<ixelp>
Fun with Lisp: Programming the NES - Informal Methods — LiveJournal
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<sweatshirt>
nteresting pjb
<sweatshirt>
is lisp low level?
<hayley>
In what sense?
<sweatshirt>
"Low-level programming is good for the programmer's soul." -John Carmack was used in relation to the above link Fun with lisp
<sweatshirt>
so it made me wonder
<hayley>
That doesn't really suggest any definition.
<Bike>
the quote presumably comes up there because it's about 6502 programming, more than the lisp part
<sweatshirt>
i guess level of abstraction? thats what makes a language low or high level right?
<sweatshirt>
oh i see
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<hayley>
There are rather concrete things like TAGBODY/GO, and higher level control flow structures too. But it's preferred to use the higher level stuff when you can.
<nytpu>
assuming your definition of "low-level" means "suitable for programming for a non-hosted environment with direct access to hardware" there are Lisps that are low-level but i wouldn't necessarily say Common Lisp is low-level
<pjb>
sweatshirt: note for example, how lisp has 3 different ways to perform boolean and bit field operations, while C only has one, with very inconvenient operators.
<pjb>
bit-* operators, log-* operators, and bitvector operators.
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<mfiano>
pjb knows his bit manipulation stuff. I'll never forget years ago when I had a simple question with how to do things in CL, he drew up a diagram to visualize exactly what I needed to know. Everything clicked at that moment for me, anyway.
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<Guest63>
Hello there, Do you exchange code snippets here?
<beach>
On a paste site, sure.
<beach>
For example the one mentioned in the topic: plaster.tymoon.eu
<beach>
In the channel, one-liners are common.
<Guest63>
Paste site is quite nice a thing, now
<Guest63>
One-liners in LISP, may you show some example, please.
<Bike>
just, like, a single line of code
<Bike>
(print 4)
<beach>
Oh, like when people want some advice about stuff like keyword arguments.
<Guest63>
Ah, now, got it.
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<beach>
So are you planning to show us something?
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<Guest63>
Yes, I do.
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<pve>
Hi! If I do (setf (macro-function 'foo) (lambda (form &optional env) ...)), then slime will show the argument list "(foo form &optional env)" down in echo area. Is there a way make it show the actual argument list of the macro?
<beach>
How would it know that?
<pve>
beach: I'd like to tell it.
<Bike>
i think that depends on your implementation. swank calls an 'arglist' hook that asks the implementation for the lambda list.
<beach>
Oh, I see. I bet that's some implementation-specific mechanism.
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<pjb>
possibly the implementation stores the macro lambda list somewhere, perhaps in the symbol-plist?
<pjb>
Try macroexpand defmacro.
<beach>
Oh, that's a good idea.
<pve>
ok, so is (eval `(defmacro foo ...)) an option here?
<Bike>
could be, although i usually try pretty hard to avoid eval
<Bike>
how are you constructing the macro definition?
<beach>
I see a (declare sb-c::lambda-list ...) but I don't know in which context it is legal.
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<pve>
Bike: I have something like a generic function called "create-macros"
<pve>
specialized on a class
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<beach>
pve: You can use sb-c::%defmacro. Then you can use that declaration.
<pve>
beach: Thanks, that works, since I happen to use SBCL. Seems there is no solution that works for all implementations.
<pve>
except perhaps the eval thing
<beach>
pve: Right, the mechanism for declaring the lambda list is implementation specific anyway.
<beach>
Sure, EVAL works.
<beach>
Guest63: That's a very general question. You can use any class as a specialzier, including CAPI classes. Also, lines 3 and 7 should be indented.
<beach>
Sorry, 4 and 7.
<ldb>
the first question be, is the "class" you want to specialize the real class
<ldb>
it would be easy to verify using #'FIND-CLASS
<Guest63>
(defmacro 'push-button)
<Guest63>
Error: syntax error in (DEFMACRO (QUOTE PUSH-BUTTON)):
<Guest63>
((QUOTE PUSH-BUTTON)) does not match (DSPEC::NAME LAMBDA-LIST &BODY DSPEC::BODY).
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell Guest63 about pcl
<minion>
Guest63: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<ixelp>
Practical Common Lisp
<jackdaniel>
I think that you lack some knowledge about common lisp basics, so I'd rather recommend to you starting from the book mentioned above
<jackdaniel>
otherwise you'll get only more confused with how people will try to guide it (because they will assume that you understand some concepts)
<beach>
Guest63: I agree with jackdaniel. If you are trying to define a macro using that DEFMACRO syntax, it looks like you need some more basic knowledge first.
<beach>
Guest63: Plus, your question in the paste does not seem to match this new error you are showing. So it is hard to know what kind of help you want.
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<NotThatRPG_away>
Guest63: I'd suggest treating defmacro as an advanced topic and get your footing in normal DEFUNs first. DEFMACRO is quite unlike most programming language macro facilities.
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<beach>
I think Guest63 left.
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<NotThatRPG>
beach: Overawed by our fine personalities and good looks!
<beach>
That must be it, yeah.
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<splittist>
Am I missing some fabulous quicklisp (or other) system for extracting text from PDFs? Or, rather: I would like to search the text of (pre-OCRed) PDFs and report (at least) the file and page that the searched-for text (or regex, or whatever) appears. Does anyone know how I could do that in lisp? cl-pdf-parser gets some of the way...
<_death>
by pre-OCRed do you mean that the pdf contains images? anyway, for extracting text (I need a few lines) I just call out to pdftotext
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<sweatshirt>
anyone know how to grab html form data? I'm using hunchentoot
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<splittist>
_death: I meant 'already OCRed', i.e. that the text has already been added to the PDFs (often as invisible text aligned with the images). I don't want to get the text out, so much as tell people where in the document to find some particular text.
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<jackdaniel>
sweatshirt: form data is usually send as post and get parameters - hunchentoot provides access to them in the request parameter
<jackdaniel>
also I think that the 'easy handler' allows to simply name them as symbols and some clever macro binds them to variables
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<NotThatRPG>
Does CL have a class of output stream that just ignores what is written to it?
<NotThatRPG>
ah, Edi Weitz has me covered! A broadcast-stream with no components.
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<jackdaniel>
(make-broadcast-stream), yes
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