ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unnofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<midfavila> >mfw autotools expects the system's implementation of cat to only ever be unbuffered
<midfavila> *all* they had to do was specify -u
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<Torr> Lol
<Torr> Where's that from
<Torr> ?
<midfavila> where's what from? the -u option, my complaint, or..?
<midfavila> btw, phoebos, to add to our conversation a little while ago about athena,
<midfavila> there are a number of athena-based programs here, if you ever wanted to look
<midfavila> i've only explored the status directory thus far
<Torr> The error msg.
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<midfavila> oh
<midfavila> it fails to generate config.status when the system's cat implementation buffers output
<midfavila> or, at least, it throws that error
<Torr> Generator build systems tend to bring those problems =P
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<rohan> has anyone tested river?
<rohan> is it better than sway?
<wael[m]> I would say try dwl
<rohan> is more "lightweight" ?
<wael[m]> obviously, as it isn't written in Zig
<Torr> Leaving here, see y'll.
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<sereg> was gonna make a westfold joke as gondor but couldn't figure out how to relate it to WMs
<wael[m]> just say it
<testuser[m]> Hi
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<wael[m]> Hi
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<sad_plan> o/
<wael[m]> \o
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<virutalmachineus> o/
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<phoebos> testuser[m]: nice one
<phoebos> you could use equ rather than [ though
<phoebos> midfavila: ooh thanks. always interested in more athena programs
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<wael[m]> personally I would use fzy with a scratchpad terminal
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<midfavila> phoebos, same
<midfavila> there's very few athena programs that seems to be both of real use and small enough to understand and learn from
<midfavila> it's unfortunate
<midfavila> speaking of,
<midfavila> could you guys keep an eye out for ancient versions of aewm? it apparently used xaw once upon a time
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<wael[m]> til toybox is incompatible with kisslinux init scripts
<testuser[m]> send
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<wael[m]> send what
<testuser[m]> L o g
<wael[m]> how
<wael[m]> rc.boot line 10 toybox warn, line 57 broken option (fsck is 'unstable' in toybox), line 70 fail to remount, line 74, -a doesn't exist
<testuser[m]> Send
<testuser[m]> Screenshot
<wael[m]> give me a momeny
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<wael[m]> phoebos illiliti: sad_plan:
<illiliti> that's expected
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<wael[m]> mount -a isn't a real flag?
<wael[m]> and if that's true, then the same is for swapon?
<sad_plan> mount -a mounts everything in fstab
<sad_plan> swapon -a is the same
<wael[m]> swapon -a in toybox doesn't exist
<sad_plan> no, but thats what it should do
<illiliti> use util-linux. toybox is incomplete and barely usable
<sad_plan> also, fsck -a on toybox doesnt exist. so youd have to patch out the -a
<sad_plan> so fsck -ATt instead of -AaTt
<wael[m]> if I were to do that I'd use ubase, I tried out toybox purely only for 2 or 5 programs that have features that aren't in sbase
<wael[m]> sad_plan: that is what I did, I reverted it for the picture
<illiliti> i'm not sure that toybox fsck will work at all. it is essentially stubbed
<sad_plan> dilyn used it, so it does work
<illiliti> ok
<wael[m]> it remounts fine but fails at mount -a no?
<sad_plan> iirc, mount -a fails, but its a non-fatal error though
<wael[m]> still causes the boot process to be interrupted lol
<sad_plan> it does. really annoying. could just pass || continue though
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<wael[m]> my swap tho :(
<sad_plan> I did that earlier on a project, and it did work
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<sad_plan> youd have to specify the swap partition manually
<sad_plan> instead of swapon -a
<sad_plan> that also works
<wael[m]> its a swapfile
<wael[m]> oh yeah true
<wael[m]> bit of a hassle isn't it
<sad_plan> sure, but you could just make bootscript to enable it instead
<wael[m]> boot hook you mean?
<sad_plan> yeah
<wael[m]> well boot hooks are executed after swapon is initiated so
<wael[m]> if I'm going to modify the init scripts I might as well just override them as well
<wael[m]> will need also a ||continue I guess
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<sad_plan> its what I used when messing with toybox
<wael[m]> do you even still use toybox?
<sad_plan> not atm no, but at some time, Ive been using it, yes
<wael[m]> how was it
<wael[m]> and what did you switch to afterwards
<wael[m]> I assume busybox lol
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<sad_plan> busybox yes, as I completly borked my system at one point
<sad_plan> ip also doesnt work btw, if you didnt already notice..
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<sad_plan> is there any requirements for calling the shutdown init script?
<sad_plan> cant I just call it in a script or something?
<midfavila> speaking of low-level applications/high-level systems programming,
<midfavila> if any of you guys were interested in learning about it, I've been reading a book simply called "Unix: The Textbook" recently
<midfavila> purports to offer a complete introduction to the use and programming of unix systems, including csh, bash, python, C, the use of sockets, etc
<midfavila> also discusses the use of debuggers and such, among other common dev tools
<sad_plan> that does sound interesting indeed
* midfavila nod-nods
<midfavila> it covers PC-BSD and Solaris, though, which is a little unusual for a book published in 2016
<midfavila> still, the book seems to have both breadth and depth
<midfavila> ~1200ish pages
<wael[m]> sad_plan: if ip is literally broken I'm going to switch back to ubase
<midfavila> suckless doesn't provide ip or ifconfig
<wael[m]> wait wtf what did theb
<wael[m]> then
<wael[m]> or what does
<midfavila> busybox probably
<midfavila> i use net-tools
<wael[m]> true
<midfavila> yeah so like
<wael[m]> what's net-tools
<midfavila> oh
<midfavila> net-tools is the original distribution of internetworking utilities for linux
<midfavila> predates iputils
<midfavila> (I don't like ip)
<sad_plan> or just use iproute2 or something
<wael[m]> hmmmm
<wael[m]> the only reason I switched to toybox is literally no `ls` colors lol
<midfavila> okay but
<midfavila> that's a superfluous feature
<wael[m]> what's superfluous
<sad_plan> I mean, colors is nice, so its easier to differentiate different files, but still. its not detrimental. im fine without it imo
<wael[m]> I CANNOT go without it
<midfavila> wael[m], unnecessary or excessive
<midfavila> see dict(1)
<wael[m]> I need colors or I'll become emotionless and dreadful
<wael[m]> is that a real man page
<midfavila> uh, yes
<midfavila> dict(1) is a DICT client
<midfavila> fetches definitions for words
<wael[m]> not for me
<midfavila> install dict then
<wael[m]> not found
<midfavila> packaged as dictd in my repos, maybe someone else has their own package
<midfavila> anyway for what it's worth, you could probably patch sbase ls to display colors pretty easily
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<wael[m]> forgot to mention sbase kinda breaks with big packages I need
<wael[m]> notably sed lol
<wael[m]> also missing -v flags in cp rm ln which are for verbosity
<wael[m]> I do not track my $? all the time so I got confused why stuff didn't work, but -v tells me what went wrong
<sad_plan> what features from sed is missing? besides -i, but its not posix so its not unexpected that its missing
<wael[m]> last time I've seen an error is missing sed functions
<wael[m]> it is also impossible to compile toybox from an sbase system
<sad_plan> probably because toybox targets gnu compability.
<sad_plan> and sbase targets posix
<sad_plan> so theyre not really aligned target wise. which is sortof also why Im choosing to not use toybox. I dont care for gnu tools
<sad_plan> hence me checking out other projects
<wael[m]> fair
<wael[m]> testuser:
<wael[m]> I also sort of gave up with the POSIX shell patch for toybox because I couldn't get one line and one line only right
<sad_plan> which line was that?
<wael[m]> its in scripts/ where it tries to compare the configuration file newer than this that yada yada
<wael[m]> the original POSIX patch for toybox didn't work for some reason
<sad_plan> ah, yeah I had issues with that aswell
<wael[m]> line 275
<sad_plan> that because since that has been created, toybox has changed drastically. the patch is getting rather old
<wael[m]> yeah lol
<wael[m]> it works fine in local but not in a clean state like in kiss build
<wael[m]> yeah I updated it somewhat
<wael[m]> its just THAT ONE line
<wael[m]> that one line has been unchanged since the POSIX patch so its a bit confusing
<sad_plan> I actually tried to cheat my way out of if by using only the updated .c files, but to no avail. it didnt build
<sad_plan> then I dunno.
<wael[m]> funkybox
<midfavila> sad_plan, if you're looking for POSIX userland tools, I'm (slowly) working on a collection of them right now
<midfavila> goals are SUS compatibility and ease of maintenance over performance or GNU compatibility
<sad_plan> im interested. im currently eying sbase, k9core, and baseutils, the openbsd port
<midfavila> i can only speak to sbase; with minimal supplementation, it works quite nicely
<sad_plan> however, right now im trying to figure out how I can properly call the rc.shutdown script. calling it manually, or via a script, does not seem to work for some reason..
<sad_plan> yeah, sbase seems fine, but I would like something else, just for the sake of choosing something else, but im initially fine with sbase. its simple enough, and works
<sad_plan> thus baseutils and k9core. I also looked at phoebos' bore repo, but it doesnt contain alot of utils yet
<midfavila> m{e,p,u}-utils is pretty barren at the moment too
<midfavila> my systems programming knowledge and computer science knowledge are both too limited for me to handle more than the most basic of coreutils
<midfavila> hoping that book i mentioned earlier will get me up to the point of being able to write some more programs
<sad_plan> yeah..
<midfavila> still need to finish echo at some point too
<midfavila> SUS mandates that you be able to octal escape characters
<sad_plan> I was planing on figuring this stuff out, and then *lock* myself to this setup, aslong as it actually works, and get started on actually learning programming. I got a fairly ok workflow these days.
<sad_plan> what is SUS?
<midfavila> the Single UNIX Specification
<sad_plan> aah
<midfavila> it's an extension to POSIX necessary to attain UNIX certification
<midfavila> unlike POSIX, it *does* specify things like UI, and some utilities work differently
<sad_plan> I belive Ive actually heard of that someplace. maybe from you. I dont recall
<midfavila> probably me
<midfavila> idk if many people these days care about SUS
<sad_plan> yeah, most likely you :P
<wael[m]> what's k9core?
<sad_plan> its a minimal coreutilites
<sad_plan> ill fetch the link
<midfavila> their ls also lacks colors
<midfavila> just so you know
<midfavila> :P
<sad_plan> phoebos' fork. the upstream doesnt have any updates that his doesnt
<sad_plan> midfavila: lol
<wael[m]> so does baseutils too
<wael[m]> fuck
<wael[m]> fycj
<sad_plan> why do you even need these colors anyway?
<sad_plan> why are they so important?
<wael[m]> is there seriously no coreutils that has ls colors
<midfavila> not many
<wael[m]> its a convenience
<midfavila> like I said, it's kind of a superfluous feature
<midfavila> not important
<wael[m]> I can suffice it for a little indicator in text
<wael[m]> similar to 9base
<sad_plan> what, k9core is strange. ls with no flags or dirs, will just output nothing
<sad_plan> thats unexpected
<wael[m]> bruh thats worse than no colors
<midfavila> yeah, k9 is...
<midfavila> ...bad?
<midfavila> mediocre?
<midfavila> sub-optimal.
<phoebos> i wouldn't use k9core
<wael[m]> so why is it on the watchlist
<midfavila> I can't fault them for trying, but at least parse your arguments properly
<phoebos> it was educational at best
<sad_plan> hm, ok, ill scratch that from the list then :p
<midfavila> you don't have many options for coreutils if you expect ls to output in color
<midfavila> it's like
<midfavila> GNU and Busybox
<midfavila> and that's it
<wael[m]> toybox.
<midfavila> toybox isn't complete
<sad_plan> phoebos: I noticed you forked baseutils. were you planing on doing anything more with it? I noticed you fixed the fcommon stuff
<wael[m]> like come on its such a basic feature!!
<wael[m]> true
<midfavila> oh
<wael[m]> phoebos is aabacuss?
<sad_plan> yes
<midfavila> i suppose i should mention my other goal for my utils:
<wael[m]> makes sense
<midfavila> compile without errors under tcc and cproc
<midfavila> and pass SPLint checks
<phoebos> sad_plan: just that fix. otherwise, use openbsd
<wael[m]> midfavila: what is SPLint
<sad_plan> ah ok
<phoebos> gotta plug
<wael[m]> a shellcheck for C?
<midfavila> wael[m], SPLint is an extension to the traditional lint utility
<wael[m]> does it have ls
<midfavila> wael[m], yes, basically
<midfavila> it's capable of both static and dynamic analysis
<sad_plan> phoebos: yeah, I did notice that one. but its not very complete :p
<wael[m]> oo interesting
<sad_plan> atleast lacks alot of utils
<midfavila> it's also not much slower than regular lint, even with dynanal
<midfavila> the downside is that the way that it works requires you learn a DSL
<midfavila> need to manually annotate regions for checking to happen outside of static analysis
<wael[m]> midfavila: remove dyn from dynanal
<midfavila> wow that's so fucking hilarious and clever
<midfavila> original sex joke
<midfavila> *very funny*
<wael[m]> yes I'm so funyn
<testuser[m]> Bruh is this SPLint thing something that's been dead since 2010
<testuser[m]> send
<midfavila> last commit was 2021
<midfavila> anyway, the idea of a "dead" program is one I object to
<midfavila> well-written programs stand the test of time
<testuser[m]> Yeah I saw that repo but that's like 10 commits
<midfavila> 768, but what's almost two orders of magnitude between friends
<testuser[m]> 18 commits since 2012
<midfavila> and?
<testuser[m]> clang-tidy
<midfavila> i'm not installing llvm and clang just to lint my C programs
<midfavila> and, anyway, neither is an option for me
<testuser[m]> cppcheck?
<midfavila> if it's C++, it's not an option
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<testuser[m]> Should baseinit mount cgroups?
<dilyn> probably
<illiliti> my kernel doesn't have cgroups
<testuser[m]> if supported
<testuser[m]> only then
<illiliti> ok
<testuser[m]> illiliti: can u check the KISS chroot pr once
<testuser[m]> mkre
<testuser[m]> more*
<testuser[m]> I made a change to not rerun as root if already root
<illiliti> looks fine. do i need to run it?
<testuser[m]> No
<testuser[m]> It's tested
<illiliti> ok
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<phoebos> sad_plan: yea, I'm making slow progress :p
<phoebos> but they're POSIX, all of it, and no more
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<saturn[m]> hello everyone
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