01:55 <ukky> Does anybody have a copy of https://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-devel/2008-May/003375.html ? Looking for more info on 'Optional' field in Pkgfile.

02:15 <jaeger> Perhaps here? https://lists.crux.nu/hyperkitty/list/crux-devel@lists.crux.nu/2008/5/

02:18 <jaeger> I kinda hate how hyperkitty presents things

02:19 <ukky> jaeger: Thanks.

02:23 <ukky> This might be the link I'm looking for: https://lists.crux.nu/hyperkitty/list/crux-devel@lists.crux.nu/thread/2QQLNMN3NEBOYMKP2QYOPVFPWZ4EVGAU/

03:06 <Stalevar> Hello. Am I doing something wrong? I can't find CRUX iso image for 3.7, except some kind of unofficial one

03:34 <Stalevar> Also it's 1.3G, it's a lot. Is it normal? Arch image is only 1G for instance and CRUX used to be more compact than Arch

03:42 <jaeger> It's pretty large these days, mostly due to the size of linux-firmware

03:43 <jaeger> You can find the release ISO at https://crux.nu/Main/Download and an updated one at https://crux.ninja/updated-iso/ - it's built the same way and by the same person (me), just more up to date

03:47 <jaeger> I've been thinking about making a core-only ISO but haven't prioritized it

03:58 <remiliascarlet> Linux is bloating up really fast, and will continue to do so as it's continuing to take in more and more Windows 11 refugees.

04:01 <Stalevar> remiliascarlet, Windows 11 takes 40G of disk space when it's just installed

04:01 <Stalevar> So it's still a long route ahead, it is going to be difficult to get Linux system partition of 40G to fill up even if you just install everything you see from repos

04:02 <Stalevar> jaeger, ah, that's the first mirror in the list. It doesn't have iso's

04:03 <jaeger> The french one?

04:03 <Stalevar> Yes

04:03 <jaeger> OK, thanks for the heads up. We should edit it not to say full mirror, then

04:04 <jaeger> Perhaps it was in the past, I'm not sure

04:04 <Stalevar> I thought that CRUX went one step further and removed iso downloads since true Linux user has to build it themselves or something

04:04 <jaeger> Not so far, heh. Just looks like that's an incomplete mirror

04:04 <jaeger> ports only

04:07 <jaeger> Edited. Also removed the missing Iran mirror

04:20 <remiliascarlet> Stalevar: Yeah, but that's not what I meant.

04:22 <remiliascarlet> I was referring more to having to add all the useless stuff into the kernel to keep users happy, add lots of extra abstraction layers, add lots of bloated GUI programs which might only benefit Windows users, add even more things to SystemD, and all that.

04:23 <remiliascarlet> Windows is so heavy mostly because of all the legacy cruft it drags along, because there might still be that 1 guy who uses Microsoft Word 97 on Windows 11 for example.

04:25 <remiliascarlet> On Linux this shit often gets removed and replaced with something newer. On macOS Apple will outright ban you from using something old, and on the BSD's they will keep it alive as long as it still works.

04:29 <Stalevar> There are old programs which do not have any replacement for them

04:30 <Stalevar> If Windows can't run it then there is no point to use Windows, because running old obscure windows-only programs is only thing in which Windows is better than other OSes

06:07 <Stalevar> I wonder how does Ventoy work. If you select CRUX then it loads normally, but mounts efi partition into /media for some reason, however it turns out real CRUX media is available under /dev/dm-0 . I wonder how do I find out what driver does correspond to it

10:25 <ukky> Stalevar: You can try http://cruxy.ca/files/crux-3.7.iso (MD5SUM 1a9f9d5f4546f4853728dafbf0be3b8a), it should be compatible with Ventoy

10:30 <Stalevar> ukky, regular updated crux iso is compatible

10:30 <Stalevar> is this one different?

10:34 <Stalevar> jaeger, I also wonder why not to provide a kernel binary. Or just make one on the CD support SATA, NVMe and IDE and all common file systems without extra modules, then it can be used if one is lazy to compile

10:34 <Stalevar> like cp /media/boot/vmlinuz /mnt/boot and done

10:36 <ukky> Stalevar: The above ISO should mount /media properly when loaded from Ventoy.

10:37 <Stalevar> Hm, what is the difference?

10:37 <Stalevar> Anyway I have already installed from updated iso from official site

10:38 <Stalevar> ukky, it was confusing why it thought that VTYEFI was the /media but I just mounted /dev/dm-0 instead

10:41 <Stalevar> ukky, now compiling kernel. Though 6.6.21 is outdated

10:41 <ukky> Stalevar: The difference is in /init script. Original /init script does not find CRUX files properly if loaded from Ventoy.

10:42 <Stalevar> Do you have init script separately on some repo or pastebin?

10:43 <Stalevar> ukky, can you explain how ventoy works? That's what I'm wondering

10:43 <Stalevar> It seems that it's more than just grub with custom menu scripts

10:44 <ukky> Stalevar: http://0x0.st/XoCU.txt

10:48 <farkuhar> kernel 6.6.21 is not the most recent, but if you use the ntfs-3g driver you might want to avoid the bleeding edge kernel anyway: https://github.com/tuxera/ntfs-3g/issues/108

10:50 <ukky> Stalevar: It's been a year since I looked at Ventoy init scripts. Basically, it maps your selected ISO to /dev/dm-* device

10:52 <Stalevar> But how

10:52 <Stalevar> farkuhar, I am more about 6.6.28

10:52 <Stalevar> And even Slackware-current has 6.6.22

10:52 <Stalevar> of course non-lts kernels are not needed

11:32 <Stalevar> I dunno, is JFS really bad choice for the root file system or something? Every second reboot the root file system is stuck as read-only

11:39 <ukky> Could it be that it is not properly unmounted upon reboot? Some related info: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/JFS#JFS_root_mounts_read_only_on_startup

11:47 <Stalevar> Yeah, that

11:48 <Stalevar> but ext4 restores journal by itself

11:48 <Stalevar> On Arch linux systems with a JFS root on a partition under control of device-mapper (i.e. the root device is a lvm or a LUKS encrypted one), forcing an fsck can sometimes remove the /usr/man/man3/ directory. The reason for this issue is not clear, but the problem has been replicated [13].

11:48 <Stalevar> huh

11:49 <Stalevar> OK, I got X11 running but it has no DM or DE, only three terminals

11:50 <ukky> there should be openbox WM available

11:55 <Stalevar> probably in contrib or something? Not on main disk at least

12:12 <ukky> openbox is in opt on the ISO media

14:02 <ardo> anyone who built an update 3.7 iso image? Official iso refuses to boot a ryzen9 7940hs, black screen after selecting grub "install" option.

14:02 <ardo> updated*

14:09 <ukky> ardo: jaeger builds ISO. What is your target device for 'grub-install'? And what is your target for grub-install, 'i386-pc' or 'x86_64-efi' ?

14:11 <ardo> ukky: x86_64, but I'm going to use efibootmgr and boot directly the linux kernel with efi stub, as I'm doing on this machine

14:12 <ardo> ukky: does jaeger maintain a repo with the updated builds, btw?

14:13 <ukky> jaeger has latest ISO here: https://crux.ninja/updated-iso/

14:14 <ardo> great, tnx

14:16 <ardo> just I hope the kernel is young enough, we'll see

14:16 <jaeger> Stalevar: you can use the supplied kernel if you want, just need to also copy the initramfs and use it, too

14:17 <jaeger> ardo: do you see any error messages at all before it goes black?

14:18 <ardo> zero, I press enter on the "Install" option and everything goes dark, forever.

14:19 <jaeger> Can you test by adding "vga=0 nomodeset" to the boot command line?

14:20 <ardo> I read something on the user forum tor this laptop, months ago, and I remember I thought "I'll have to rebuild the iso, the 3.7 won't boot", but I don't remember the details. I'll try yours that I'm burning now, as a maybe-lucky-quick-fix

14:20 <Stalevar> jaeger, doesn't the initramfs contain some stuff which isn't suitable for an installed system?

14:20 <jaeger> I have several ryzen CPUs but none are pro or 7000 series

14:21 <jaeger> Stalevar: kinda the opposite, it contains a lot of stuff not everyone will need because it tries to be very generic

14:21 <jaeger> But if you wanted to use it just to save time installing, it's an option

14:21 <Stalevar> I had a problem with grub saying it's going into blind mode, but I have fixed it by adding insmod efi_gop at the beginning of grub.cfg

14:22 <jaeger> yeah, definitely need efi_gop (more common) or efi_uga (less common) most of the time

14:22 <ardo> Yes that happened to me too, playing with prime and enabling disabling dgpu and integrated

14:23 <jaeger> I usually load it something like this in my configs: https://git.crux.nu/system/iso/src/branch/3.7/iso/grub.cfg#L12

14:23 <ardo> yes I tried everything I remembered on grub memu, ctrl-c, insmod efi_gop etc

14:25 <ardo> mine was very similar, but now I'm directly booting the kernel from efi partition, but that's not an for installing

14:25 <ardo> option*

15:24 <ppetrov^> jaeger, so the kernel used for the install boot media can be used later? is the .config provided?

15:28 <ukky> ppetrov^: kernel config should be in /crux/kernel/ directory

15:29 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: if the ISO kernel supports /proc/config.gz, you can just zcat /proc/config.gz > .config while booted. But as jaeger wrote, it's configured to rely on an initramfs, so you have to copy that too.

15:35 <cruxbot> [opt/3.7]: scite: updated to version 5.5.0

15:35 <cruxbot> [opt/3.7]: ruby-doc: updated to version 3.3.1

15:35 <cruxbot> [opt/3.7]: [notify] ruby: updated to version 3.3.1

15:35 <cruxbot> [opt/3.7]: task: updated to version 3.0.2

15:36 <ppetrov^> cool! thank you both

15:48 <jaeger> yeah, both versions of the config are available

15:49 <jaeger> The one used for install media is rather generic and may be missing things you care about for a final system, but should be usable as a quick starting point

16:19 <ppetrov^> great, thanks!

16:27 <ardo> jaeger: thanks for your updated iso. It turned out the usb stick was bad :-/, could load the few bytes of the grub first stage and little less.

16:27 <ardo> little more*

16:28 <ardo> new stick = crux installed

18:16 <jaeger> Cool, glad you were able to get it installed