White_Flame has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
White_Flame has joined #commonlisp
euandreh has joined #commonlisp
miique has joined #commonlisp
asarch has joined #commonlisp
<hobo>
in croatoan, what's the char for ESC?
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
asarch has quit [Quit: leaving]
asarch has joined #commonlisp
waleee has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
waleee has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
<Catie>
Is it not just #\Esc?
<hobo>
:O
<hobo>
i swear i tried that first -_-
asarch has quit [Quit: alice.]
<hobo>
anyway, thank you Catie
<Catie>
Any time! Glad it worked out
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
Catie has quit [Quit: heading home]
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
dre has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
miique has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
miique has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
hineios has joined #commonlisp
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
dre has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
gxt has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
gxt has joined #commonlisp
azimut has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
azimut has joined #commonlisp
dre has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Guest74 has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
<rotateq>
hehe i saw a video from Edi where he talks about the 2nd version for his popular math book and in the end "so also my book 'Common Lisp Recipes', more a reference for advanced users, the dumb title isn't by me, but the publisher" ^^
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
waleee has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
waleee has joined #commonlisp
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
asarch has joined #commonlisp
beach` is now known as beach
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<asarch>
Доброе утро beach! :-)
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
asarch has quit [Quit: leaving]
taiju has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
taiju has joined #commonlisp
Alfr has quit [Quit: Leaving]
notzmv has joined #commonlisp
Alfr has joined #commonlisp
karlosz has joined #commonlisp
semz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
asarch has joined #commonlisp
thomaslewis has joined #commonlisp
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
asarch has quit [Client Quit]
Oladon has joined #commonlisp
x88x88x has joined #commonlisp
semz has joined #commonlisp
asarch has joined #commonlisp
asarch has quit [Client Quit]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
shka has joined #commonlisp
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
qhong has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jealousmonk has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
Bike has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
tyson2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
torbo has joined #commonlisp
torbo has left #commonlisp [#commonlisp]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ldb has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
anticomputer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anticomputer has joined #commonlisp
qhong has joined #commonlisp
ldb has left #commonlisp [ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2)]
sloanr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sloanr has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
scymtym has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
sloanr has quit [Quit: ERC 5.4.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.0.50)]
Algernon69 has joined #commonlisp
Algernon91 has joined #commonlisp
Algernon69 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
perrierjouet has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Cymew has joined #commonlisp
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
empwilli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
perrierjouet has joined #commonlisp
treflip has joined #commonlisp
empwilli has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
aeth has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amb007 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amb007 has joined #commonlisp
lisp123 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
empwilli has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0]
cosimone has joined #commonlisp
empwilli has joined #commonlisp
loskutak has joined #commonlisp
pve has joined #commonlisp
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
nckx is now known as nckxmas
dre has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
Algernon91 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Algernon91 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #commonlisp
gaqwas has joined #commonlisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
Algernon91 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
heisig has joined #commonlisp
Algernon91 has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
makomo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<attila_lendvai>
what's the semantics of the :default-initargs of defclass? i have added one for a baseclass, and when i inspect the instance of a subclass of it, i can see it in SBCL's internal slots on the class, but the slot-value on the instance is not what i have specified.
<jackdaniel>
initargs are passed to initialize-instance, reinitialize-instance and shared-initialize
<jackdaniel>
they may but don't have to be used to provide values for slots
<jackdaniel>
(i.e you may specify an initarg is not not associated with any slot)
<attila_lendvai>
oh, the slot has a :initform, probably that's why it's completely ignored. thanks jackdaniel!
<jackdaniel>
I think that you have an initform in the subclass that you create the instance of, and you have a default initarg in the superclass's form
<jackdaniel>
but then even without the initform the superclass's initarg would not take effect
<jackdaniel>
(because default initargs are supplemented to make-instance that is specialized on the class, not as an after method)
KvL has joined #commonlisp
* attila_lendvai
is dropping a short mail to asdf-devel about this
<jackdaniel>
what are you working on lately in cl? (if that's not a secret of course:)
theothornhill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
theothornhill has joined #commonlisp
<theothornhill>
Is anyone else struggling with sly not popping the marker stack correctly when using M-. and M-,?
<jackdaniel>
I've noticed that slime shows an empty buffer if the slime debugger is popped from another thread, not sure if that's relevant
<theothornhill>
I can go to definition with M-., but won't go back with M-,. It just says 'at start of xref history'
<theothornhill>
jackdaniel: I don't think that is the issue here
Algernon91 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<attila_lendvai>
jackdaniel, nothing really, just holding off the bitrot from the hu.dwim universe. i'm mostly working on/with crypto stuff, https://www.ethswarm.org/ and Guix (i.e. scheme! :)
<jackdaniel>
I gather from the name that it is a project that keeps the planet warm? ;)
* attila_lendvai
is reminded of all the slime gems getting bitrotten in his fork. should have submitted them again to the new maintainers...
<attila_lendvai>
jackdaniel, hopefully helps recovering from the ongoing mass psychosis by providing an uncensorable p2p storage infrastructure
<jackdaniel>
I need to give another shot guix (but plug in there non-guix repository), I really like the idea
<attila_lendvai>
jackdaniel, it's a whole lot of fun! i've spent a few months on nixos, but their infrastructure for services was a pain to work with. then i moved on to guix, and i didn't regret it one bit. i've already implemented the swarm service for it.
<attila_lendvai>
jackdaniel, the scheme devenv for guix is nowhere near the slime/sbcl experience, but it's still a lisp nevertheless. on Guix even the init process is a scheme code (i.e. instead of systemd and whatnot).
theothornhill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
igemnace has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
theothornhill has joined #commonlisp
Algernon91 has joined #commonlisp
theothornhill has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
igemnace has joined #commonlisp
KvL has quit [Quit: KvL]
theothornhill has joined #commonlisp
KvL has joined #commonlisp
<theothornhill>
Hmm. I must be confused. Has never M-. and M-, worked with going back and forth between definition and usage? I get the same behavior in slime as well
KvL has quit [Client Quit]
<pjb>
theothornhill: it works for me.
<theothornhill>
How strange. Do you need to do anything magical in your config? I run emacs -Q with (package-initialize), set the lisp-inferior-program, then quickload my project. Now I can jump to definition, but not jump back
<theothornhill>
same behavior with both slime and sly
loskutak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<pjb>
M-. is bound to slime-edit-definition and M-, to slime-pop-find-definition-stack
<theothornhill>
Yep
KvL has joined #commonlisp
KvL has quit [Client Quit]
<pjb>
but the same behavior is also implemented with M-. bound to xref-find-definitions and M-, to xref-pop-marker-stack eg. in emacs-lisp-mode (probably also C modes using TAGS files).
<theothornhill>
Yes, and it works proplerly in elisp and all other modes that implement this behavior
<theothornhill>
modulo slime/sly
KvL has joined #commonlisp
<mfiano>
theothornhill: I had that start happening recently and I couldn't figure out why
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
<theothornhill>
I think i found it
<pjb>
theothornhill: I don't know about sly; you will have to debug it.
<theothornhill>
mfiano: are you using emacs 29?
<mfiano>
Yes
<theothornhill>
It looks like slime uses 'find-tag-marker-ring, which is obsolete since 25.1
<mfiano>
I use Sly myself
<theothornhill>
It is the same in both packages
<mfiano>
Best to raise an issue in both packages then if it is using an old API
<theothornhill>
Yeah, will do
<theothornhill>
slime-push-definition-stack should use (xref-push-marker-stack), but uses (ring-insert find-tag-marker-ring (point-marker))
<mfiano>
Oh maybe you can even make a PR then!
<mfiano>
Good luck, I am about to go to bed
<theothornhill>
Yeah. Sleep well
dre has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Algernon91 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
pranavats has left #commonlisp [Error from remote client]
<jackdaniel>
mfiano: weren't you about to got to bet 2h ago? ,)
KvL has joined #commonlisp
<mfiano>
jackdaniel: try having kids with a pre-existing condition of insomnia
shka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
theothornhill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shka has joined #commonlisp
tyson2 has joined #commonlisp
unixlisp has joined #commonlisp
theothornhill has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Algernon91 has joined #commonlisp
miique has joined #commonlisp
<unixlisp>
What is the value? (let* ((old (list 0)) (new (nsublis '((0 . zero)) old))) (eq old new))
KvL has quit [Quit: KvL]
cage has joined #commonlisp
kevingal has joined #commonlisp
<pjb>
unixlisp: (let* ((old (list 0)) (new (nsublis '((0 . zero)) old))) (eq old new)) #| --> t |#
<pjb>
(let* ((old (list 0)) (new (nsublis '((0 . zero)) old))) (values (eq old new) old new)) #| --> t ; (zero) ; (zero) |#
<pjb>
(setf *print-circle* t) (let* ((old (list 0)) (new (nsublis '((0 . zero)) old))) (values (eq old new) old new)) #| --> t ; #1=(zero) ; #1# |#
<pjb>
unixlisp: ^
<pjb>
unixlisp: nsublis as its name indicates, can mutate the old list. It returns a new list, but this new list is not a fresh list, it's a list that can be built from the conses of the old list.
<pjb>
(list or tree).
<beach>
I believe nsublis is not required to modify the existing tree.
<beach>
"nsublis is permitted to modify tree..."
<pjb>
Yes, I said "can", not "must".
<unixlisp>
yeah, beach.
kevingal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
<pjb>
That's true of about all the mutating functions. Very few are specified to exactly mutate. nconc is specified to mutate (using rplacd). nsubstitute is not.
kevingal has joined #commonlisp
<beach>
pjb: Fair enough. Just making sure.
<pjb>
(incf beach)
<beach>
pjb: Your first answers suggested that the EQ always returns T, hence my remark.
<unixlisp>
pjb: yes. nsubst is also not certain to modify list.
<beach>
unixlisp: So why did you ask if you already knew?
<pjb>
Yes, I assumed that unixlisp was surprised to get T on his system, and expected NIL.
<beach>
I see.
<unixlisp>
pjb: but nstring-upcase?
<pjb>
So indeed, a better answer is that the value is not specified. It can be true or nil.
<jackdaniel>
I was about to answer: probably a generalized boolean :)
<pjb>
For nstring-upcase, the wording suggest that they must mutate the string.
<pjb>
jackdaniel: which is why I wrote true, not T ;-)
<jackdaniel>
generalized boolean may be the opposite of true too!
<rotateq>
phoe: nooo, then you would see my bad code from some months ago and I know what to improve ... going from DEFUN to generic
<rotateq>
ah okay. from the metaprogramming entry i learned some things
<rotateq>
but on the site with calculating pi by arctans all other do some naive approach, i remembered an identity by Lehmer which my old math teacher told me about 10 years ago, to check if the identity holds
<rotateq>
oh nondeterminism
s-liao has joined #commonlisp
s-liao has quit [Quit: Client closed]
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
scymtym has joined #commonlisp
<phoe>
oh goodness there are *so* many things wrong with this code
* phoe
rewrites
xaltsc has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
miique has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
miique has joined #commonlisp
voltron has quit [Read error: No route to host]
xaltsc has joined #commonlisp
Guest74 has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
Guest74 has joined #commonlisp
<rotateq>
oh hm
<rotateq>
can be a curse seeing such things :)
xaltsc has quit [Client Quit]
frgo has joined #commonlisp
xaltsc has joined #commonlisp
<phoe>
I've seen enough bad lisp to be cursed for the next five rebirths anyway
<phoe>
and even better if I can improve the rosetta code page
makomo has joined #commonlisp
jealousmonk has joined #commonlisp
Guest74 has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
omr has joined #commonlisp
OlCe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
x88x88x has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
x88x88x has joined #commonlisp
<rotateq>
i hope in my next rebirth I'll be sent back in time to wipe out some big decisions in newer human technology :D
<rotateq>
phoe: you mean the rosettaboard all in all? :)
<lisp123>
rotateq: Can you bring back Lisp Machines?
<rotateq>
qwnavery wants that
<phoe>
rotateq: I only mean the Common Lisp code for AMB
<rotateq>
oki :)
miique_ has joined #commonlisp
<Bike>
the dynamic variable version involves a random number generator. that seems like a misunderstanding of amb
miique has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<phoe>
Bike: seems like it uses the RNG because SHUFFLE uses it
<Bike>
yeah but like why shuffle
<phoe>
it should be able to work fine without shuffling, it'll just always return the same set of values every time.
<phoe>
well, to introduce "nondeterminism", I guess
<phoe>
like (amb '(1 2 3) #'= '(1 2 3)) will always return (1 1) without randomization
<Bike>
yeah that's what i mean, nondeterministic doesn't mean random
<phoe>
yep
<phoe>
aaa, I just realized that I have a use case for &optional and &key in the same lambda list
* phoe
thinks
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
xsperry has joined #commonlisp
<jackdaniel>
(defun dafun (&optional very &key other optional keys &allow-other-optional-keys))
OlCe` has joined #commonlisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
aartaka has joined #commonlisp
Algernon91 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<phoe>
I gotta run now, but that's a quickly hacked version that should be a tad better and a bit more "enterprise-grade"
<phoe>
as for the obvious question of why am I doing it - I want to make a calligraphy of AMB for the next ELS, and I need an implementation of it that I can trust (as opposed to the current rosetta code one)
<Bike>
calligraphy?
<Bike>
as for test cases, i guess i'd just copy sicp exercises or something
<phoe>
oh, SICP has exercises for AMB? sure, that's a good pointer
<Bike>
i think it does
<phoe>
and yes, a little bit of pretty handwritten lisp stuff to raise money for the lisp world again