05:18 <dsimic> diederik: regarding the AMD HWRNG issue, as we've debugged it earlier, I don't think a microcode update will fix it... it's instead about the motherboard firmware that doesn't enable the CCP, while the RDRAND still works fine (as I already described, there are two exposed HWRNGs on AMD, one is CCP as a separate device, and the other is the RDRAND instruction, which also requires a userspace daemon)

05:19 <dsimic> qschulz: see above ^^^

05:20 <dsimic> qschulz: if you want ECC RAM, make sure that the motherboard officially supports it -- on AM5 it's all about the motherboard support

05:21 <dsimic> also, PRO models have built-in spy devices, similar to Intel ME, so I'd rather _not_ choose a PRO CPU/APU :)

05:33 <dsimic> to clarify, "all about the motherboard support" means that you need both a CPU/APU that supports ECC RAM and a motherboard that officially supports ECC RAM with that CPU/APU; IOW, you can get a CPU/APU whose specs state ECC RAM support, but there will be no ECC until the motherboard also supports it

05:34 <dsimic> basically, ECC RAM is optional on consumer-grade AMD CPUs/APUs, so motherboard manufacturers can choose to bother about ECC, or to simply ignore it

05:35 <dsimic> (optional for the complete system, that is)

05:37 <dsimic> that's why systems with PRO CPUs/APUs usually have official support for ECC DRAM, because they're no longer consumer-grade products

05:38 <dsimic> but they come with other workstation-grade spying features, unfortunately, as I already described abive

05:38 <dsimic> s/abive/above/

07:11 <wens> dsimic: IIRC ASUS AM5 boards are known to support ECC

07:15 <dsimic> good to know

07:16 <dsimic> but it's still good to double check each motherboard, read the reviews, etc.

07:47 <qschulz> dsimic: non-PRO APUs don't have official ECC sadly

07:48 <dsimic> ah, that's bad :(

07:48 <qschulz> dsimic: it's almost impossible to get an intel core something with ECC, and when you do, only pro-grade motherboard syou cannot buy support ecc

07:48 <dsimic> that's perhaps because the APUs are placed even lower on the ladder

07:49 <qschulz> it's a whole mess honestly, I spent weeks actually trying to find a combo that would work

07:49 <qschulz> (also because I don't want a 1U server, so that limited my research. at the beginning only mITX but then Jonsbo released the N4 so mATX was now possible

07:50 <dsimic> back in the Haswell days, E3 Xeons were just a bit more expensive than the equivalent i7 CPUs, and Asus had rather affordable server motherboards for E3 Xeons, with no stuff you don't need for a server, e.g. no sound output, etc.

07:51 <qschulz> dsimic: that's the thing, I'm looking for a more generic server (maybe that's a mistake, time will tell) so need the stuff that server usually don't

07:51 <dsimic> though, IDK what it all look like these days, i.e. are there successors to the good, old E3 Xeons

07:51 <dsimic> ah, so you need e.g. sound output?

07:51 <qschulz> dsimic: video output, sound output likely

07:52 <qschulz> basically want a glorified nas capable of playing videos, maybe it could also replace my 15yo desktop entirely with KVM

07:52 <dsimic> there was video output on those Asus motherboards for E3 Xeons, via an onboard VGA adapter

07:53 <dsimic> but just basic video, to get the video console going

07:53 <qschulz> dsimic: yeah, but then server usually don't have iGPUs nor VPUs (especially the lower price and power-efficient one)

07:53 <qschulz> yeah, that's not something interesting

07:53 <qschulz> I am chasing a unicorn to be honest

07:53 <dsimic> I see, you basically want something a server usually isn't :)

07:53 <qschulz> and i'll eventually catch it and realize i want a different unicorn

07:54 <qschulz> yeah, server is probably not the word I should use to qualify this build :)

07:54 <qschulz> just 24/7 PC :)

07:54 <CounterPillow> every Zen4 CPU comes with an integrated tiny RDNA2 GPU which is enough for video playback

07:54 <dsimic> I'd suggest that you get a "real" server, i.e. just basic integrated video, proper ECC RAM support, etc., and add a real GPU when you actually need it, for example... the same would apply for a sound card

07:55 <dsimic> you should be able to play videos on pretty much anything, using software video decoding

07:55 <dsimic> when you need more, get a real GPU

07:55 <qschulz> I want to get rid of my RPi with kodi on it, so video will be used probably day one

07:55 <CounterPillow> video decoding and rendering are two separate things

07:56 <qschulz> nah, issue is i won't have only one client (though unlikely simultaneous but possibly)

07:56 <qschulz> and... i want something decently power-efficient

07:56 <dsimic> I see

07:57 <qschulz> so adding a dedicated GPU... while I could have an APU for the price of a budget shitty GPU that is going to consume more than the CPU itself

07:57 <qschulz> in any case, I think I want to do this mistake and be told "I told you so", so not looking for advice right now but thanks for the info :)

07:57 <dsimic> yeah, but then the ECC RAM becomes an issue

07:58 <qschulz> yeah but you don't have 35W variants of non-APU CPUs ;)

07:58 <CounterPillow> Odroid H4 Plus can do in-band ECC, has an intel iGPU, has a small power envelope

07:59 <dsimic> but the TDP values are for kind-of full load power consumption... even a 100+ W TDP CPUs whould be power-efficient when not loaded

07:59 <qschulz> yes, but it means I still need to pick my PSU to be able to handle those TDP+their temporary spike to avoid brown-out

07:59 <dsimic> I mean, it has to consume power if you want it to be fast :)

07:59 <qschulz> I don't want it to be fast, I want it to be versatile :)

08:00 <dsimic> that's just about 50 W of difference for the PSU, not a big deal

08:01 <qschulz> CounterPillow: MB+soldered CPU combo isn't something I am looking for, there are otherwise plenty of options

08:01 <qschulz> Let me make my mistake darn it :D

08:01 <dsimic> please, let us know what you ended up with :)

08:01 <qschulz> I promise i'll come back in a year and told you "you were right", don't you worry :)

08:02 <dsimic> only time will tell :)

08:25 <diederik> dsimic: You could be right that it's a MB thing and not a microcode thing, but AFAIC both are still on the table.

08:26 <diederik> I've almost finished the tests the Asus support person asked me to and the last step is preparing a document which will be sent to Asus HQ for them to investigate further

08:27 <dsimic> it's true that the microcode could also be part of the issues, but quite unlikely

08:28 <dsimic> looking forward to the response from Asus, and it's great that Asus accepted to investigate this Linux issue :)

08:29 <diederik> qschulz: don't focus too much on TDP as it really only tells 'something' about maximum power use. My APU is rated for 65W, but the (MB) BIOS has an option to restrict that to 45W (IIRC), so it's just a configuration issue

08:31 <diederik> I was very focus on the 'E' variants too bc of the 35W, but 'had' to give up as I assumed I couldn't buy it separately. Later I learned about the BIOS trick, which was rather comforting :)

08:31 <qschulz> diederik: I know TDP is snake oil

08:31 <dsimic> actually, TDP reflects the typical power use, while the maximum power consumption can be much higher

08:32 <qschulz> dsimic: TDP virtually means nothing, AMD and Intel have different meaning for them and even then, you don't really know how this impacts you

08:32 <qschulz> it must be true, i read that on the internet

08:32 <dsimic> true, TDP is just a ballpark figure

08:33 <dsimic> it's actually supposed to be used while designing/selecting the cooling solution

08:33 <dsimic> and nothing more

08:33 <dsimic> but people started to judge the power consumption by the TDO values

08:33 <dsimic> oops... TDP

08:34 <dsimic> it must be true, I wrote on Wikipedia about it :D

08:35 <qschulz> source: me

08:35 <qschulz> :D

08:35 <dsimic> nah, sources were real documents from Intel :)

08:36 <dsimic> it's just that nobody reads them

20:18 <macromorgan> is there any voodoo I need to know about to make sure USB-PD works properly with the fcs,fusb302 device?