Jack21> so F7 is exporting always STL  but we have a button for 3mf ( or svg?)
<teepee> yes
<Jack21> probably confusing if shortcuts change ..  but a lot programs have customizable shortcuts
<teepee> there's probably a need for some "smart export" action too which would just remember the export format or something like that
<teepee> yeah, the shortcut editor shall solve that part
<Jack21> "default export"
<Jack21> i im happy with a button anyway
<teepee> printing my traffic lights today I wanted to finally switch to 3mf, so I needed that button
<Jack21> haha  create demand
<Jack21> so i have to wait until you want your traffic lights 3mf  in color - Ü
<teepee> the threads worked perfectly without any tweaking, but I'll try the stuff from your lib at some point too
<teepee> hmm, printing in natural pla, using rgb led rings
<Jack21> i mean when you upload this and want colors within the 3mf displayed
<teepee> full color support is probably waaaay out unfortunately, unless someone finds heaps of spare time
<Jack21> .. the Gewinde() module is now 4generation and  will make a lot and has presets for M threads and some other 1/2 or soda bottle
<teepee> but there might be some quicker wins, like tagging top level modules with color and exporting that
<Jack21> i assumed that the color info is already there and just need to be passed to the 3mf lib
<Jack21> oh that is this micro manipulator
<teepee> I still have 2 spare round esp8266 PCBs, so probably more soldering going on soon-ish, not so much color work ;-)
<teepee> yeah, openscad microscope project
<teepee> very cool stuff
<Jack21> they just should implement 3mf  in html 6
<teepee> IIRC it's really more than just a mesh format, it's targeting full GPU asset delivery
<Jack21> 3mf also contain mapping and color  so  that should work too
<Jack21> that animation thing is something afaik is not in 3mf
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<InPhase> lf94, jack21zzzzz: My alternative of today's Day 12 entry: https://i.imgur.com/mjkpFYW.png https://bpa.st/QR6A
<lf94> Nice. I skipped today's too, but once again, I'll go back to it
<InPhase> I tried very hard to get rid of the magic numbers that are typically used to make these. I inserted only sqrt(5)-1, and 360/5, and did all of the rest with translate, rotate, and mirror, using nested module calls.
<lf94> Nicely done
<InPhase> There are no vertex tables. :)
<lf94> I wouldve done vertex table :D.
<InPhase> I felt like it shouldn't have to have a vertex table. Although it was pretty tricky to figure out the right pattern to do it without. :)
<lf94> I made an isocahedron not using a vertex table but it may have been easier
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<jack21zzzzz> inPhase but you don't have the option to replace the spheres with little dodecahedrons - Ü
<InPhase> jack21zzzzz: Oh yeah, I was going to ask about that. I saw that comment in the code, but then they didn't look like dodecahedrons in the image?
<jack21zzzzz> in the customizer you can say spheres false
<InPhase> Ah.
<InPhase> jack21zzzzz: And what option do I select to put dodecahedrons at the vertices of the vertex dodecahedrons?
<jack21zzzzz> but more usefull is the different orientations to print
<jack21zzzzz> you want recursion?  .. you can have recursion - Ü
<InPhase> Dodecafractal.
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<jack21zzzzz> just replace the dodecaeder  (why did i used that name?)  with the wiredodecahedron and it is recursive
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<InPhase> I'm going to attempt to recurse mind and see how far it can go before OpenSCAD blows up.
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<jack21zzzzz> ..  hmm need scaleing too
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<lf94> InPhase: someone from our channel is asking how certain people are creating and meshing fractal models, such as: https://www.shapeways.com/product/KF7Z3ZPVL/honeycomb-borromean-surface - do you know?
<lf94> It's an interesting question because meshing these fractals should create tons of triangles. I personally think they meshed with a voxelizer and then triangulated.
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<lf94> But do you think they're using an open source software or commercial? I think commercial.
<lf94> (I think they did it that way because if you look at the 3D view, you can see the patterns reminiscent of being meshed using voxels)
<InPhase> jack21zzzzz: lol
<InPhase> jack21zzzzz: (At the first one.)
<jack21zzzzz> this is a sphere .. now this are 1000 recursive dodecahedrons
<InPhase> Got distracted by the kids, so you beat me to it. :)
<InPhase> I will try anyway.
<jack21zzzzz> hmm no without rotations it creates a dodecaheadron but 3 recursion already took some time .. not sure if 4 or 5 is possible
<InPhase> lf94: I suppose you could do that in a lot of different ways. But at $141.01 a piece, I guess they don't have a good motivation to explain exactly how they did it.
<jack21zzzzz> 20736 dodecaheadrons are quite  a lot
<dTal> dodecahedra*
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<jack21zzzzz> hail hedra
<lf94> InPhase: Yea, figured.
<lf94> XD
<InPhase> lf94: I could certainly envision an OpenSCAD program which would generate that. It's not too far from what I did for this, just merged with an affine transform path traced out. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1693052
<othx> InPhase linked to "Fabric Weave Library by rcolyer" on thingiverse => 5 IRC mentions
<jack21zzzzz> lf94  maybe they just used the make pattern in meshmixer  i
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<InPhase> And of course a slightly different polyhedron generator that pops out a connected hexagon weave.
<lf94> I'll have to look that up
<InPhase> lf94: Let's put it this way. I wouldn't do that for fun. If someone contracted me to design it in OpenSCAD, I wouldn't take the contract unless it ranged up to at least 8 hours worth of my time. Because I expect it would take somewhere between 4 hours and 8 hours depending on things getting messy.
<InPhase> lf94: But, doable.
<InPhase> Some designs are just automatically more fun than others. That one looks a little painful. :)
<InPhase> I wish it showed how many of them this person sold. That would be interesting information.
<teepee> uff, that is such bad news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ3hWyfMlU0 I've not watched the videos that often but hopefully he's coming back at some time
<othx> teepee linked to YouTube video "I have a brain injury." => 1 IRC mentions
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<jack21zzzzz> as said if you have the borromean surface as object not just surface  you can do this with 3 clicks in meshmixer  (probably also making a surface into an object)
<InPhase> Like are these people actually making money selling these? Compare $54.60 for this https://www.shapeways.com/product/TPVPHSTKR/600-cell?optionId=2498987&li=marketplace to this image: https://pasteboard.co/ep1TZY1XsQ9B.png ;)
<lf94> InPhase: I would think this is pretty easy to define as a surface using mathematical formula.
<lf94> And then intersection with hexagon ?
<lf94> But this looks like a shape which was deformed.
<lf94> shape >> intersect hexagon >> deform
<lf94> Not good for openscad. But Curv could do this pretty easily
<lf94> Because deformation is natural in SDF universe
<InPhase> It's possible it could go easier there.
<jack21zzzzz> most of these objects are very easy to make if you know how  - and as they look complicated people pay for them
<InPhase> Just from intuitive experience it looks like one of those things that gets messy in a way you can't see in advance as soon as you try to actually do it.
<jack21zzzzz> bit like modern art can cost 10000$ for just someone squirting paint onto a carnevas
<ali1234> well they are selling the physical objects on shapeways. that thing would be trivial to model but an absolute nightmare to actually print
<jack21zzzzz> made this with scad and meshmixers  "make pattern" https://imgur.com/a/OEbcLUW
<InPhase> teepee: I don't think I've seen Strange Parts before, but that reminds me of what Simone Giertz went through.
<ali1234> and those pendants are in sintered metal at the prices shown
<jack21zzzzz> strange parts had some nice iphone mods and insight into  shenzen markets and manufacturing
<jack21zzzzz> but a tumor and concussion are very different
<teepee> It says on one of the designs: "I used Mathematica and Kenneth Brakke's Surface Evolver to compute this section of it. My own creative contribution: the holes."
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<jack21zzzzz>  every mesh has triangles - so making hexagons is not that difficult ..
<InPhase> Oh wait, that's the guy I watched with the "made my own iphone in China" video years ago.
<InPhase> Yeah.
<teepee> yep, that's likely him
<InPhase> Looks like that was his first video. :)
<InPhase> Then he did a whole bunch more stuff in that style.
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul pushed 8 modifications (Merge pull request #4007 from openscad/export-button-config
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<lf94> http://0x0.st/-FpV.png tangent arc circle!
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<JakeSays> so today my printer is as quiet as a mouse
<JakeSays> and as soon as i say that, the high pitched sound returns, dammit
<JakeSays> i think it's related to print speed
<lf94> You probably need to lube some things
<lf94> Mine was similar, lubed it, all good again
<JakeSays> lf94: what thing?
<lf94> Probably the feeder gear
<JakeSays> on the extruder?
<lf94> For the extruder yeah
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<JakeSays> lf94: the gear doesn't have any moving parts. it's fixed to the extruder motor
<JakeSays> any of you guys ever used pla+ filament?
<teepee> no idea, is that the colorfabb stuff?
<teepee> then maybe :)
<JakeSays> lots of vendors make it
<teepee> all3d article says "There’s no single formula for PLA plus"
<teepee> ah, no, colorfabb calls their stuff PLA / PHA
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<Guest30> hi guys, just thought i would drop you a line about a library i have made for structural steel. If anyone is interested it is here :- https://www.thingiverse.com/groups/openscad/forums/general/topic:53363
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<JakeSays> Guest30: is australian metric different than regular metric?
<teepee> Guest30: nice, and open source license too
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Use built-in libz on macOS (#4000)). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/da6349e985c61f0feb55d1ddcac89264e2e67bce
<teepee> maybe consider putting it on github (or gitlab or similar) where it's also easy to add some short mini documentation
<teepee> with some more stable links than a thingiverse forum post it could find a place on https://openscad.org/libraries.html too
* teepee wanders off to get some sleep...
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 2 modifications (Remove more unused features from qt5 build (#3999)). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/b5aba496f270736fd91e0b1591bae872ee39fc62
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Clean Sparkle destination before overwriting). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/78e9c57f5f55a34c6b25bc624413c021104bfa26
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 2 modifications (Fix merge bugs). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/14e5cdbc466267245f4e2c85e1d78a9f4c2997ba
<InPhase> Guest30: Are you designing out buildings or something with it?
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<Jack21> just want to thank you for the correction ( polyhedrons ↦ polyhedra) - i really appreciate those. Although seems both can be used https://www.dict.cc/?s=polyhedrons  (for sure not my silly version with ea )
<Jack21> dTal:
<Jack21> inphase: i am still baffled how you did that dodecahedron .. that moving the cylinder via minkowsky  is mind-bending  however as you turned this into a contest - here is my  version https://bpa.st/KS4A
<Jack21> maybe we should add those designs to the git calendar rep as alternatives (so it is available after 24th)- can't hurt or?
<Jack21> teepee you didn't placed the dodecahedron on  12.12.21  or?  just noticed how perfect this is - Ü
<Jack21> + accidentally
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<InPhase> Jack21: Yeah. We're used to minkowski working on objects where they are. So if you make one object a really tiny dot, then it's basically just a translate-to-point operation with a few faces added that are too small to worry about.
<InPhase> Jack21: I did this just to make the math easier, since you can't rotate a cylinder into position without disorienting it, and I was trying to avoid hardcoding the position.
<Jack21> i think you could use a translation with the vector of the rotation (sin,cos) so the object is not rotated itself
<InPhase> Jack21: Your new one is very visually appealing. I like those smoothed connectors. :)
<Jack21> Thanks, these take 50% of the code - Ü  ..
<InPhase> Jack21: Yeah, that was my first plan. But then for style I decided to try to minimize precalculating.
<InPhase> I actually wrote up the precalculated coordinate by rotations first, then deleted it later. :)
<InPhase> I wanted the language to do the work on that one.
<InPhase> Looks like you have overlapped spheres on the vertices. I had that issue for a little bit.
<InPhase> There was a very specific pattern I had to generate to avoid overlapping and vertex spheres.
<InPhase> The overlapping was really slowing down the render enormously when I tried a render.
<Jack21> i had to dissect the code to find out what you have done
<InPhase> That really subtle if (z) was key to getting rid of the last one, so like a fencepost problem I had three bars and two spheres.
<Jack21> and yeah it does but you can not have these smoothe bones without (you could cut the ends accordingly so 3 form an egde)
<InPhase> I also had to flip one part around to make the if (z) work out as just a subtle if (z). I originally had the ordering in the other direction. :)
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<InPhase> Jack21: Your smooth one renders really slow. I fixed the overlap some time ago, but I've been running the benchmark comparison before and after for a while now. :)
<InPhase> It's one of those pretty-at-a-price designs.
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<InPhase> Jack21: https://bpa.st/TOGQ It's not perfect, but that's the minimal change I could find to make that resolves the sphere overlap issue. It turns the render time from 28 minutes down to 8 minutes. I added the i to Strut so I could switch off of it, and made a circle sliver to offset to.
<InPhase> It seems some symmetry is disrupted though.
<InPhase> This would probably work better with icosahedral spheres at the junctions. :)
<Jack21> can't see the symmetry is off  ..  maybe if removing a ball from each of the struts ends and keeping the balls separate could help
<Jack21> https://bpa.st/CY4A  let's how long this renders
<Jack21> oh something broke
<Jack21> probably cuz of the rotate_extrude  turning it wrong
<Jack21> https://bpa.st/NNNQ   not much faster as it seems
<Jack21> but under 10min (on my PC)
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<InPhase> Jack21: Oh. If you're going to do that, try fixing $fn.
<InPhase> When you zoom in you can see that it's not contained inside because it rearranged the faces.
<InPhase> Or make that 0.05 bigger. Maybe multiply by 0.9 or 0.95 instead for the inner one?
<Jack21> oh that rotated  rotate_extrude seems to be fixed
<InPhase> https://i.imgur.com/hjKWn1l.png lol. I don't know what I did. It might be a convexity artifact, but it's sure pretty. :)
<Jack21> the balls on the other end are too small
<Jack21>  i started with equal sized balls and got nice rings as  residue
<InPhase> Yeah, I was just shrinking them to poke at it to see which part a different artifact was making. Then I got this neat effect.
<InPhase> which part was making
<Jack21> what version do you use? .. this seems to work here with 21.12  https://bpa.st/FIJA
<InPhase> For that? I had done this. It's easy to make go away, I just thought it was neat. :) https://bpa.st/ZA6Q
<InPhase> Going to go run some errands.
<Jack21> 8min 16
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<Jack21> i shouldn't remove spheres i should use rotate_extrude circles so they fit  .. the problem is that on odd numbers of fragments rotate extrude doesn't fit the position but on a sphere there is always something not fitting..
<Jack21> so if you take the rotate(180) out you get the rings residue
<Jack21> problem wenn using $fs - you never know the number of fragments currently used
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<InPhase> Jack21: When I worked with peeps[win]'s icosahedral spheres module, I noticed that the cubic spherical subdivision one had nice properties for lining up with cylinders on the axes. I think the only thing that will line up perfectly with cylinders for dodecahedron axes is an icosahedral subdivision sphere.
<InPhase> The dodecahedron and icosahedron have that special relationship of faces and edges that I think makes this work out.
<InPhase> I suppose it's also possible a dodecahedron spherical subdivision would do this.
<InPhase> For that to work you'd need to go back to a tabulated vertex approach though, so that you can spherically subdivide them. (Which is by finding appropriate intermediate points and scaling them back out by the radius to preserve the symmetry as you subdivide.)
<InPhase> An example is on github.com/thehans
<InPhase> One of those almost appropriately named repositories. (Back to my errands.)
<Jack21> only that the offset and rotate_extrude will have a different symmetry
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<teepee> Jack21: sorry, lucky accident, at least i don't remember otherwise. or maybe you did?
<Jack21> hmm  however it is just perfect
<Jack21> you did the reordering 12.11 - Ü  but it was different in the initial order
<teepee> sometimes random + luck does produce interesting results :)
<peepsalot> Jack21: my sphere implementations are part of the FunctionalOpenSCAD repo: https://github.com/thehans/FunctionalOpenSCAD/blob/master/alternative_spheres.scad
<teepee> totally different questions... what's the simplest way to create screw posts with fillets? I'm using Strebe(single = true); so I have to put the hole in myself.
<peepsalot> Jack21: yeah if you need to ensure that a certain multiple of fragments are used, then the only option is to specify $fn directly. i was recently thinking that maybe we could use another special var like $fd (d for divisor) to specify that the result should be a multiple of $fd fragments, but i feel like the current situation is already too complicated for many to understand well
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<Jack21> teepee what kind of fillets?  ..  the post schould have an internal thread ?   use Gewinde (innen=true) and  either Kehle(dia=10) or VariaFill(dia=10);
<teepee> it does not matter too much, just to look fancy ;-)
<teepee> well, and a bit of mechanical stability of course
<teepee> using old GewindeV2!! ?
<Jack21> use<ub.scad>
<Jack21> Gewinde (innen=true,new=true,h=20);
<Jack21> VarioFill(dia=8, l=[4,10]);
<Jack21> if not with the template Gewinde will not automatically use the new version due to backward compatibility .. assume this will change soon
<Jack21> peepsalot thanks -  yeah it is not easy and when rotate_extrude switches between odd and even fragmentnumbers  you just need to check or define the case working
<teepee> ah,a it just overlays
<Jack21> teepee the old Gewinde also can work with a child and cut (the new is cutting space and insert itself iirc) but this is only usefull for one central thread (i had variables to move but for multiple threads this is getting confusing )
<peepsalot> teepee: what do you think about the $fd idea above?
<Jack21> use<ub.scad>
<Jack21> Gewinde (innen=true,new=true,h=20)cylinder(15,d=20);
<Jack21> VarioFill(dia=20, l=[4,10]);
<teepee> I've not seen that yet. just back from a birthday so my day so far was mostly eating :)
<peepsalot> or maybe "$fm" for "multiple"
<Scopeuk> peepsalot to put a personal opinion in it regularPolygon(side=nnn) might be nicer than another global ish variable on cylinders/circles, they are a bit of a complexity best avoided
<Jack21> there are not so many "good" values for $fn ..  so   24 36 72 144
<peepsalot> Scopeuk: i'm not sure you are discussing the same issue. a regular polygon module is trivial: module regularPolygon(r, sides) circle(r=r, $fn=sides);
<Scopeuk> peepsalot in this case side would be the side length not the count
<Scopeuk> a bad choice of parameter on my part
<peepsalot> i'm talking about a way to ensure that fragments which are scaled via $fa and $fs would be some multiple of divisions
<peepsalot> while still having the benefit of choosing an appropriate number fragments based on radius
<Scopeuk> ok then I have misunderstood the issue at hand
<Jack21> but a multiple wouldn't really help, you need the same number  .. sure with multiple you get even distributed residue ..  and with rotated spheres (even with only  90°)  you never get a match
<Jack21> not sure is isopsheres work better ..  maybe a subdivided truncated octahedron could work
<peepsalot> are you wanting to match up spheres of varying radii? if the fragments can be guaranteed divisible by 4 (360/90), then rotating by 90 over the z axis should always match up
<peepsalot> Jack21: did you try the alternative_spheres script? subdivided octahedron is indeed an ideal option for corners of rounded cubes etc.
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<Jack21> peepsalot  maybe the sphere() could get a variable to choose different symmetry sets  - this polar design is only useful for some cases.
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<Jack21> it is a bit anoying that spheres with even fn never have a point in the z center  and uneven fits but can't be rotated without headache
<Jack21> sphere (d=10,$fn=25);
<Jack21> cylinder(10,d=10,$fn=25);
<Jack21> while 24 leaves a gap
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