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<SiFuh>
ukky: All the cooler boxes (Eskys) in Malaysia are cheap Chinese junk that don't work very well. Put ice in and close and 2 hours later you have a bucket of warm water. So she was looking for a new one or an electric refrigerator. I said "As cool as an electric refrigerator would be, it means extra space because of the motor and cooling system and would need to be connected to the truck. If we can find
<SiFuh>
a good cooler box that can last several days then it would be much more useful."
<SiFuh>
ukky: So she was looking for awhile and I said to her "You know those containers I use to store Vodka in?" She says "Yes" I said "Remember I filled one with ice and beer and 5 days later still had ice in it. They are not technically a cooler box. They are for holding hot food like rice and soup. They have much better insulation. Why not get one of those?"
<SiFuh>
ukky: So I searched and found the one I was thinking of. She asked "Square or round inside?" I said "Better to go round because there is extra insulation on the corners."
<SiFuh>
ukky: So we got this one. Tonight I will buy two bags of ice and put her beer in it and see how many days before it gets warm.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa_: We often get large dragon flies here in the house. The usually get hammered by the ceiling fan. Today I saw something awesome. It flew between the fan and the ceiling. Then it folded it's wings up and dropped between the blades and came out the other side unscathed and flew off towards the light.
<farkuhar>
When emmett1 built rust 1.80.0, the only new patch he applied (compared to CRUX-glibc) was to compiler/rustc_target/src/spec/base/linux_musl.rs; all further customizations were applied via config.toml. But at least one other musl-based distro needed to patch vendor/libc-0.2.169/src/unix/mod.rs too.
<SiFuh>
I sometimes wonder about you farkuhar. Go get a beer dude
<SiFuh>
ukky: 20:15 and added 5KG of ice to her 24 cans of beer, time to see how long it stays cold
<SiFuh>
No one here uses INTEL_TDX_GUEST?
<farkuhar>
I sometimes wonder about you SiFuh. Quit messing around with kernel configs and go get a beer dude.
<farkuhar>
Anyway, `zgrep INTEL_TDX /proc/config.gz` returns nothing for me.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I have a beer dude
dlcusa_ is now known as dlcusa
<dlcusa>
SiFuh, maybe that was Jonathan Livingston Dragonfly.
<SiFuh>
Hehe, or Manfred von Richthofen
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<dlcusa>
He was human, Jonathan Livingston Seagull pulled off maneuvers 99.999% of seagulls never envisioned.
<dlcusa>
Also, he was fictional, to the best of our knowledge.
<SiFuh>
But the dragon fly has more wings ;-)
<dlcusa>
And your dragonfly is not fictional.
<SiFuh>
I don't know if it is even alive anymore.
<SiFuh>
I didn't bother catching it or turning of the lights and directing it outside.
<SiFuh>
So it may have a serious migraine in a corner somewhere
<dlcusa>
Unfortunately, we can only speculate. Which reminds me, do you speculate in your trading?
<SiFuh>
Well it must be in a superposition state. Because I do not know whether it is dead or alive.
<dlcusa>
"According to aeronautical engineers, the bumblebee is to heavy to fly. But the bumblebee does not know this, so it flys anyway." --???
<dlcusa>
s/to/too/ -- I need to brush up on re coding.
<SiFuh>
|dragonfly⟩ = α|alive⟩ + β|dead⟩
<dlcusa>
s/flys/flies/ -- English is hard
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Yeah it was in the news back in the 90's "Scientists say it is impossible for bees to fly because they are too heavy" and I remember laughing out loudly because that was the dumbest thing ever. Impossible? Then explain how it is possible. The way the media had worded it was just retarded.
<SiFuh>
Better to have said "Scientist can't understand how it is possible for bees to fly since they are too heavy" something like that. Not just out right say that scientists say it is impossible.
<dlcusa>
Makes me wonder if it is still a mystery.
<SiFuh>
Speaking of the bee story. I saw an article but never read it in the news where scientists were finally able to figure out how they can fly.
<dlcusa>
Great, I'll seek it out when it's convienient.
<dlcusa>
Duplex comm has its drawbacks.
<SiFuh>
The bees made up for the extra work by stretching out their wing stroke amplitude but did not adjust wingbeat frequency.
<dlcusa>
And I must go dine with my wife--later.
<SiFuh>
230 times a second and depending on density of the air they expand their wing stroke
<zorz>
americans should eat chinese food :P
<zorz>
let support china:P
<SiFuh>
And hug a Chinese
<farkuhar>
zorz: How should I proceed on the issue of rust in CRUX-MUSL? Nobody here seems eager to help me build a working toolchain. Should I just install CRUX-glibc and give up the idea of feature parity between the two distros? CRUX-MUSL can remain core-only, for users who don't need a complete desktop environment (or un-updateable for those who do).
<SiFuh>
'tis because rust sucks ;-)
<SiFuh>
Oh we have a secure code... that is fucking huge. No thanks. I'll stick with Ansi C :-P
<farkuhar>
Un-updateable is probably too harsh. Users with more expertise in compilers and linkers might be able to write the appropriate patches and Pkgfiles for llvm, clang and rust. But if those users aren't volunteering to publish their ports and keep them updated, then "un-updateable" is the effective state of the distro for everyone else.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: easy for you to dismiss rust so flippantly, since you didn't volunteer to maintain any ports in contrib that depend on rust. But in order for me to keep maintaining ports like firefox and inkscape, I either have to go back to CRUX-glibc or figure out how to get rust working again on CRUX-MUSL.
<SiFuh>
I don't think flippantly is the word I'd use.
<SiFuh>
Do you need some milk and cookies and a pat on the back? Hahahaha
<farkuhar>
Another option is to give up my maintainership of all those rust-dependent ports. But that's not really a standalone option if I want to keep using those ports myself. In that case I would either go back to CRUX-glibc anyway (since the new maintainer probably won't consider MUSL at all), or stick with CRUX-MUSL and maintain a dup in my private overlay.
<farkuhar>
Maybe ivandi's use-cases are satisfied with the impoverished software landscape after eliminating all the ports that depend on dbus, but I haven't been quite as successful finding adequate substitutes for rust-dependent ports. Firefox and Inkscape appear pretty regularly in my day-to-day use; it would be challenging to design a rust-free workflow the way that ivandi apparently did for dbus.
<zorz>
farkuhar: moment to read
<zorz>
farkuhar... you know that i prefer glibc and as i said before if is to change c library i go to openbsd
<zorz>
i also prever gcc or tcc over llvm
<zorz>
clang is a frontend of llvm
<zorz>
so... you can keep a small core crux-musl, incase somebody wants a server or cli
<zorz>
but for desktop use better stick with glibc
<zorz>
sbuild in isolated enviroment with toolchain
<zorz>
prima balarina.... LGBTQ++
<zorz>
if crux had isolated enviroment and not fakeroot at build.. i would use crux.
<farkuhar>
zorz: Thanks for your thoughts. I'm leaning toward nuking my CRUX-MUSL installation and reverting to CRUX-glibc, so that it won't be such a hassle to maintain those rust-dependent ports in contrib.
<zorz>
but since not
<SiFuh>
TQ and ++ should not be part of LGB
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<zorz>
LDelaforet: 'lo
<SiFuh>
Delta Force ;-)
<zorz>
farkuhar: your choice.... i think is the good one
<farkuhar>
Delta Force without the C, though ... does that suggest support for Rust?
<zorz>
farkuhar: see crux-musl... like trump!....
<zorz>
hahahaha
<zorz>
the idea is good.... but the implementation of the idea sucks!
<SiFuh>
zorz: Rumor has it farkuhar is going to start a #crux-musl channel.
<zorz>
then we join,,,, and will help as much as we can
* SiFuh
made that rumor :-P
<zorz>
because farkuhar is an okay person!
<zorz>
farkuhar: is not gay like SiFuh
<zorz>
:P
<SiFuh>
Heh, you have no idea :-P
<zorz>
hahahaha
<SiFuh>
zorz: Black Mirror season 7 has been released
<zorz>
the other day, i was in voidlinux, and duncaen a developer of void, says i use systemd, and xbps is not so good...... and and and.... oooooooo okay debian:P
<zorz>
no time to start it man
<SiFuh>
Hmm is the beerman of void?
<zorz>
man in crux is only beerman.... over there are multiple beermans.... lost the count
<SiFuh>
Apparently port/package maitainers don't understand what a developer does.
<zorz>
yeap
<SiFuh>
zorz: Well I haven't been back after I had called them a channel full of wankers.
<zorz>
you dont miss much
<zorz>
in #openbsd you learn things.... over there.
<zorz>
nothing
<SiFuh>
I don't need a beta football team to wank. I have wife.
<zorz>
heh
<SiFuh>
#OpenBSD-Social is kind of dead too
<zorz>
farkuhar: I forgot to mention windows run firefox and you can substitute inkscape with photoshop :PPpppppp
<zorz>
eehh SiFuh ? hahaha
<SiFuh>
zorz: Or you can use inkscape on windows.
<zorz>
really ? never used this thing.
<SiFuh>
zorz: Been like 5 comments since my last system crash in OpenBSD-Social. :-P
<zorz>
wait to join
<zorz>
29 nicks
<zorz>
and then you have lets say void use it for server....... and where is the needsrestart of a service when i update libraries?
<zorz>
security update of a library.... who is going to restart the service.... myself? McDonalds?
<zorz>
farkuhar: which rust 1.86?
<farkuhar>
zorz: Yes, rust 1.86 is the one that's been giving me problems. I did manage to get a successful firefox build with rust 1.84.0 or 1.85.1, but more recent rust and firefox are plagued by failures.
<farkuhar>
My CRUX-MUSL desktop is still running firefox 136.0.1, that's how long it's been since my last successful build.
<farkuhar>
As I mentioned the other day, it might have something to do with a broken clang or llvm. My $PKGMK_PACKAGE_DIR contains two packages for clang#19.1.7, one dated March 13, the other dated March 30. Then there are two rust packages (1.85.0 and 1.85.1), both built before March 30. None of the subsequent attempts to build rust (1.85.1 or 1.86.0) have succeeded.
<zorz>
oooooooooooooooo
<zorz>
to complicated.
<zorz>
:)
<farkuhar>
I think I tried to rebuild clang with -DLIBCLANG_BUILD_STATIC=ON based on the error message from one of the failed attempts to update rust. But even this reconfigured clang is not able to produce a working rust 1.86.
<farkuhar>
Long story short, if the musl target has so many unresolved issues for llvm and rust, then I might as well migrate back to CRUX-glibc. Otherwise it will be too much trouble to keep up the maintainership of ports like firefox and inkscape.
<zorz>
SiFuh: something wrong with farkuhar and musl and rust
<zorz>
heh
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I think I did consult that repository for some ideas. I wasn't sure how many of their patches I should borrow, because the build failures all mentioned the proc_macro crate (the same crate that caused problems with librsvg).
<zorz>
librsvg is when i hoped from crux to openbsd
<SiFuh>
local rust_analyzer="rust-analyzer-proc-macro-srv,"
<SiFuh>
Is all I could find
<farkuhar>
I might pkgadd -u the older clang#19.1.7 (the one built on March 13), to see if that clang configuration plays nicely with the latest rust. I didn't see anything in the Void or Alpine patches that addressed the dynamic linking errors specifically.
<zorz>
yes man.... play with it :) We with SiFuh will analyze jpw Trump is uneducated and forgets who is Mao Zedong
<zorz>
Mao Zedong will screw usa
<zorz>
:P
<SiFuh>
zorz: I think you forget that China is also in a bad state economical and faking it.
<zorz>
truth
<zorz>
but.... are huble.... and team workers
<zorz>
in order to confort China he needs to understand, Mao.... and from where they come.
<zorz>
that most of them died
<SiFuh>
You do realise that Mao was put in by the US right?
<zorz>
yes
<SiFuh>
That guy was filthy. Rarely bathed. Used green tea to clean his teeth. Had to have his guards trained to remove bowel blockages from his rectum.
<zorz>
i miss my /url command now i run irssi in shell
<farkuhar>
IRSSI defaults to using a shared buffer across all channels that you've joined, which makes it more vulnerable to accidental cross-posting. If you start to compose a comment in one channel and then switch to another channel to double-check something, you might fire off your comment in the wrong channel.
<zorz>
okay
<farkuhar>
Another annoying feature of IRSSI is that the up- and down-arrows default to recovering your previous posts, rather than paging through the scrollback buffer. On a netbook without PageUp or PageDown on the keyboard, you would have to rebind some keys in your IRSSI config to be able to navigate the conversation.
<zorz>
pageup and down
<zorz>
alt+arrows to move channel
<zorz>
its easy
<zorz>
its same as firefox
<zorz>
where is this GNU boy from Siberia?
<farkuhar>
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to copy the features of shell command history in an interface designed to chat with other humans? Up- and down-arrows might be useful for recalling past commands when you need to run them (with slight modifications) in an interactive shell, but in a human-to-human conversation, we can get away with shorthand like SiFuh's asterisk notation, or sed: 's^too ^to ^'
<zorz>
farkuhar: change client
<zorz>
:P
<farkuhar>
Hence my dislike for IRSSI's default bindings of the up- and down-arrows. The program shouldn't be making it easy for users to spam the channel with repetitive comments; if anything needs to be made easier, it's the ability to navigate the conversation that came before.
<farkuhar>
zorz: You're the one who brought up irssi, not me. I'm connecting via catgirl at the moment.
<zorz>
irssi is good
<zorz>
but i have it screen in a server shell and i cannot use my /url command on SiFuh's links
<SiFuh>
Linux dero 5.15.55 #1 SMP Mon Aug 8 20:27:21 UTC 2022 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<zorz>
┌──[zorz@vbox]─[~]
<zorz>
└──╼ $ uname -a
<zorz>
Linux vbox 6.12.21_1 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sun Mar 30 03:01:12 UTC 2025 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<SiFuh>
I didn't know I had it running for more than a year. :-P Last boot was after it crashed for some weird reason
<farkuhar>
zorz: What's the relationship between librsvg and your migration from CRUX to OpenBSD? Was it just a timing issue, that you happened to decide on the migration shortly after you installed librsvg? Or did you hit some bug with librsvg (independent of my musl issue) that pushed you away from CRUX?
<zorz>
not exactly ... i was upset with building compiler-rt rust librsvg and so on
<zorz>
This is librsvg - A small library to render Scalable Vector Graphics
<zorz>
(SVG), associated with the GNOME Project. It renders
<SiFuh>
The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) conducted a secret search for Adolf Hitler in South America for a decade after his supposed death, according to declassified files.
<dlcusa>
Interesting points, farkuhar, re: CRUX-musl vs. CRUX-glibc. It reminds me of '90s UNIX vs. Plan 9 and then vs. 9front. How to agree on what to build AND use such that what is built is dependably usable (adequately supported). 90s UNIX and 9front depended on $$$ for devs for motivation to maintain.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I with plan 9 took off more. It's awesome
<SiFuh>
It ran beautifully on my laptop. I only removed it for the CRUX-MUSL build. Now it sits beside me doing nothing.
<dlcusa>
It IS awesomw but how many can use it as their primary platform and why not?
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Never figured out how to get IRC on it. But programming and web browser. It was fine
<SiFuh>
Oh and the 9fat filesystem annoyed me
<dlcusa>
The main issue is critical mass for adequate support.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: The firmware they use comes from ..... OpenBSD! They use the packaged firmware that OpenBSD has.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I think Plan9 was brilliant though. Shame it never took off.
<dlcusa>
But you can't get the OpenBSD guys to support a Plan 9-distro--they're too busy with OpenBSD.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: And you can run rio and plan 9 applications on OpenBSD, so why bother?
<dlcusa>
There are still Plan 9 users but insufficient developers.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I did find most of the users are quite intelligent. They know what they are doing. Their systems are built exactly as they want it. But they are not really helpful. They are on another level.
<dlcusa>
One wonders if the Plan 9 kernel can be as efficient as Linux or OpenBSD, but who can make it a prioiry to explore that?
<SiFuh>
9 Front's documentation is scattered and looks like a scatter-brain wrote it.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: There is a guy that uses plan 9/9 front on youtube videos. He uses it to write code for IOT devices.
<dlcusa>
When you're paying developers, you need paying customers.