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<unmaster>
So as a noob Linux user, it seems that "ports" are the only form of package manager that crux has, am I right?
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<ppetrov^>
yes
<ppetrov^>
you can create a repository of (your own) packages and use it with pkg-get, which tries to mimic prt-get, but for precompiled packages
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<ppetrov^>
unmaster, yes, you are right
<unmaster>
And from what I understand, if I wanted to install something like tilda, that's not in any of the port repos, I would have to make a port for it myself?
<unmaster>
Idk if I see the advantage of using this method of package management vs say something like apt in Debian
<unmaster>
Sounds like Crux is just more manual
<unmaster>
but to what end?
<unmaster>
Or wait
<unmaster>
Is there advantage in that I can manually add packages to the package manager in Crux, but can't in Debian, and must manage any unsupported packages myself?
<unmaster>
Idk, I haven't used either that much
<unmaster>
Linux in general pretty new
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<SiFuh>
jaeger: Just curious really, and definitely not complaining or asking for a change. Would it not have been nicer to have crux-3.7-updated.iso as crux-3.7-YYYYMMDD.iso? Just a thought
<SiFuh>
And check out the man pages as well. It is pretty simple.
<unmaster>
well, yeah but since the result of the compilation is permanent, then there's no reason to create a temporary work directory.
<unmaster>
so why does it create a work directory?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: is their any documentation that actually explains what pkgmk is actually doing? Such as when you compile it creates a work directory and extracts the archive and builds it in work/src/ and then installs to work/pkg then creates a the port and removes the work directory?
<SiFuh>
unmaster: it is not permanent though. The archive downloads. Then a work directory is created. Then the archive is extracted to work/src/. Then it is compiled in work/src/. After it installs the built port into work/pkg. Then work/pkg is tarballed up. Then it removes all of work/{src,pkg} to clean up. Then you or it can install the tarball of that built port into your system.
<SiFuh>
You will now have two or more archives depending in your ports/<repo>/<portname>/ folder. One being the downloaded archive and the other being the port you just built.
<unmaster>
so the downloaded pkg tar is the source code, and the reg tar is the compiled version?
<SiFuh>
Something like that. We have a "#" in the CRUX built port.
<unmaster>
Wait a minute, hold on
<unmaster>
I think I just realized something
<unmaster>
#1: I'm stupid
<unmaster>
#2: I haven't been thinking about compilation correctly
<SiFuh>
Downloaded archive = gawk-3.1.5.tar.bz2. CRUX compiled and packaged port = gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz
<unmaster>
I realize now, that when you compile the source, the compiler actually writes all the results to different files, which takes up space. This is done in the work directory so you can compress and archive it, thus reducing the amount of space consumed. This is done in a temporary work folder, so that the compiled files can be expedited to the rest of the system, and the rest of the files that weren't zipped can be deleted along with the work
<unmaster>
directory, right?
<unmaster>
So does that mean everytime you run a program, Crux has to unzip it just before it runs?
<SiFuh>
No and no
<unmaster>
what?
<SiFuh>
It doesn't get expidited to the system. It gets packaged up
<unmaster>
..and transfered to the port directory?
<SiFuh>
So you download this gawk-3.1.5.tar.bz2. and compiled it using pkgmk or prt-get and it will build it in a temporary folder and install it to ANOTHER temporary folder. Then archive the installed temporary folder and creates this -> gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz
<SiFuh>
You can then install -> gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz this into your system either automatically or manually
<unmaster>
building is different from compiling?
<SiFuh>
Same thing
<unmaster>
Okay so step by step:
<unmaster>
#1 gawk-3.1.5.tar.bz2 is downloaded
<unmaster>
#2 /work/src is created
<SiFuh>
Yes to /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/
<SiFuh>
/usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/{src,pkg} are created
<unmaster>
ok
<SiFuh>
gawk-3.1.5.tar.bz2 is then extracted to /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/src/gawk-3.1.5
<SiFuh>
Then /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/src/gawk-3.1.5/* is compiled.
<SiFuh>
Then /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/src/gawk-3.1.5/* is installed to /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/pkg/
<SiFuh>
Then everything installed under /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/work/pkg/ is then archived up into a CRUX ports package named /usr/ports/<repo>/gawk/gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz
<SiFuh>
Then then the contents of gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz can/are installed into your CRUX system
<SiFuh>
You can now uninstall it, install it, or reinstall it if you so desire
<unmaster>
So after gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz gets generated, Crux unpacks and copies it over to /sbin or wherever. Then it generates gawk#3.1.5-3.tar.gz so you can share it with your friends?
<unmaster>
or rather makes a ".pkg" less tarball
<SiFuh>
So after gawk#3.1.5-3.pkg.tar.gz gets generated, Crux unpacks and copies it over to /sbin or wherever. Then you can share it with your friends or keep it for another install.
<unmaster>
yes
<unmaster>
That is correct
<SiFuh>
I have an external drive that I mount as /usr/ports/ and everything is compiled on it. I can then umount it and mount it on another machine "PROVIDED" they are similar builds/install/versions and install on the other machines.
<unmaster>
Oh, like dot files
<unmaster>
idk though
<unmaster>
When I was using Gentoo it seemed like it took a lot longer to compile things than it does on crux
<unmaster>
Prob just cause I'm still setting things up
<SiFuh>
That's because the port maintainer doesn't use every known possible dependancy to man.
<unmaster>
Don't you have to use all a package's dependancies?
<unmaster>
cause they can't function without them?
<SiFuh>
This is what it could be but doesn't need to be
<unmaster>
holy crap
<unmaster>
what do you mean could be?
<unmaster>
I thought dependancies were absolute
<unmaster>
like when a mobile game tells you you must have wifi to play it
<SiFuh>
No, many are optional
<unmaster>
why include them then?
<SiFuh>
Maintainers tend to only use that which 'they' require or like
<unmaster>
oh
<unmaster>
So to be a good maintainer you should keep it as light and minimal as possible
<unmaster>
I see
<SiFuh>
Also some ports may not have a dependency added in the Pkgfile, but during build it will see you have it and therefore it could automatically include it. Then you could get a NEW in the footprint. We usually ignore NEW.
<SiFuh>
unmaster: Keep it clean and neat and remove all the uneeded garbage. But you can add whatever dependencies you want. It's your port.
<SiFuh>
[unmaster> why include them then? <-- Bonus or extra features. Not every feature is needed by everyone.
<unmaster>
btw how do you reply to someone's message directly?
<unmaster>
never used IRC before
<unmaster>
Discord has been my mistress
<SiFuh>
start to type their name and press tab in IRSSI, should autocomplete.
<unmaster>
SiFuh, like this?
<SiFuh>
Yep
<unmaster>
Did it highlight it in green for you?
<SiFuh>
Your name lights up in yellow in my configuration now.
<SiFuh>
Old school. Still using Midnight Commander. It has the same style theme and CMUS is using the same styled theme. Emacs is using the same styled theme.
<unmaster>
I just have plain old uncustomized hexchat
<unmaster>
Just got it today babee
<SiFuh>
Probably been using the same style of themes with some minor tweaks here and there for almost 20 years
<unmaster>
Don't you get bored?
<unmaster>
Of black?
<SiFuh>
Nope
<unmaster>
wow
<unmaster>
I've been distro hoping so much I haven't riced much of my settup
<unmaster>
I litterally just downloaded picom, nitrogen, and tilda in Gentoo and decided to look for a harder distro
<SiFuh>
I was doing that today. I want to make an NFS server. After trying a few OSs and systems, you will never guess what distro I chose!
<unmaster>
Red star os
<SiFuh>
I have that here
<unmaster>
Actually?
<SiFuh>
Yes
<SiFuh>
And Astra Linux
<SiFuh>
I chose CRUX for the NFS server
<unmaster>
NFS standing for .. Network File Storage?
<unmaster>
like a NAS?
<SiFuh>
RFC 1094 and RFC 1813 NFS: Network File System Protocol specification, March 1989
<unmaster>
wait I was right
<unmaster>
let me consult le google
<SiFuh>
Heh
<unmaster>
wait so
<unmaster>
you can access files from any computer that interfaces with the NFS?
<SiFuh>
If configured. You can do similar with SSHFS also
<unmaster>
He is going to read that entire manual right now
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: That's cool
<SiFuh>
unmaster: bruh why heaps better than each person having a printer, or unplugging and moving a printer. Or having a printer on a winshit machine that crashes for no reason at all and no one can print untill someone fixes it. The printer serves 10 people (Including me)
<unmaster>
SiFuh, you have a print server for one printer?
<SiFuh>
Yep and more than 10 clients that share it
<unmaster>
but
<unmaster>
The printer can interface with all 10 clients, can't it?
<SiFuh>
Nope, hence the print server
<SiFuh>
It is a USB printer
<unmaster>
oh
<unmaster>
I see then
<unmaster>
Printers are odd
<unmaster>
and a scam
<unmaster>
I tried to print out something in regular black ink
<unmaster>
I told me there was no black ink, and then printed out an even log in color
<unmaster>
like bruh
<SiFuh>
I know, that is why I love my KX-P1121
<unmaster>
Wait a moment
<unmaster>
Is that a printer
<unmaster>
that uses a typewriter ribbon?
<SiFuh>
Yep. Panasonic
<unmaster>
Bruh
<unmaster>
That's so much easier
<SiFuh>
And the ink is cheaper
<unmaster>
and they're about 50 a unit on ebay
<SiFuh>
Less than 80 cents for the ink
<SiFuh>
Slow, noisey, can pipe syslog through it. No fancy pictures
<unmaster>
Wait, but that's a serial port on the back of it
<unmaster>
are you adapting that to usb?
<SiFuh>
yes
<SiFuh>
But that printer is for me
<SiFuh>
It isn't the printer on the print server
<unmaster>
ah man
<unmaster>
I didn't even know printers like this existed
<unmaster>
so cool
<unmaster>
reminds of that ibm selectric I want
<SiFuh>
Yeah her company was throwing out old tech and she asked me if I wanted anything. I said very loudly _If there is a line printer do not throw it, I want it_ then she said she had one and I didn't beleive her and she brought home and I was like in love.
<unmaster>
You only wanted the printer?
<unmaster>
I would've taken everything I saw
<unmaster>
likely
<SiFuh>
When I worked for Khon Kaen University I had my OpenBSD proxy server send the logs through it. Prints on the fly. You can hack log entires but you can't hack printed logs
<unmaster>
Oh I have fun question for you
<unmaster>
What keyboard are you using right now?
<SiFuh>
unmaster: Yes 'OLD' tech. But I have everything. But the only thing I cared about was a line printer.
<SiFuh>
Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 850
<unmaster>
Why tho
<unmaster>
It looks cheap and membranic
<SiFuh>
It's the only keyboard I haven't aggressively smashed in my life because it failed on me
<unmaster>
?
<unmaster>
ok
<SiFuh>
It never fails on me
<unmaster>
weirdo
<unmaster>
just get a mech keeb like the rest of us
<SiFuh>
My wife was replacing keyboards all the time. They'd fail so I'd send them flying.
<unmaster>
ok,ok,ok
<unmaster>
hear me out
<unmaster>
Hotswappable
<unmaster>
switches
<unmaster>
=
<unmaster>
eas
<unmaster>
fixes
<unmaster>
*easy*
<SiFuh>
So I told her that in Australia I have the MS 850 and I have never smashed it. So she found one for me and gave to me.
<unmaster>
ok then
<unmaster>
What pointing device are you using?
<SiFuh>
unmaster: I have the keys already. I just never got 'round to buying the board. I was looking at the Cherry MX design your own thing that jaeger has.
<SiFuh>
Microsoft Wireless Mouse 1000 that comes with the MS 850 keyboard
<unmaster>
oh
<unmaster>
few
<SiFuh>
For the laptop I use the Rii X8+
<unmaster>
I thought you were gonna tell me you used a track ball or something
<SiFuh>
That could have gone on a single line dude
<unmaster>
Emphasis
<unmaster>
I laptop keyboard all that bad?
<unmaster>
*is*
<unmaster>
I'm dumb
<unmaster>
*Is your laptop keyboard all that bad?*
<SiFuh>
Nah just the track pad sucks
<SiFuh>
Besides, I don't like to be that close to the computer
<unmaster>
makes sense
<unmaster>
I myself just got a thinkpad
<unmaster>
Love the nipple
<unmaster>
What's your laptop
<SiFuh>
I like Thinkpads.
<SiFuh>
MSI something
<unmaster>
This is my first thinkpad, bought it off ebay, but the battery's toasted, so I need to buy a replacement
<SiFuh>
Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. Delta 15 A5EFK
<unmaster>
Ooh
<unmaster>
light up keyboard
<SiFuh>
Hate it
<unmaster>
hah, why??
<SiFuh>
My Metabox P650RS-G is better
<SiFuh>
But it is almost dead
<unmaster>
I've never heard of Metabox before
<unmaster>
Oh
<unmaster>
they're Ausie?
<SiFuh>
Clevo/Sagem/Metabox and a few others
<unmaster>
I kinda hate thin and light laptops
<unmaster>
kinda flimsy and annoying
<unmaster>
not to mention the passive cooling can roast your legs
<unmaster>
I guess that's why the used market's so great
<unmaster>
btw
<unmaster>
ports should work with .git links right?
<SiFuh>
Yes
<unmaster>
kkk, currently trying to import Tilda
<unmaster>
Also which sound server do you use? I usually use pulseaudio, but people seem to think pipwire is pretty cool too. I need one for this system.
<SiFuh>
sndiod
<SiFuh>
I use OpenBSD for my main machines
<unmaster>
oh
<unmaster>
how's that been vs linux?
<SiFuh>
I have used both CRUX and OpenBSD since 2002
<unmaster>
solely?
<SiFuh>
Pretty much 98% of the time
<SiFuh>
I have other distros and use others but they are not on the main machines
<unmaster>
Oh, then have you played at all with Windows 11?
<SiFuh>
Nope
<unmaster>
good
<unmaster>
absolute garbage
<unmaster>
anways
<unmaster>
I'm going to sleep
<unmaster>
good morning
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<ppetrov^>
interesting talk...
<SiFuh>
I am distracted by jaeger's nfs port. Heh
<SiFuh>
Wish he had a nice readme with it
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<ukky>
Crux mounts /run in /sbin/start_udev. This is wrong, udev/eudev should not do that. Better place would be /etc/rc, before executing /sbin/start_udev
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<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: libsoup3: 3.2.2 -> 3.4.0
<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: unifdef: initial commit, version 2.12
<SiFuh>
I didn't have the patience to deal with it. Even the NFS website doesn't have that many RC scripts
<jaeger>
I think all you need is nfsserver, it starts others (from memory, haven't looked recently)
<SiFuh>
Yeah I tried then it was compaling RPC didn't exist so I installed that. Then it was complaining about portmap and it didn't exist so I went online and got a headache
<jue>
you have to start rpcbind first
<SiFuh>
I did
<farkuhar>
ukky: the start_udev script *does* test whether /run is already a mountpoint before trying to mount it. What you're proposing is as simple as inserting another mount command into /etc/rc, just after mounting /proc and /sys.
<ukky>
farkuhar: That is right, another mount right after mounting /proc and /sys. And eudev should not check if /run is mounted, just use /run if needed
<ukky>
Users with static /dev will not have eudev installed
<ukky>
Thus, with static /dev, /run is not mounted
<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: imagemagick: update to 7.1.1-5
<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: mutt: update to 2.2.10
<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: fuse3: update to 3.14.1
<cruxbot>
[opt.git/3.7]: libffcall: parallel build is broken, add -j1
<farkuhar>
ukky: the /bin/mountpoint tests were not always present in CRUX initscripts; it took a lot of negotiation to get them added. Consider yourself fortunate to have migrated from Gentoo to CRUX when you did; much earlier and you would have had to suffer through initscripts with no such safeguards.
<jue>
SiFuh: next nfs and probably nfsserver
<SiFuh>
A README would be lovely :-P
<jue>
feel free to donate one :)
<SiFuh>
I would if I could get my head around it haha
<ukky>
farkuhar: When I learn how to properly patch core ports locally via overlays, this will not be an issue. Right now I am creating a port for mdev as a replacement for udev, but it before I can install it I have to patch /etc/rc via local overlay.
<ukky>
What worries me is what and how to detect version bump of the original port...
<cruxbot>
[contrib.git/3.7]: r: build against curl 8
<ukky>
ivandi: Thanks a lot! It seems like this is what I need. Having local overlay and 'prt-get dup' features, I will not complain anymore that Crux does something wrong.
<unmaster>
had no idea there were modified kernel versions like SElinux
<unmaster>
what a cool idea
<jaeger>
Not I
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<ocb>
ukky: it's been about 2-3 years from trying to get selinux userspace tools work on crux 3.6.1. don't remember exactly why, but gave up after a few days.
<ocb>
let us know if you get it working, i would be interested in this too.
<ukky>
ocb: good to know somebody tried
<ukky>
my interest in SELinux is limited to headless router. Currently running Gentoo on that system with SELinux in Enforced mode.
<ukky>
It would be tough to setup SELinux on a desktop system.