ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<midfavila> man i should have just taken an online bootcamp for computer security stuff
<midfavila> looking at the one available through EdX, the skills in that course are at least *relevant*, compared to the college I went to
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<Torr> Ahoy
<midfavila> hey Torr
<Torr> Hey buddy
<Torr> Have u had ur surgery?
<midfavila> while ago
<midfavila> cleared for light duty
<midfavila> supposed to take it relatively easy for another week or so
<Torr> Nice
<midfavila> yeah, i guess
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<Torr> Farewell ingrown nails \o/
<midfavila> not like it matters since i can't go anywhere or do anything other than sit here stewing in existential dread
<midfavila> because *i can't find a fucking job*
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<midfavila> (sorry I'm kind of having a moment right now)
<Torr> Come on, there's always something that can be done.
<midfavila> the only option that i have right now is to work full-time shitwork just to *maintain* my shitty little apartment and tofu-and-rice diet
<midfavila> i'm not going to wake up and labor for my employer just to go home, sleep, and wake up so i can labor for my employer again
<midfavila> that's awful
<midfavila> i want to be able to *do* shit
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<midfavila> i'm just going to go sit in a corner. no point in me whining in here even more than i usually do, bleh
<Torr> Well, profit driven markets are designed to extract as much from workers as possible, so that's kinda expected given the world's crooked economy =P
<midfavila> maybe i should start fucking making bombs in minecraft then, i don't know
<Torr> Lol
<Torr> Old Kaczynski approves.
<midfavila> i'm not fucking laughing
<midfavila> i legitimately have no idea what to do
<midfavila> every day that passes the weight bearing down on me grows harsher as i realize that society at large doesn't recognize anything i do as valuable, and so is willing to discard me with nary a thought
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<midfavila> and yet i keep hearing worthless platitudes from so-called experts in their fields that i'm "extremely employable" and that I "have a lot of potential" and yada yada yada
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<midfavila> god fucking forbid you want an entry-level position anywhere without five years of experience, a bachelor's degree, a personal reference from the god-king of exxon-walt disney and intricate knowledge of every goddamn piece of technology the company uses
<midfavila> this is bullshit, i'm going to bed, fuck this
<midfavila> i'm done
<Torr> You seem to be inverting the direction of labour valuation.
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<Torr> Don't start with yourself, start with others, i.e., demand.
<Torr> Don't look at what you do and wait for it to be valued, instead, look at what is valued and then do that.
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<Torr> See ya
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<Ellowee[m]> Kek
<Ellowee[m]> * Kek, weird name breaks element bridge(?)
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<sewn> poor him
<sewn> Hi
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<dot[m]1> hi
<dot[m]1> @sewn
<dot[m]1> look im here sewn
<sewn> fr...
<midfavila> frfrfrfrfrfrfrfrfr no cap
<sewn> mid
<dot[m]1> ft
<dot[m]1> fr
<dot[m]1> no capping...
<midfavila> no cap?
<sewn> fr..,.,..,mzmz,mm,,
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<sewn> midfavila: this u
<midfavila> basically
<midfavila> i'm not a communist BUT the soviets had some good ideas
<midfavila> see, here's the thing, right
<midfavila> i wouldn't even be bitching so much about the price of rent *if I could get a job*
<midfavila> because if you're employed the government will step in and pay the difference if rent is more than 30% of your income
<midfavila> but because i'm in a weird spot of both having an income and *not* being employed, they refuse
<midfavila> no job no income = services, job income = services, job no income = services, no job income = fuck off and die in a pit
<midfavila> if i'm lucky i'll get a software testing position soon:tm:
<illiliti> will gov let you starve to death if you lose income?
<sewn> weh
<midfavila> illiliti: lmao yes
<illiliti> terrible
<midfavila> that's why crime is skyrocketing in my city
<illiliti> sounds like ca is no better than 3rd world
<midfavila> my city isn't much better than the third world if you don't have money
<midfavila> in many ways it's worse
<midfavila> i have friends living in less developed countries and I always say this: in the third world, if you can't afford your current QoL, you can usually at least lower it to something you can manage
<midfavila> in the first world, there's an *extremely high* minimum QoL, and if you can't afford it, die
<illiliti> men that's truly sucks and I hate this
<midfavila> (or at least NA seems that way)
<midfavila> yeah no it seriously blows
<midfavila> especially when people turn around and throw the whole "living in a developed nation" thing in my face, as if that somehow actually matters
<midfavila> i still can't afford food or rent or education or medical care, i can't walk anywhere because suburban sprawl, and between summer and winter being 50 and -50C respectively, AC and heat are *necessities* here. not to mention that if you don't have a street address you can't get a job, but that requires money, which requires a job...
<midfavila> tl;dr unless you're part of the ~1% globally that makes more than 30k USD a year you're fucked
<midfavila> normally in my situation most people would say fuck it and join the military
<midfavila> but i can't even do that
* midfavila dies
<midfavila> idk i don't really like a lot of the stuff that the antiwork crowd espouse but i really hate this idea of a protestant work ethic that's permeated everything. like somehow if you don't work full-time for most of your life grinding away, you're an invalid and should be shunned and ignored
<midfavila> ignoring that if part-time work was actually sustainable, or if a UBI was a thing, *tons* of people would go back to school which would increase individual productivity enough to compensate for people who don't or can't work
<midfavila> at least i'm not japanese
<midfavila> i hear being a neet in japan is even worse than over here
<illiliti> is there any difference between military and civil service?
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<illiliti> in ca
<midfavila> civil service is bureaucratic stuff and usually requires that you're certifiably bilingual
<midfavila> or that you have a certain set of minimum qualifications and experience
<midfavila> and unlike private, public isn't able to budge on that
<midfavila> as someone not raised in new brunswick i'm not bilingual in the slightest and have no intention or desire of becoming... that, and it costs money that i don't have
<illiliti> so to apply you must have pedigree or xp
<midfavila> basically
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<midfavila> can't even be, say, a librarian's assistant without at least a year of experience working with the public
<midfavila> which is stupid
<midfavila> like, fuck off
<midfavila> i'm putting books back on shelves and helping people find them
<midfavila> that doesn't require "experience"
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<midfavila> if I was really desperate for cash I'd apply to be a tourism information agent
<midfavila> those guys get insane hours
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<illiliti> hate that i can't help you. i had grand plans to start something on my own and I would even hire you if things were go well
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<illiliti> but sanctions and all this bullshit ruined everything
<midfavila> >Title: Professional Shitposter and Kernel Compilation Officer
<midfavila> the thought is appreciated
<midfavila> i know a guy from France who's also a member of SDF who said pretty much the same thing, 'cept his company doesn't make enough to hire other people rn
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<illiliti> have you considered starting your own business? something that you understand well and can do all time
<illiliti> i don't know, SaaS or mobile/ps game
<illiliti> pc*
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<illiliti> so you don't have to constantly seek for a job and humiliate yourself in front of hr
<midfavila> What I understand well and could do all the time isn't in demand in the slightest, so...
<midfavila> and other skills that I have that are in demand aren't polished enough for me to find work using them
<midfavila> as for writing my own software, I'm not nearly competent enough when it comes to development to do that
<midfavila> anyway brb rebooting into slackware so I can do some Real:tm: Work:r:
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<midfavila> after fighting with LILO for the umpteenth time i have decided that the "sane" solution to my problem is to run a headless VM running a "normal" OS like debian or whatever and then allow it to connect to the host machine's X server
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<midfavila> interesting projcet
<midfavila> project even
<midfavila> under issues #1 'Question" there's also a guy who apparently worked on Arena, the W3C's old testbed browser
<midfavila> he expressed interest in packaging it for nu-Yggdrasil, and the maintainer of nu-Yggdrasil has expressed interest in reviving Arena as well
<midfavila> given some people here have expressed interest in the idea of lightweight browsers for daily use, i would suggest those interested to keep an eye on this
<illiliti> yggdrasil
<illiliti> i recall mesh net with that name
<midfavila> ye bby
<illiliti> so many yggdrasils
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> oh, by the way, something else i'm going to be working on that may or may not interest you lot: i'm working on packaging LFS SysV for KISS.
<midfavila> nothing fancy, mostly just clerical work, but still
<midfavila> ...well, actually, I lied. Slightly modified LFS using musl and stuff instead of GNU implementations where possible.
<illiliti> btw mid i think you are in demand. it's just so niche and hard to find to hop into
<illiliti> so kinda sorta survivorship bias
<midfavila> i keep hearing that from really qualified people
<midfavila> and i appreciate it
<midfavila> it's just really frustrating
<midfavila> because yeah, my skills *are* valuable, they're just... hilariously niche
<midfavila> like, absurdly so
<illiliti> yes
<illiliti> overqualified
<midfavila> i don't even really know how to sell myself, other than "I solve problems using computers."
<midfavila> i guess i'm kind of like a handyman, but... computers, and also 1970s/80s era tech
<midfavila> ???
<midfavila> idk
<midfavila> i have a letter of recommendation that explicitly mentions that i know what a DOS is
<midfavila> which is kind of funny
<midfavila> if only letters and compliments paid rent
* midfavila dies
<midfavila> one of my friends IRL suggested that I set up a small-scale software engineering firm
<illiliti> handyman - in my area they are called anykey
<midfavila> one that primarily focuses on solving "real" problems, so to speak. issues that people face, not companies
<midfavila> illiliti, do most handymen in your area do lockpicking then?
<illiliti> haha no
<midfavila> but yeah re: software firm, an easy example is this: a friend of mine wanted to export his data from youtube and then set up a system where he can easily follow his favorite artists and retrieve their media without needing to open a browser
<midfavila> so i helped him set up an RSS system, and then put together a little package of... basically just shell scripts, including an older version of invcli, to help him with that
<midfavila> i can kind of see where he's coming from with the idea
<midfavila> but even that's still a really shaky concept
<midfavila> ...i'd also feel bad accepting money for it because it's kind of trivial..?
<illiliti> i feel same sometimes
<illiliti> i once refused to accept money for just helping to setup letsencrypt for some local website
* midfavila nods
<midfavila> i have a friend who does that sort of stuff all the time and he takes loads of cash from people for shit as simple as teaching them how to use google
<midfavila> not even like, advanced searches or anything
<midfavila> literally just "here's how to open chrome, navigate to the google homepage, and do basic searches without wiring your retirement fund to a nigerian prince"
<midfavila> the part that really rubs me the wrong way with him is that he mostly does that with this older guy
<illiliti> yeah that feels immoral
<midfavila> he does a lot of stuff like that. he's very much a free market type
<midfavila> every time i speak to him he usually says something like "well it's their money, they can spend it how they choose"
<midfavila> which like, fair, but also fuck off
<Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> "oh, by the way, something else i..." <- This kind of interests me, I was trying to package lfs earlier, but I suck
<Ellowee[m]> I honestly wanted to go full lfs but I still lack a lot of the skills for that
<midfavila> honestly unless you're going to develop en entire distro from scratch and you have the time and skills necessary to do so, don't bother
<midfavila> at this point even for that i'd say just fork kiss' base
<illiliti> lfs basically a downgrade of kiss
<illiliti> kiss is already more-or-less lfs
<midfavila> indeed
<midfavila> ...gonna be honest though, the idea of working on a port of LFS to KISS (weird thought) is in part to assist in porting CDE
<midfavila> getting CDE to run on my current setup is a massive pain
<midfavila> in part because it's getting really crusty and in part because it's blatantly non-compliant with standards
<dot[m]1> seems like that message posted really late
<midfavila> no, I just have a habit of jumping between multiple threads of conversation
<midfavila> also sometimes i post and then work on something and then think of something else i want to say
* midfavila shrugs
<dot[m]1> hey guys this is random but what do you think of desktop environments
<dot[m]1> or at least, the big 3
<dot[m]1> gnome kde xfce
<midfavila> harmful, krashes, doesn't make me want to shoot myself, respectively
<illiliti> mid can't you just put up ads like "hi! i'm fixing computer problems. here's my number" all around and hope for the best?
<illiliti> basically do what that guy does but with your moral standards
<illiliti> or putting up ads like that is illegal in ca? i don't know honestly
<midfavila> at some point it would need to be incorporated for tax purposes
<midfavila> it'd be one thing if it was just a few times a month on the side for extra cash, it'd be a whole other thing if it was my primary income
<midfavila> also, nobody uses regular computers around here, also also i don't have any of my tools any more or the money to get more
<illiliti> tax yes.. how can i forget
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<aelspire> Hi
<aelspire> midfavila: I've told you about my brother's friend who is cutting high trees and makes more than us
<midfavila> sure, but I'm neither willing nor able to do that right now
<aelspire> I think you are too focused on programming, and don't see the fact that you do not marry your job forever
<midfavila> perhaps.
<midfavila> it's not like programming is what i want to do long term.
<aelspire> even if you want programming other jobs will bring money so you can pay for some bullshit training with bullshit cert
<aelspire> HR like bullshit certs
<midfavila> but see, here's the thing, I'm not willing to pay for bullshit
<midfavila> i'm not going to jump through hoops so i can have the privilege of jumping through hoops for chump change all day
<midfavila> that's fucking stupid
<aelspire> yeah
<midfavila> i'm more than willing to spend money on actually useful training
<midfavila> like i dropped 70$ on a mathematics course last night
<aelspire> but everything seems it is what World works
<midfavila> and if i had more cash to spare i'd be buying other credits related to that stuff too
<aelspire> and I don't understand this too
<midfavila> i think being able to show up to a job with a pile of credits from ivy league institutions and a decent portfolio would mean more than having a bunch of stupid certs, personalyl
<midfavila> personally, even
<aelspire> math is actually valuable skill depending on where you are
<midfavila> that's part of what i was trying to communicate, sorry if that got lost somewhere
<aelspire> is there any private tutoring for kids in your area?
<aelspire> this is quite popular in poland
<midfavila> lmao, it's funny you suggest that to me of all people
<midfavila> i could probably get tutoring from the high schoolers. my mathematics knowledge is *abysmal*
<aelspire> hmm
<midfavila> i have basically zero formal education of any kind. on *paper* i'm college-educated, but in practice, i've basically gotten through life thus far on grit and luck alone
<midfavila> unfortunately that's not a very sustainable strategy
<aelspire> how are you formally educated on paper only?
<midfavila> long story short i only got into high school by challenging the requirements because my primary school education was, uh... well, that's a story unto itself. secondary, i had to drop out after the first half of ninth grade to work so i could support myself
<aelspire> if you think that you will learn something in collage/university you are wrong
<midfavila> graduated from secondary by challenging the requirements for tenth, eleventh and twelfth grade consecutively and did that in about two or three months, then had to use that credential to get into a college because it was no good for uni
<midfavila> and i mean, maybe
<midfavila> i think a lot of stuff in uni is bullshit
<aelspire> I had lessons in renoved university that was memorisation of datasheets of 74xx chips
<midfavila> see, by taking individual classes online instead of enrolling in an institution i can avoid that stuff
<Ellowee[m]> In US, anything beyond highschool is indoctrination camp, you'd have to fly elsewhere for actual higher level edu
<aelspire> because very important professor known only this and losing such important guy was too much as he was friend with big shots
<midfavila> maybe it's a blessing that i don't qualify for university then
<Ellowee[m]> * beyond highschool (which is, * is also being ruined) is indoctrination camp,
<midfavila> qualify or not though i can still get credits through EdX, which should be plenty to prove that i'm competent
<aelspire> yup
<aelspire> so uni is bullshit cert too
<midfavila> not really.
<midfavila> if you want to learn, say, higher level mathematics, having a qualified teacher and a structured environment helps immensely with that
<midfavila> or... learning anything, really
<aelspire> yup
<midfavila> whether what you're learning is valuable is another topic
<midfavila> but i've tried the whole self-study math thing in particular and it hasn't really worked so far
<aelspire> I learned more in dorm than on lessons or wtf it was called
<midfavila> my life is unironically dependency hell right now
<aelspire> as when you put many young geeks in one place
<aelspire> things happen
<sewn> what if u KISS_FORCE=1 kiss r bad
<midfavila> i want to do Z, but I need to know Y, and to do Y I need X and C, and those need A, B, D, and F, in turn that needs E, and so on and so forth
<midfavila> and i just keep bouncing between things without ever really learning anything
<aelspire> yeah
<aelspire> but I think starting with math is good
<aelspire> math is not usable on its own
<aelspire> but not knowing math will bite your ass no matter where you will work
<midfavila> mmh. right now I've signed up for college algebra and geometry, as well as classes on first-order logic, rhetoric, and basic CS
<midfavila> after that, precalc, then calc, then linear algebra, then multivariable calc, and... at that point I think I can just learn what I need to as I need it
<aelspire> sewn: what did you broke?
<midfavila> the really important part is getting to a point where i'm mathematically developed enough to actually make use of my textbooks...
<sewn> i broke life cuz i wasnt supposed to
<aelspire> deep
<aelspire> uni's math was hell of the ride and I was called smart in my little town
<aelspire> so brace yourself
<midfavila> yeah, i'm anticipating something like that to happen
<midfavila> especially given i have...
* midfavila checks calendar
<midfavila> ...maybe five months tops to get my shit in gear
<midfavila> not expecting to master much of anything in that timeframe
<aelspire> nah
<sewn> though why not look into just advancing cs for the big companies by getting shitty certificates
<aelspire> we had recap of whole HS's math on first lesson in uni
<midfavila> because computer science is just a field of mathematics, and like any other field it has its own prereqs
<aelspire> and it was only worse later on
<midfavila> aelspire, what's a recap for you is entirely new material for me
<aelspire> and was for some guys on my uni too
<sewn> midfavila: if you know your target job i wouldnt imagine you'd need mathematics
<aelspire> as we have something like separate HS for guys who want to go to uni later and school that gives you technican title
<sewn> its only really useful if you're doing three dimensional management etc
<aelspire> and the later was not so full on math like normal HS
<aelspire> and many guys was from the later type of HS
<aelspire> so first math was shock for them
<aelspire> but it is doable
<midfavila> sewn, in order to have a sufficiently strong understanding of data structures and algorithms, a prereq for any serious programming career, you need to understand how to rigorously analyze and consider the properties of such entities. this requires calculus, among other things, which in turn depends on precalc, algebra, and so on. at least to my understanding.
<aelspire> whole HS's math in one week before exam
<midfavila> hm
<aelspire> not easy but doable
<midfavila> well, it wouldn't surprise me
<midfavila> the question is how much of that will be retained...
<aelspire> not much
<midfavila> and therein lies the problem
<midfavila> i'm doing this to both improve my career prospects and to improve as a person
<aelspire> but you will have whole internet later on
<aelspire> it suffice that something rings the bell
<midfavila> i don't want to be one of those drooling type twos that can't program without an internet connection, though
<aelspire> you can find the details on internet
<midfavila> i want to be able to actually figure shit out for myself
<aelspire> you will be
<aelspire> but not on the beginning
<aelspire> have right expectation about what is achievable
<midfavila> a good idea to be sure, but i don't even know what i need, let alone what i can do
<aelspire> seeking deeper knowledge is good
<midfavila> looking at university undergraduate curriculae also doesn't help because they're all over the place
<aelspire> first thing that you will need to know as programmer
<aelspire> this job is not so great
<midfavila> i don't think that it is
<midfavila> but it's not retail
<aelspire> JavaScript will find you and hurt you
<aelspire> because everybody and his dog want webapp now
<aelspire> and buzzwords like M$ Azure will find you too
<midfavila> if i have to start with JS then I will
<midfavila> like I said, intermediate
<midfavila> i just need the money
<aelspire> sure so the mindset is right
<midfavila> the endgame has always been and will always be systems development and security auditing
<midfavila> former for myself, latter as a career. if i have to use the web i'll fucking tear it apart as much as i goddamn can
<aelspire> the most projects in work sucks so bad that programmers do their own toy project to regain their motivation and to not hate programming as a whole
<midfavila> my approach to "work" is that for my shift my employer owns me. short of it being an actually meaningful project, i'll do what i'm told
<midfavila> no more, no less
<aelspire> good
<midfavila> you want me to write some shitty website's backend? fine, but don't expect it on a silver platter.
<aelspire> to tell the truth I'm happy with my work as I work close to eco-industry
<aelspire> so I'm not forced to do any dark patterns or suck moneys from users
<midfavila> ...well, at that point I would request a transfer
<aelspire> as users pay premium for premium care
<midfavila> i dunno. right now i'm looking for software testing roles
<midfavila> that's something i can do with my current skillset, it pays well, and it can be done remotely
<aelspire> so I'm in pretty good situation, but most of my friends not so much
<midfavila> it leaves enough time for me to focus on developing myself, too
<midfavila> and yeah, i imagine
<aelspire> testing is good
<aelspire> I spend around 90% of time testing my code and the testing job never ends
<midfavila> i also imagine that testing would be an easy move to programming proper
<aelspire> and other people are testing this later
<aelspire> yup
<midfavila> qa->development->???->profit
<aelspire> this path could work
<aelspire> I think
<midfavila> well, if i do part-time QA for a few years that'll be enough for me to save up a pretty penny, and enough time for me to get a solid amount of learning done
<midfavila> not to mention i'll be able to properly flesh out some of my projects, for use in a portfolio
<aelspire> portfolio in programming?
<midfavila> might as well.
<midfavila> if i'm going to sperg out about X11 toolkits and IRC clients I might as well use it as an example of what I can do.
<midfavila> ...which isn't much right now, but I'm also a mess right now, so... things will improve.
<aelspire> have you ever been interested in demoscene?
<midfavila> not really
<aelspire> flashy porfolios might be better
<midfavila> ...well, actually, not at all
<aelspire> than actually useable ones
<midfavila> "flashy" is the last word i want anyone to use to describe anything I do, but yeah, i know
<midfavila> it's easier to dazzle with demos than proper tools
<aelspire> yup
<midfavila> but I just can't get passionate about demos
<aelspire> and most of the times you need to impress the HR first
<aelspire> than actual engineers
<midfavila> well, i'm hoping in part that that's what the credentials will accomplish
<midfavila> of course, if i can successfully appeal to my province's director of social services, I might be able to get another round of funding and enrollment into a security bootcamp, which... while not outstanding, is better than what my college offered
<midfavila> at which point i might just be able to skip the testing->development->security thing entirely
<midfavila> which would be pretty nice
<aelspire> actual developers would hire you without batting the eye if shown that your's git commit messages are actually helpful
<aelspire> but guys in HR does the preselection… and I'm not sure if they know what git is most of the time
* midfavila shrugs
<illiliti> impress the hr -> humiliate yourself
<midfavila> i won't humiliate myself, nor will I lie or waste my time. i refuse to bend the knee.
<midfavila> i'm not going to oversell or undersell myself. i intend to say exactly what i can do and what i want. if that doesn't get me a job, then I don't want to work there.
<aelspire> not exactly humilate yourself
<aelspire> call it marketing
<midfavila> i can't "market".
<aelspire> show right things to right guys
<midfavila> i'm a horrible liar.
<aelspire> thats the con in todays horrible society
<midfavila> my approach to marketing is pretty horrible because it assumes people care about quality. "do it better than the other guy".
<midfavila> but it's all I've got.
<aelspire> industry cares
<aelspire> they will use soft on 8051 if it is proven
<aelspire> industry is like the last sane island on the loony ocean
<aelspire> as they actually makes money
<aelspire> by producing things that have value
<aelspire> so the math is easy here - if it works and do not crashes even if looks like shit it gets job done
<aelspire> flashy things that causes ton of problems are out
<illiliti> "how do you see yourself in the next five years?"
<illiliti> hate these questions
<aelspire> stare recruiter deep in the eyes and ask: "The script is forcing you to ask this question and you know how big this bullshit is, isn't it?"
<illiliti> i don't know whether the country will not dissolve into pieces in the next year and you ask about me bitch
<illiliti> sometimes i wanna reply like that
<aelspire> illiliti: where are you from that such existential dread fills you?
<illiliti> ru
<aelspire> oh man
<aelspire> my condolences
<aelspire> situation is so bad that ru falling off is on the table?
<midfavila> well
<midfavila> putin is wanted by interpol now
<midfavila> so
* midfavila shrugs?
<aelspire> I hope that good people will somehow manage to survive
<midfavila> russia moment
<aelspire> not all russian are bad and politics are shit everywhere
<midfavila> ofc
<aelspire> not they fault that they are born in country where politican are shitter than average
<illiliti> ru will definitely fall off. how hard and loud is hard to say
<aelspire> oh fuck
<aelspire> next global depression which will make wages even lower…
<aelspire> and prices even higher
<midfavila> o h b o y
<clemens3> in five years I will be your boss and kick your ass
<aelspire> ok, topic change as it got too dark
<aelspire> what about GTK4 in KISS
<midfavila> kiss already has wayland so you might as well commit to being nu-*nix
<aelspire> GTK4 want to use OpenGL by default
<aelspire> which depends on GLX
<aelspire> which depends on X
<aelspire> so I needed to patch it to use OpenGL ES by default
<aelspire> but I thing this insanity will come sooner or later
<testuser[m]> Hello <name>, apologies but it seems you are not subscribed to our air bag service. Please enter your banking details below to subscribe to the service.
<aelspire> yuck
<aelspire> don't terrify me with so accurate predictions
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<midfavila> real big brain move is to live in an area where you don't need an air bag service
* midfavila nods
<aelspire> you guys die like real men?
<midfavila> no, i just don't drive lmao
<midfavila> i walk everywhere
<midfavila> i'm lucky enough to be in an area where that's feasible
<midfavila> ...when it's not freezing cold outside
<aelspire> yup, have been in USA
<midfavila> i'm not american >.>
* midfavila huffs
<aelspire> it was first time I've seen place where you cannot go everythere by foot
<aelspire> I know
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<midfavila> honestly if my city's pubtrans wasn't complete ass you wouldn't need a car here at all
<aelspire> but this travel was eye opener for me
* midfavila nods
<aelspire> I thought that USA was something like promised land where everything is great
<aelspire> got there
<aelspire> aand
<aelspire> the same shit as here but worse
<midfavila> yeap
<Ellowee[m]> Cities should be made for bikes
<midfavila> agreed
<midfavila> there's a push for that here
<aelspire> I love bikes
<midfavila> next-gen city concept or something
<midfavila> idea is that you can leave your house and walk anywhere you might need to do daily errands within fifteen minutes
<aelspire> you can here
<aelspire> maybe fifteen minutes is scretching it
<midfavila> yeah it's kind of amusing that they're calling it "next-gen" or whatever when that's how cities have been built traditionally
<illiliti> bikes need bike lines
<aelspire> but half hour will do
<midfavila> honestly NA in general just needs to fucking *slow down*
<midfavila> anyway i need lunch
<midfavila> going to make quesas again i think
<aelspire> you cannot go wrong with grilled cheese isn't it?
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<aelspire> illiliti: bikes don't need bike lanes but it helps
<aelspire> bikes need sane traffic laws so they are not treated as second-category citizen
<aelspire> road is public and should be wide enough so drives could pass me without waiting and that's it
<illiliti> bikes need lines to not annoy or potentially hurt people
<aelspire> the main problem is when the road is narrow
<aelspire> and roads often are narrow…
<illiliti> yes
<illiliti> does that people that people should walk on the road?
<illiliti> mean*
<aelspire> that is different
<dot[m]1> illiliti: not really safe i think
<aelspire> people are walking super slow and I thing city centers should be for people mainly, not even for bikes if it is hard to do
<dot[m]1> i like bikes
<aelspire> but I can go 40km/hr on my bike so I put myself closer to car than walking people
<dot[m]1> wait, what about scooters
<aelspire> on road
<aelspire> bikes and other weird new things are in gray zone
<aelspire> it depend on speed IMHO
<aelspire> in my country there is law that you can ride bike/small electric scooter on pavement if you match the speed of walking person
<aelspire> not ideal
<dot[m]1> aelspire: really
<aelspire> but sane
<dot[m]1> also i didnt really mean electric scooters lol, i meant scooters like the ones from childhood
<aelspire> and I mean electric scooters
<dot[m]1> welp both should be fine
<dot[m]1> theyre.. kind of the same? just a bit more modern?
<aelspire> law treats it differently there
<aelspire> something like this is ok
<aelspire> this one not ok
<aelspire> later one need some kind of driving licence if it can go over 45 km/h
<dot[m]1> aelspire:
<dot[m]1> lmao
<aelspire> searched for images only
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<aelspire> but the best bike lanes are in Belgium from what I heard
<aelspire> never been there so don't quote me but friend was
<illiliti> what really annoys me is not bikes but cars driving and parking on sidewalk
<aelspire> yup
<aelspire> I often see drivers treating bike lanes like parking space
<aelspire> or sidewalks
<illiliti> yes this one too
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<aelspire> the real problem is that car culture is downward slippery slope
<aelspire> public transport dies because everybody has a car
<aelspire> now everybody really need to have a car
<illiliti> cars are supposed to die soon
<aelspire> it will probably will be not so soon
<aelspire> but I'm not smart on this topic
<aelspire> but here having care is still something like bare minimum prestige
<aelspire> so this culture will not let go too soon
<aelspire> I hope that electric scooters will help somehow
<aelspire> I have "fat battery" so I prefer using it than external one
<aelspire> but people are lazy so want to go from A to B with bare minimum effort
<aelspire> and electric scooter does that
<aelspire> and less cars is always welcome
<illiliti> people want to park their car in front of the home door to not walk too far
<illiliti> usually on sidewalk
<aelspire> he he he, that too
<illiliti> like that
<illiliti> pretty normal here
<aelspire> what?
<aelspire> thats creazy
<midfavila> aelspire: basically mexican grilled cheese
<midfavila> take a tortilla and a little oil of your choice, throw the oil in a pan on medium, fry the tortilla in it until it starts to bubble slightly, then flip, and layer cheese->ingredient-of-choice until you have all your stuff you want on it
<aelspire> I searched on internet
<aelspire> I like grilled cheese too
<midfavila> throw one last layer of cheese on, fold, then flip and grill for a few seconds to close and you're done
<aelspire> but we eat it on bread dipped in egg usually
<midfavila> i like quesas because they're a) relatively cheap, b) relatively easy, c) (can be) relatively healthy
<midfavila> i've been meaning to make chili at some point
<aelspire> my country cuisine is not so great, I'm jealous of italians
<aelspire> any guy from italy here?
<illiliti> riteo is from italy afaik
<illiliti> not here atm
<aelspire> why they have pizzas and pastas when we have weird soups that no one excepts us want to eat?
<aelspire> life is not fair…
<aelspire> midfavila: chili looks like curry
<midfavila> it's not dissimilar
<midfavila> you could describe chili as a very thick curry, or like a cross between a curry and a stew
<midfavila> usually chili is quite spicy
<aelspire> hmm
<midfavila> also not usually as paste-like as curry
<aelspire> so no chili
<aelspire> but quesadilla might be something my family will eat
<aelspire> I'm in care of cooking
<midfavila> well, you can make chili without hot peppers
<midfavila> it's still really good
<midfavila> i just like spicy food
<midfavila> and yeah, quesas are amazing
<aelspire> my wife will not touch anything with chili pepper in it
<aelspire> paprika?
<aelspire> pepper is spice
<midfavila> lmao
<midfavila> >chili pepper being spicy
<midfavila> you can use whatever you want in a chili if you really wanna
<aelspire> I used wrong word
<aelspire> I think
<midfavila> well, paprika and pepper are spices
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> anyway i'm only making fun of her :p
<midfavila> lots of people here can't handle chili peppers either
<midfavila> i don't even find it hot, personally
<midfavila> i need to go up to bonnets to get my kicks
<aelspire> people have different tastebuds
<aelspire> scots almost have me tasting haggis
<aelspire> their beloved prang
<aelspire> prank*
<aelspire> feed haggis to unsuspecting victim and after the fact tell them what it is
<midfavila> pff
* illiliti is boring person in regards to food
<aelspire> the only food I've found on wiki that have "Legality" section
<illiliti> my best is meat dumplings
<midfavila> meat dumplings are amazing
<midfavila> i need to learn to make them
<aelspire> yeah meat dumplings
<midfavila> i want to make perogi at some point too
<aelspire> pierogi is actually easy but need muscle power
<midfavila> i had a friend in poland i once sent an ugly sweater to that said "you bet your perogi i'm polish"
<midfavila> it was like five sizes too big for him
<midfavila> was pretty funny
<illiliti> pierogi
<illiliti> how weird to type this word in english
<aelspire> yes
<midfavila> is it pie-rogi? huh
<aelspire> and I've seen paczek in USA
<illiliti> i remember my grandma was making them when i was a kid
<aelspire> like, guys you can even pronunce it?
<sewn> <aelspire> "what about GTK4 in KISS" <- gtk4 is impossible
<sewn> dont try
<aelspire> I tried and did?
<sewn> without like
<sewn> doing it kiss style
<aelspire> and what is KISS style?
<sewn> like removing the useless depends that gtk3 removes such as atk n such
<sewn> ?
<sewn> interesting no atk depend
<aelspire> I didn't removed anything
<aelspire> it was just not necessary?
<sewn> very nic
<aelspire> it compiled and didn't complained
<aelspire> and I'm using transmission-gtk
<aelspire> currently on 4.02
<aelspire> so it looks like working
<aelspire> you when you have X on KISS will not need the patch with GLES
<aelspire> as you should have libGL and libOpenGL
<aelspire> > I didn't removed anything it was about ATK
<aelspire> I removed fribidi and backtraces
<sewn> cat emoji
<midfavila> english motherfucker
<midfavila> do you speak it
<sewn> no i do not
<illiliti> aelspire: i can, though i pronounce it in russian cuz english pronunciation is weird to me
<aelspire> yup but they have the right word already
<aelspire> donuts
<aelspire> but was using original one with original spelling
<aelspire> so I was shocked
<aelspire> like english was everywhere and started to switch my mind to using it to thinging too
<aelspire> and bam
<aelspire> plate with "Pączki" on it
<aelspire> sign*
<illiliti> donut is a bit different, no? it always has one form(circle with a hole) but pierog can be anything
<aelspire> I'm telling about pączkek/pączki
<aelspire> we call it just donuts when translating to english
<aelspire> but in USA they are somewhat something completly different
<illiliti> hmm, i would call it simply bun
<midfavila> yeah idk that just looks like a donut to me
<illiliti> булочка
<midfavila> but "donut" is also a pretty broad term
<midfavila> "bun" works too, but usually buns are savory
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<aelspire> savory?
<midfavila> "meaty", for lack of a better term
<aelspire> my online dictionary went insane
<aelspire> and shows this as savory
<aelspire> herb
<aelspire> like thyme
<midfavila> thyme is kind of savory, yeah
<midfavila> basil can be, as well
<midfavila> tomato is a good example of a savory food
<midfavila> turkey stuffing, too
<aelspire> so the non-sweet kind of food?
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<midfavila> yeah, i guess that's one way to phrase it
<illiliti> so weird.
<illiliti> never thought that food names can vary so much in languages
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> another term in english used to refer to that kind of food is "umami"
<midfavila> it's a japanese word
<aelspire> yeah languages are weird
<aelspire> slavic languages sounds similar but "false friends" will hunt
<aelspire> you
<aelspire> some are pretty funny
<aelspire> I remember from russian lesson one pretty weird
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<aelspire> caviar in can
<aelspire> in polish: kawior w puszce which means carpet in cannon in russian
<illiliti> bruh
<aelspire> and better never tell czech that you are looking for his wife
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<midfavila> kek
<midfavila> only slavic language i'm really interested in learning at all is bulgarian
<aelspire> all are fucked
<aelspire> all grammar forms of word "play" in polish
<aelspire> most of slavic langs have the same problem
<aelspire> english was not choosen as international lang without reason
<aelspire> but there is funny channel on youtube where french man comments english lang
<aelspire> thats one is better
<sewn> <illiliti> "булочка" <- @Ogromny wake up
<acidbong> Slavs in the chat? 🌚
<aelspire> I've blocked my local meme site on my PC to stay productive to now relying on internet people to keep me amused ;)
<aelspire> s/to/so
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<aelspire> bye
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<sewn> aelspire ran out of internet people to keep him amused
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